Bash Riprock

I don't make jokes about wives..seem's "clownish" to me...... 😉 Seriously, I figure if you can label someone you don't know, that you are also capable of taking the jabs. I'd be happy for some solid improvement....but I have no problem for him setting a different vision. He knows leaders tend to get the behavior they are desiring. I love his comment about his team going out to LA and play. That statement was for his team.

I lived in the Old Dominion for years. JMU used to be a money game for UVA and VA Tech. They were FCS and not a very good FCS program. Cignetti help drive them to become a FCS power then the jump to FBS. They've only been in FBS a couple of years at a lower tier, so not sure how many FBS big wins he should have. Bottom line, he has won at every level he's been, not to mention was an asst. coach at some outstanding programs. He knows the formula to be successful. BTW, I've been in Scott Stadium at UVA when they have had some pretty nice wins. Schiano is very positive about him.... https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/iu/2024/07/24/indiana-football-2024-big-ten-media-days-rutgers-greg-schiano-curt-cignetti/74488041007/ Well...perhaps clowns think they can recognize other clowns....

So he's a "clown" for trying to change the culture? What should he say...."we are here to start gettinh our a$$es kicked?" He's trying to change the mindset of his program. He didn't say anything wrong. And a former UM standout certainly didn't take any issue with his comments. https://www.journalgazette.net/sports/colleges/iu/ius-curt-cignetti-brings-brash-attitude-to-big-ten-media-days/article_67d6ba50-4ac1-11ef-83f0-f3d72d4d5baa.html “What stood out? Curt Cignetti,” Big Ten Network analyst Jake Butt said during his recap of the third and final day of the event. “That guy, when he talks, I get fired up. He speaks with such passion. “He even acknowledged it – maybe some people think he’s crazy. But if you’re in this business, if you don’t believe you can win, if you’re scared, find a different job. Indiana’s going to have an uphill battle, but that guy has won everywhere he’s been. I’m excited to see what he does with this roster because one thing’s for sure, he’s going to have those guys ready to compete every week.” Crucially, while Cignetti admits that he is trying to capture attention for his team with his comments, his confidence is not an act. He truly believes his team is good enough to compete and win games in the Big Ten.

Did anyone see UCLA HC DeShaun Foster's Big 10 media day statement?? Wow.....

I was just funnin'....Snider is a great program and I think about what Cathedral has done consistently over the years. Incredible! Lots of great programs. Carmel has been a top program for years, so not surprised by their win totals. Last couple of years have been tough, but what a history.

I do see the 6A team with the most victories over that period.....

That one still hurts. In OT, on first down McCoy carries to the 1 yd line. He's hurt and out. (already lost another key starting RB) Run Yeast behind tackle (not what he's typically asked to do) and fumbles into endzone. (controversial as sideline shots show he broke plain prior to fumble) Regardless, Carmel recovers and kick FG on first play. Ballgame. McCoy not injured, that ball is in the endzone. Football gods not with the Trojans that day. Close to being a repeat champion in 2016. Both defenses played lights out football.

Pike used to turn out some pretty good basketball teams and players. Not sure consistently as NC and LN, but some pretty darn good teams. Maybe former great Jeff Teague can bring it back. https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2020/03/28/indiana-basketball-pike-best-players-history-jeff-teague-courtney-lee-rj-hunter-chris-thomas/1620461001/ https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2023/04/27/nba-all-star-jeff-teague-back-as-pike-high-school-basketball-coach-indiana-pacers-atlanta-hawks/70108470007/ The 2007 Pike graduate takes over a tradition-rich program that won Class 4A state championships in 1998, 2001 and 2003, but has claimed just one sectional championship since 2020.

FB16 is smart...my wife would tell you that you are giving me way too much credit. Can't argue with her to be honest! Hey, its ok we have different views. Makes forums like this interesting.

