CoachMack219

1 hour ago, Goose Liver said:

It's like the mythical State Champions of the 30's and 40's... 

30's and 40's?!?! My Morton Governors were mythical state champions in the year 1965 here in Indiana. 😂 Inaugural IHSAA state tourney/ playoff was in 1973. 

18 hours ago, RegionFBFan said:

A lot here to respond to:

1. Enrollment is still extremely large. Your telling me that you can’t find quality players with close to 3,000 students??

2. If your definition of a good program is winning State titles, I get it to a point but this would imply all other 6A teams in football aren’t good programs besides those in the MIC as they have won every 6A title.

3. I was not aware of the Pop Warner situation. A shame as this was a very good program.

4. Middle school set up still leaves two very large feeder schools. Should be adequate.

5. Andrean, Mt Carmel and Marian Catholic have always poached and will continue to poach.

6. Agree Hanover benefitting the most with the growth in south St. John.

I think there is more to support or lack there of from the Administration. I’ve heard from too many people that there is no desire to be great in football from Administration. Limit budget for football to support an excellent staff is one example that I’ve heard consistently from these same people.

1. There are quality players walking the halls of LC and there are quality players on the current roster. Also, the tri-town community LOVES them some baseball. Do with that what you will. 

2. My definition of a good program isn't winning state titles but you do need to be competitive on a state scale, and do so as consistently as possible (Indy schools figure this out but we can't? LOL). There aren't too many programs at LC (or anywhere in the 219) that fit that description which is why being good is considered to be difficult and more often than not, the REALLY GOOD teams aren't from the 219. Sure, the baseball and softball programs at LC are consistent winners compared to other region programs but good is not always good enough. Especially not when the schools you need to "catch" to be competitive on a state scale are doing elite things, athletically speaking and continue to try and improve upon those practices. 

3. Absolute shame. When I was young they were the top pop warner program in the area by a mile. 

4. You would think, but one could rightfully assume that number 5 plays a role in how adequate the athletes are that leave either of those "feeders" and actually attend LC. Guys like Drayk Bowen (and probably some of his friends by default) for example who have left the LC middle schools for other High Schools would positively impact the LC football talent pool but those kids never walk through LCHS's doors. 

5. Yes.

Also, in reference to your sentence(s) after number 6, I've heard the same. 

18 minutes ago, RegionFBFan said:

I can’t figure out LC football program. Large enrollment, growing community, great facilities, good in all other boys and girls sports, well established youth football program and three large feeder middle schools. It would seem everything is in place to be really successful.

they have had some competent coaches come through over the years.

What is stopping them from winning at high level?

Most of your first sentence is false which makes the answer to your question very simple. 

For starters, LC does have large enrollment but it is not necessarily a "growing community" if we're going by enrollment numbers. At this point in 2019, LC's enrollment according to IDOE (for 2019-2021 reclassification) was 3316, fast forward 5 years and according to the new numbers LC is now at 2961, a 355 student decline, and I'm not so sure it will turn the other direction anytime soon because I believe, as Boiler mentioned, most of the southern developments are Hanover's district. Next on the list is "good in all other boys and girls sports," while this is true by Da Region standards, on a State scale the Indians have not won a state championship in any sport since 2012 and the only semi-state wins have come in girls basketball this season, softball in 2015, 2018, and 2021, and boys basketball in 2014 (correct me if I missed any).

Next, the well established youth program hasn't been so well established for quite some time. This is not your father's (or son's) Tri-Town Raiders (now the LC Buccaneers) and they have become less established over the years, sad but true. I'm 99.9% sure of the top Pop Warner programs around here the Tri-Town/ LC one doesn't crack the current top 5. The middle school situation is more complicated with Clark/Grimmer playing together and Kahler on their own. I'm not too sure on the whole dynamic there but it obviously isn't developing any athletes like our southern counter parts (CYO or Public). So while it appears things are in place to be successful, there's a lot of work that needs to be done to right the ship for the Blue Indians and not all of them fall on the former, or future head coach(s). 

