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Indian72

NIC 2015

367 posts in this topic

Similarly, no one buys into the absurd notion Bremen and Glenn are such important, valuable, rivals their admittance was necessary/required.

 

You are the only one who has expressed that opinion.  Everybody else seems to be respecting the NSC teams' desires to play each other.

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It would be interesting to get some insight as to why the growth to 13 teams?

What did the principals see as an advantage of going to 13?

If the Ad's were in favor it.

 

I could see the SBCSC saying yes for chance to win and money at the gate when some teams come to town and bring their fans.

Face is Washington -Jimtown  brings more people then Washington - Michigan City or Gary West

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It would be interesting to get some insight as to why the growth to 13 teams?

What did the principals see as an advantage of going to 13?

If the Ad's were in favor it.

 

I could see the SBCSC saying yes for chance to win and money at the gate when some teams come to town and bring their fans.

Face is Washington -Jimtown  brings more people then Washington - Michigan City or Gary West

But half the SBCSC don't play the new teams so not sure that logic holds water.

 

I assume we are talking about football here.  The other sports are mute except for maybe basketball but the fans seem to always turn out for those regardless.  Athletic departments aren't making their money on the Olympic sports.

Edited by knights1121
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But half the SBCSC don't play the new teams so not sure that logic holds water.

 

I assume we are talking about football here.  The other sports are mute except for maybe basketball but the fans seem to always turn out for those regardless.  Athletic departments aren't making their money on the Olympic sports.

 

Mute?  

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Do I really need to point out that Mishawaka usually is a conference game while Valpo is a game of choice that could be upgraded. Anyways, I am not one of the many complaining about Penn's schedule. Just wondering, kid goes to Penn. Great school.

You've been a non conference game before.

You are the only one who has expressed that opinion. Everybody else seems to be respecting the NSC teams' desires to play each other.

Heh, you think?

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AAA- I understand that.....sort of why I said usually.

Edited by Caveman
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Story has been consistent if you pay attention.

We don't want YOU!

And it's not just a football consideration. I've said it's a wash at worst for Penn in football, but it affects a lot more than football.

 

Well SOMEONE does because the NSC teams were added to the conference.  I guess Penn didn't have enough votes to stop it.  (If they even tried.)

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Well SOMEONE does because the NSC teams were added to the conference. I guess Penn didn't have enough votes to stop it. (If they even tried.)

True enough, but motivations are different for everyone. Some people have kids not to save a marriage, but just to get a bigger welfare check.

Edited by AverageAmericanMale
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It would be interesting to get some insight as to why the growth to 13 teams?

What did the principals see as an advantage of going to 13?

If the Ad's were in favor it.

 

I could see the SBCSC saying yes for chance to win and money at the gate when some teams come to town and bring their fans.

Face is Washington -Jimtown  brings more people then Washington - Michigan City or Gary West

 

Yes, The SB schools are going to benefit from having higher attendance at their games, and also the benefit of having shorter trips for away games.  Kids from Riley are going to get home a lot earlier from a Tuesday evening soccer game at Bremen than one at Michigan City. 

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What I have a tough time dealing with is in some sports everyone plays everyone

 

Certain sports there are division based that appear to be quality of competition (soccer)  and how they divided football and the rationale one may never know.  But I guess the programs with the consistency or some sort of make up the larger division.  They did not look at enrollment.  

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What I have a tough time dealing with is in some sports everyone plays everyone

 

Certain sports there are division based that appear to be quality of competition (soccer)  and how they divided football and the rationale one may never know.  But I guess the programs with the consistency or some sort of make up the larger division.  They did not look at enrollment.  

They looked at enrollment 100% with one exception......New Prairie.  They wanted to stay with the NSC schools so someone that would fall in the lower sized division had to step up and play the larger schools and St. Joe stepped up.  That's it.  The rest of it is absolutely by enrollment for football.  The athletic directors were calling the divisions "big school" and "small school" divisions before the official names of north and south came about (with the few exceptions that were gunning for Geesman and Shapre divisions).

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Hey someone remembered my Sharpe and Geesman idea. People really do read my posts. Never would of guessed.

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They looked at enrollment 100% with one exception......New Prairie.  They wanted to stay with the NSC schools so someone that would fall in the lower sized division had to step up and play the larger schools and St. Joe stepped up.  That's it.  The rest of it is absolutely by enrollment for football.  The athletic directors were calling the divisions "big school" and "small school" divisions before the official names of north and south came about (with the few exceptions that were gunning for Geesman and Shapre divisions).