Break through? They have as many titles as WC and Carmel combined since the inception of 6A. And they lost 2 title games to Carmel during this period by a total of 6 points. They also have more titles than BD over this period. Its not about bragging about CG, its simply an example that one doesn't have to be in the top 3 for enrollment be a state elite.

Explain why NC, who has absolutely been in the top 3 during this period has 0 championships in football, while winning multiple championships in other sports. I only went back to 1990...BD/Warren/Carmel has won 19 of the 34 championships for 56%....the others have won 15 championships (44%). That doesn't include teams making it to the state finals which is an accomplishment in itself. The 3 schools you mention have had hall of fame coaches, talent, great feeders, football cultures, great admin support, top notch facilities, etc. To narrow it down to enrollment and enrollment only is very narrow. Heck, Cathedral is a perennial power, has sent more kids to D1 and the pros, and can we agree its not based on enrollment??

If Saban were at Edinburgh, bet there would be a number of move-in's and transfers. Columbus Schools would feel that big time. 😉

Never said enrollment has no bearing....just don't agree with your weighting....I agree with FB16 that when a school reaches a certain number, higher numbers lead to diminishing returns. I also put a higher placement on other variables needed for success. You stated the big 3 won 90% of state championships....simply not true based on the data both short and long term. Never said enrollment has no bearing....just don't agree with your weighting....I agree with FB16 that when a school reaches a certain number, higher numbers lead to diminishing returns. I also put a higher placement on other variables needed for success. You stated the big 3 won 90% of state championships....simply not true based on the data both short and long term.

Perhaps its the "teacher" that is failing and not the "students". I provided you clear data going back to 1990-91 with all the state champions in the largest class, and it was not 90% for the big 3. Far lower...the big 3 (BD/WC/Carmel) from 1990-2012 won 53% of the state titles. That assumes there were the "big 3" in terms of enrollment, which we know they were not always in the top 3. Prior to the establishment of 6A, schools like Bloomington South won a couple of titles and had a 3rd appearance. LC, Fishers, Castle, Snider also were winners in the largest class. All "outliers" I guess. Since 6A, BD/WC/Carmel has won 63% of the titles. Fully transparent, I have a hard time getting enrollment data past 2017. I did find a report for 2001-2, but most of it is archives and it has to be requested. Do you have another source to obtain? BTW, WC was not in the top 3 that year. NC was 3rd largest. I know its much "simpler" to say the largest schools win all the titles. (or 90%) But its not that simple, and insinuating others are not as smart as you because they poke holes in your statements is simply lacking. I would agree...you could see them looking so much better on the field. Perhaps it was covid. Definitely something changed.

I listed those coaches is a previous post. Add Mark Haste to the mix. Coach Haste was 101-44 at Tri West from 1994-2005. His teams won 3 state championships with 1 runner up during his tenure. Mark goes to North Central 2006-08. His teams were 14-19 for those 3 seasons. Speaking of Streiff...I watched him one game at CG do something I've never seen before or since. NC was not playing well and Streiff was ticked. He called a time out, had all the players on the sidelines go out on the field and join the others currently in the game. He up/downed them all during the time out. Officials came over and he called 2 more timeouts and kept up/downing them. I assumed he felt they weren't giving it their all, so he collected some energy. Was wild.

Common ground...so a state runner up is an accomplishment, right? Those are certainly not limited to the "big 3" schools.

I stated some of those title games over the entire period were close, some were blowouts. And no disagreement, in some of those years, best game was in the semi state…that could be claimed for last year’s game. But should we just throw out the accomplishment of many schools outside the “big 3” making it to the finals of the state’s largest class? But looking back over that entire period, there were a number of schools winning the title in the state’s largest class outside of the big 3. 6A has been mainly 4 schools winning titles since its inception. Is CG really an outlier now after years of sustained excellence, or is it a trend given their formula. 6 state finals appearances, (6A only) more than any other school would indicate that their formula for success works, and with big 3 down over past few years (until last year) has absolutely seen the gap close, especially with the improvement of HCC schools. Preseason this year looks like some serious talent is present at 2 of the big 3 so I expect them to be successful. It’s been a few years for WC, just as it was a few years for BD until last year. Will be interesting to watch the direction of the Carmel program given the talented teams in their back yard.