I think the above will make the answer to your question rather simple, and if it doesn't then maybe you know something I don't. 

23 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Another question would be are they losing good talent to the following schools:

1. Andrean
2. Chicago Mt. Carmel

Yes. Have always and will always. 

7 minutes ago, BTF said:

Do athletic revenues justify these salaries or is it more of a tax burden? And I don't mean "burden" in a bad way. I don't think you can put a price tag on the development of young people. 

That's a great question. I'm in agreement with you as far as "I don't think you can put a price tag on the development of young people," is concerned. Which is why whether coach Gilbert (or others like him) is compensated via an ever flowing athletic revenue stream or a community-wide tax "burden" (we both agree on the definition of burden here), I don't believe it matters. I believe he is fairly compensated for the work he's done/ doing and that if more places around the state (and dare I say country) followed suit, they would in turn see similar success and therefore enhance the culture of their schools and communities. 

4 minutes ago, US31 said:

Tavio Henson is the primary Strength Coach at Westfield.  He is one of the best in the state at what he does, for all sports.  You will see him on the sidelines for football games as well as the bench at basketball games.  

That's what/ who I found and although I've never met or watched him work, his work speaks for itself.

Maybe coach Gilbert is just an EXTREMELY GOOD math teacher on top of how awesome he is at coaching football, warranting him the salary. 

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

Eh, there are more qualified Westfield insiders on this board that could speak confidently but I have noticed that many schools (Indy large ones are the only ones I have really researched) use the model of weight room/APE guy with a couple of daily duties sprinkled in. 

This would make me think that maybe Coach Gilbert was possibly the teacher in the weight room and the other fella (Strength Coach) the aide. Would make sense that a school THAT GOOD would spend $200,000 on their strength program and student-athlete growth/ development. Almost like that stuff matters.  

20 minutes ago, jets said:

Care to elaborate as far as Coach Gilbert's role within the school?? Dean of students? Strength Coach? That type of salary seems to suggest some type of Administration role I would guess?? 

You would think that much pay would almost certainly mean some form of admin role but the gateway website that @FridayNightLights used to report his earnings will list administrators roles (including Deans) in the "Job Titles/ Duties" section of the compensation spreadsheet. That leads me to believe that Coach Gilbert had a teacher's schedule and/ or contract as opposed to an administrative schedule/ contract. I have NO CLUE, maybe @temptation has the answer for us or someone else does because upon a quick search through Google, Westfield's Strength Coach is listed as a "HS aide" and he makes more than most (probably 80%) contracted teachers in the state of Indiana. 

Upon further review, I think Temp MIGHT have sold 'em short by not saying "top 3 job. 😂

15 hours ago, HoopsCoach said:

How much value is there in a 1A state championship after 3-4 teams in the class drop football or close all together in a 2 year cycle?  That is my primary reason for opposing 1A having only 32 schools.

If this is a legitimate concern, we could just utilize our brain power (decision makers) and write a clause or bylaw into the classification rules that would allow 1A to be corrected/ adjusted to always have 32 teams, given extreme circumstances such as "teams in 1A drop football or close all together in a 2 year cycle, (list other reasons), or otherwise." I was even kind enough to begin drafting the clause for 'em! Lol 

I'll be honest, one of my primary reasons for supporting 1A having 32 teams as opposed to 5A is the health and safety of the 1A players. Do we truthfully believe that it's "more grueling" for 5A schools with rosters of anywhere from 50-100 guys to go through their season than it is for 15-35 guys on 1A rosters, most of whom are playing all 3 ways? Let's give those 1A guys the extra week to get healthy before the postseason. Valpo, Merrillville, Whiteland, Decatur Central, and the like will manage just fine without a Bye, in my opinion. 

13 hours ago, tango said:

Has that actually happened where 3-4 schools dropped football or closed in a given year or two?

My initial thought/ question. I just decided to play along and attempt a solution for HoopsCoach's proposed problem.  