Sounds like there is a little animosity, hostility, friction, antagonism, enmity, animus, bitterness, resentment, bad blood, hatred, spite (I love the thesaurus feature on my new Macbook I got early for christmas)  towards the Prairie.  Would someone elaborate a little on how this how division split happened and how it is all NP's fault.  Was it Radtke, AD, or principals doing to make the switch to the small division?  From the numbers I have looked at, they would have been in the small division to begin with... please explain.

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Hey someone remembered my Sharpe and Geesman idea. People really do read my posts. Never would of guessed.

The idea of naming the division "Sharpe and Geesman" were discussed by the conference  at length and the idea was voted down by the conference principals.

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Sounds like there is a little animosity, hostility, friction, antagonism, enmity, animus, bitterness, resentment, bad blood, hatred, spite (I love the thesaurus feature on my new Macbook I got early for christmas)  towards the Prairie.  Would someone elaborate a little on how this how division split happened and how it is all NP's fault.  Was it Radtke, AD, or principals doing to make the switch to the small division?  From the numbers I have looked at, they would have been in the small division to begin with... please explain.

Let me clarify my statement from before.  I could care less where NP is within the conference.  Being a coach at Clay we picked up NP non conference anyway so it doesn't really matter to me either way.  I was under the impression that NP would have been the last school in the large division as that is what was told to me by an AD, no not mine.  With 13 schools there had to be two divisions for this thing to operate.  We can all guess as to the reasons why the divisions were made the way they were but I am guessing no one on this board is either a principal, AD or higher up in the NIC that was at the meetings.  Could be wrong.  I will say that the size of the school had a great deal to do with it.  Also keeping the NSC schools together had a lot to do with it.  Maybe they wanted an even split of the SB publics?  Maybe they wanted more teams in the "South" division so that Penn could have more non conference and schedule all those "tougher" teams everyone has been clamoring for?  Maybe St. Joe insisted on moving up so they could be challenged every week on their schedule within reason?  Maybe they just threw a bunch of names in a hat and blindly drew them like they do the sectionals every year (sarcasm intended)??  I was not there so I am not going to speculate.  Bottom line is this is what is and we at Clay play 9 teams in the NIC next season and there is a pretty good chance we will draw one in sectionals too.

The idea of naming the division "Sharpe and Geesman" were discussed by the conference  at length and the idea was voted down by the conference principals.

Yes, correct.  Some of the people I spoke to who were at those meetings were very against this idea for whatever reason.

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Not sure why all the discussion on why NP is not playing Penn, or why the remaining NSC schools wanted to join the NIC. I can only speak from a New Prairie perspective, it was a great move for us ( at least in football ). The way the conference was divided was in the best interest of the schools involved, and gives each school a legit shot at winning a conference title. To speak of the "smaller school" division when you look at it, New Prairie, SB Washington, SB Riley, Jimtown, Bremen, Glenn, and Marian. All schools that have had some success over the last few years, but yet for some, didnt have a legit shot to win some conference hardware. Now I know what you are thinking, and NO, conference hardware is not the prize that we all shoot for, but it does help when building towards the post season. Speaking on post season success, this is exactly why it is a great move for New Prairie. Many years in the post season (including this year) we tend to struggle against teams that can do multiple things against you, and have the athletes to back it up. In the NSC, with the exception of the teams that are now in the NIC, teams would try and spread you out and throw the ball, but just didn't have the athletes to pull it off, or due to a lack of numbers, they would just run basic stuff to try and compete. Depth was usually their biggest issue, too many players going both ways. I had felt for years that we weren't preparing ourselves for the post season as much as they were preparing themselves. Biggest example of this in recent years, is when a 9-2 NP team lost to a 1 win SB Washington team. Washington may of only had 1 or 2 wins, but they were battle tested. So back to the original question, why won't NP play Penn? I believe it is simple to answer, Penn coaches are intelligent enough to think the same way we are, and that is , what is going to prepare us for the post season? For Penn to play any of the former NSC schools would not help them in the post season, largely due to the fact they we don't always carry enough depth to give them a game on a regular basis. Now would it benefit us to play them? Absolutely!! But due to the many games that we would like to keep on our schedule, including non-conference rivalries, it just isn't going to happen. Does New Prairie feel they can beat Penn? Probably not in our best years, but would gain great experience. That is why hopefully we will always keep them on our freshman schedule. There has been some games that we were forturate enough to make it back on our bus, and there has been some great games between us. As for what I think the new conferences will bring all schools are new rivalries, with increased gates. I will dare to bet that fans will be more app to go see a Jimtown/Washington game, then 2 quarters of watching the Penn Starters. On the flip side, let Penn keep their rivalries, and add games that will excite their fans. I'm not sure where I read that New Prairie doesn't want to play Penn or Mishawaka because they want to keep their "gimme" games, obviously hasn't seen our 2015 schedule. Laporte, SB Clay, Andrean, then we begin conference play......no gimme's!! Last thing I will say about the new conference is that I like it for football, worried about all other sports, but it's time to take it up a notch or get beat!!