Agree?? Source College Football Report tweet on X

You keep referencing 90% of largest class state titles. I am curious how you pulled your data together. How far back are you going? Because that is NOT the case since the inception of 6A. Since 6A BD, WC and Carmel has won 7 of the 11 titles for 64%. During that period, BD has won 3 titles, WC has won 3, Carmel has won 2. (played in a total of 5 championship games) What is interesting, a school in NOT in the top 3 has won 4 6A titles. (played in a total of 6 title games) I went back to 1990-91 season through 2012-13, (last year of 5A as the largest class) and I know that Carmel, BD and WC were NOT always the top 3 schools in terms of enrollment. I know NC was sometimes in the top 3 during this period with 0 football state championships. (a number in other sports) Carmel/BD/Warren won 13 of the 23 state titles. (57%) Overall 1990 - 2024, Carmel/BD/WC won 20/34 state title games for 59%. Some of those were blowouts, some were very close. But runner ups over that period included a number of schools to include HSE, CG, Marion, Penn, Lake Central, Portage, Evansville North, Homestead, Valpo, Snider, Bloom South, Pike, LC, Westfield, Carroll, Crown Point, Carmel, etc. Should we simply disregard those schools since they did not win the final game? Majority of those runner-ups are not close to the top 3 in terms of enrollment. Should we pretend advancing all the way to the state title game meant so very little because of their enrollment? Was Penn in the top 3 sized schools when you did your math to come up with 90% Did you include North Central the years they were in the top 3? https://www.ihsaa.org/sites/default/files/documents/Football Records Book_0.pdf

Just because its a PUBLIC forum, doesn't mean one should respond to every single post...especially if the post was in response to another person's comment. But hey, we all understand you can't seem to help yourself.... Hey, being positive...Happy 4th!

The response wasn't to you....you don't need to feel compelled to open mouth. The original discussion was that enrollment was the most significant factor in large class championships, and specifically the enrollment of the big 3. I didn't agree, and simply showing that recent records of 6A would not support that statement as well. Look, I know when I type anything on this forum, it will result in you responding....every single time. Perhaps its just for sport???

Not saying he wasn't a good coach. His record over 5 years was 31-28 and was using this period to demonstrate in a conversation on this board that being one of the largest 3 schools in 6A doesn't automatically put a school in the 6A championship game. Guess I could have used Warren Central's last 3 years under Kirschner (another very good coach) is another example. Since his return to WC, he is 16-17. Carmel is 11-9 over the past 2 seasons with first round sectional losses. My point being, the largest populated schools, while certainly a benefit, are not a shoe-in to win to the 6A state title. As good as BD was last year, they had to work their tails off to overcome Brownsburg, Cathedral and CG, winning each game by 3 points, the last one in OT that could have certainly went either way. Their excellent kicker certainly made a huge difference. There seem to be a number of schools in the Indy metro area (and outside the area) that are overcoming the size differential and closing the gap. CG has done so for years...others now are doing the same.

Was Jason Simmons not a good conductor? Barely had a .500 record in his 5 years there. Even with 4500 students.

Not deflecting at all. Your theory had to be the first thing on his mind when selecting the Giants....I'm sure all coaches "drink your theories like Kool-Aid". Are you going to try and convince us that BD doesn't have a rich history and culture for football, it doesn't have a sustained feeder system, that BDHS was void of excellent coaches, that awesome facilities doesn't exist, that Mann's development as a coach didn't occur through some excellent programs, etc? If its just about numbers only, then why did the program go 31-28 over the 5 years prior? Weren't there enough kids on the roster?