22 minutes ago, RegionFBFan said:

I still like the earlier reco with:

6A:32

5A: 64

4A:64

3A:64

2A:64

1A:32

 

Agreed (as I mentioned prior to my lengthy proposal post) that this is the simplest of solutions given our current structure. I wouldn't mind this at all with either of the sectional seeding styles you mentioned and the neutral site semi-states. 

1 hour ago, RegionFBFan said:

I just don’t think Indiana has enough High Schools participating in football to support 8 classes. Too much dilution.

i believe Ohio and Illinois have 8 classes. How many schools play football? I think Ohio has double the schools not sure about Illinois.

Illinois has about 200 more schools playing football than we do and you are correct on Ohio (about twice as many). As many people have said on here a few different times, the simplest of solutions to eliminate dilution, in general, is probably to go to a true playoff format of some sort (which we all know the IHSAA doesn't want). That's kind of why I just settled for some "dilution" by going to 8 classes in order to compromise/ maintain the IHSAA's equitable/ all-inclusive postseason system. 

11 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Am I missing something, why are these two the same?

 

3A: 64 Teams. Largest School = Eastern Hancock 377, Smallest School = Indianapolis Lutheran 267 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.38%

2A: 32 Teams. Largest School = Eastern Hancock 377, Smallest School = Indianapolis Lutheran 267 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.41%

 

My eyes went crossed eyed typing it, similar to @oldtimeqb while reading. Lol I'll correct it here now... 

3A would be... 64 Teams. Largest School = Knox 520, Smallest School = Churubusco 378, Enrollment % Difference = 1.38%

On 3/8/2024 at 1:06 PM, oldtimeqb said:

Love the enthusiasm, but my eyes went cross-eyed trying to figure this out. 

I'll admit, it's not easy to figure out and wasn't easy to attempt to figure out/ type out. Lol but I think I saw somehow/ somewhere throughout this thread that we have 312 football playing schools?

In all honesty, I wanted a much simpler solution than the one I provided but all of the other options I attempted resulted in a lot of the same problems we have currently (or a numbers issue due to fitting everyone into the playoffs). Whereas the class breakdowns of my insanely confusing idea (probably its new title lol) are more equitable for almost the entire state, short of the bottom half of 8A (impossible to fix enrollment differential if Carmel is the top of the class). That is why I added this extra confusing Open Division to try and eliminate some of the "heavy hitters" from 8A each year to make it more "equitable" for those other 8A teams that have never had a chance and probably still don't/ won't until the necessary changes are made in either their schools, communities, households, or all of those to compete under the current format or any like it.  

CoachMack's Crazy Idea includes 8 Classes and an Open/ Elite Division. The breakdown is below and includes how the playoff schedule would work. 

Open/Elite Division: Best 16 Teams in the State. Almost all will come from 6A-8A (FW Dwenger and Indianapolis Roncalli are only below 5A Top 16 "threats," based on my "model," and their own historical success). A first round loss in "The Open" does not eliminate you from postseason play, you will be allowed to rejoin the postseason in the appropriate class from 6A-8A dependent upon your enrollment. Prep bowl allows this with any open slots left, despite the prep bowl not being an IHSA "Playoff." 

8A: 16 Teams. Based on this year, there would have been 11 teams in 8A, and 5 open spots for Open Division 1st round losers, with the 5 largest enrollments (most, if not all would come from 8A anyways). Largest School = Carmel 5200, Smallest School = Indy Arsenal Tech 2500, Enrollment % Difference = 2.08%

7A: 32 Teams. Based on this year, there would have been 30 teams in 7A and 2 open spots for Open Division 1st round losers, with the 2nd and 3rd smallest enrollments. Largest School = Homestead 2408, Smallest School = Terre Haute South 1609, Enrollment % Difference = 1.5%

6A: 32 Teams. Based on this year, there would have been 31 teams in 6A and 1 open spot for Open Division 1st round losers with the smallest enrollment. Largest School = Franklin Community 1590, Smallest School = Columbia City 1162, Enrollment % Difference = 1.37%