Edited by npfb
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Not sure why all the discussion on why NP is not playing Penn, or why the remaining NSC schools wanted to join the NIC. I can only speak from a New Prairie perspective, it was a great move for us ( at least in football ). The way the conference was divided was in the best interest of the schools involved, and gives each school a legit shot at winning a conference title. To speak of the "smaller school" division when you look at it, New Prairie, SB Washington, SB Riley, Jimtown, Bremen, Glenn, and Marian. All schools that have had some success over the last few years, but yet for some, didnt have a legit shot to win some conference hardware. Now I know what you are thinking, and NO, conference hardware is not the prize that we all shoot for, but it does help when building towards the post season. Speaking on post season success, this is exactly why it is a great move for New Prairie. Many years in the post season (including this year) we tend to struggle against teams that can do multiple things against you, and have the athletes to back it up. In the NSC, with the exception of the teams that are now in the NIC, teams would try and spread you out and throw the ball, but just didn't have the athletes to pull it off, or due to a lack of numbers, they would just run basic stuff to try and compete. Depth was usually their biggest issue, too many players going both ways. I had felt for years that we weren't preparing ourselves for the post season as much as they were preparing themselves. Biggest example of this in recent years, is when a 9-2 NP team lost to a 1 win SB Washington team. Washington may of only had 1 or 2 wins, but they were battle tested. So back to the original question, why won't NP play Penn? I believe it is simple to answer, Penn coaches are intelligent enough to think the same way we are, and that is , what is going to prepare us for the post season? For Penn to play any of the former NSC schools would not help them in the post season, largely due to the fact they we don't always carry enough depth to give them a game on a regular basis. Now would it benefit us to play them? Absolutely!! But due to the many games that we would like to keep on our schedule, including non-conference rivalries, it just isn't going to happen. Does New Prairie feel they can beat Penn? Probably not in our best years, but would gain great experience. That is why hopefully we will always keep them on our freshman schedule. There has been some games that we were forturate enough to make it back on our bus, and there has been some great games between us. As for what I think the new conferences will bring all schools are new rivalries, with increased gates. I will dare to bet that fans will be more app to go see a Jimtown/Washington game, then 2 quarters of watching the Penn Starters. On the flip side, let Penn keep their rivalries, and add games that will excite their fans. I'm not sure where I read that New Prairie doesn't want to play Penn or Mishawaka because they want to keep their "gimme" games, obviously hasn't seen our 2015 schedule. Laporte, SB Clay, Andrean, then we begin conference play......no gimme's last thing I will say about the new conference is that I like it for football, worried about all other sports, but it's time to take it up a notch or get beat!!

Great analysis.  I think you hit the nail on the head in a lot of ways.  I personally am looking forward to playing NP in 2015.  They are a great measuring stick for where OUR program is early in the season.

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I have been told that St Joe offered to move up in football.

If enrollment wise was the only guide Riley would have been over in the big school

Both Riley and Washington (though barely) are bigger than New Priairie

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I believe the current conference schedules are for 4 years at which time they will revisit things.  Let's see what happens then.

Sure they will be some changes in non conference schedules coming for some schools.

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Having been included in one meeting early on, the division was split due to enrollment figures, with the exception of St Joe, they elected to move to the other division. But with the ever changing numbers in the SB schools, it may never be accurate, but that is splitting hairs. The conferences are nicely divided and fairly equally matched. Rivals are still kept.....let's move on and have fun.

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All conf teams are also picked differently in the NIC compared to the NSC... hardware + all conf picks = recognition = validation. Some schools didn't want to risk never having an equal opportunity at either... Which is fine/understandable, but it's screwing over a lot of programs in other sports. And there's where the animosity stems from.

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Having been included in one meeting early on, the division was split due to enrollment figures, with the exception of St Joe, they elected to move to the other division. But with the ever changing numbers in the SB schools, it may never be accurate, but that is splitting hairs. The conferences are nicely divided and fairly equally matched. Rivals are still kept.....let's move on and have fun.

Thanks for the insight.  Makes sense.

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All conf teams are also picked differently in the NIC compared to the NSC... hardware + all conf picks = recognition = validation. Some schools didn't want to risk never having an equal opportunity at either... Which is fine/understandable, but it's screwing over a lot of programs in other sports. And there's where the animosity stems from.

You are correct, I like how the NIC will handle All Conference voting, all the more reason to have a balanced division.
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