5A: 32 Teams. Largest School = Indianapolis Shortridge 1159, Smallest School = Culver Academies 832, Enrollment % Difference = 1.39%

4A:  64 Teams. Largest School = Brebeuf Jesuit 829, Smallest School = Evansville Mater Dei 520 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.59%

3A: 64 Teams. Largest School = Eastern Hancock 377, Smallest School = Indianapolis Lutheran 267 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.38%

2A: 32 Teams. Largest School = Eastern Hancock 377, Smallest School = Indianapolis Lutheran 267 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.41%

1A:  32 Teams. Largest School = Cloverdale 283, Smallest School = Attica 160, Enrollment % Difference = 1.77%

Playoff Schedules

Open/ Elite Division: IHSAA Playoffs Week 1, BYE for Week 1 winners, Sectional Champ Weekend, Regional Weekend, and Semi-State Weekend (Saturday Showcase)

8A: IHSAA Playoffs Week 2, Sectional Champ Weekend, Regional Weekend, and State Weekend.

Semi-States on Saturday during Regional Weekend at Purdue, ND, or IU.

7A-5A, 2A, 1A: Current IHSAA 32-team playoff schedule 

3A-4A: IHSAA Playoffs Week 1 - State Championship

1A-7A Semi-States on Friday so the Open Final is a HUGE Event.

CoachMack's Favorite Aspects

1. More Football (for our BEST 16, and in general)

2. More State Champions (3 more per season)

3. More consistent enrollment % differential across all classes (1.56% average in my model vs 1.83% in our current format), but specifically the improved differential for our smallest 128 schools. 

On 2/20/2024 at 1:34 PM, RegionFBFan said:

IHSAA make these changes now:

1. Adjust brackets to 32 in 6A and 1A, then split 5A - 2A with 61-64 schools in each.

2. Seed the Sectionals. Either complete seed or I’d be happy with seed top 2 and blind draw on the others as someone suggested earlier.

3. Neutral Site Semi State games

4. Keep LOS as home for all Championship games. 
 

Thats all. Too much to ask?

I like all of this and think it's a simple solution given the current format. I came up with a much crazier/ complicated idea that combines a lot of different concepts/ formats (IHSAA postseason, IHSA playoffs, Arizona's Open Division, and Chicago Prep Bowl "relegation") into one. I think it's pretty sweet. Some of you may like it. Some may hate it, but that's the way of the world, right? Lol I'll include it in the subsequent post and will be willing to answer any questions you fine folks may have. 

In the 219 I know we have....

Lake Central at Providence Catholic (IL) Week 2 (3rd meeting, 16-14 Final in 2022 and 28-21 in 2022, Deep mid-class playoff runs for the Celtics in IL the last 2 seasons)

Arizona College Prep at Crown Point Week 2 (1st Meeting, Seem to be a good team by Arizona standards? We shall see!)

Hammond Central at TF South Week 2 (Hammond Central Won 33-6 Last Season)

Byron Central (Michigan) at Hammond Morton Week 4 (1st Meeting, BC finished tied for 1st in the Ottawa-Kent Conference - White Division, a tough conference in Michigan)

Hammond Central at Andrews (IL) Week 6 (1st Meeting, 3-6 season last year for the Thunderbolts)

1 minute ago, CoachDurham said:

Don't we already have a Sectional Meeting for each Sectional with coaches and AD's. Couldn't this be done in like an hour in that meeting. We are talking about 8 teams, not a bunch of different weight classes. It could even be done before week 9 just like the draw.

Seems TOO LOGICAL there Coach. 😂 Instead, we'll all say it's impossible to do, debate the best way to do it, and then proceed as is with the hope we avoid 1st round matchups like Ben Davis vs Brownsburg, or Hobart vs New Prairie, etc. There has to be a simple, efficient way to seed this thing no matter how you slice it.  

1 hour ago, BTF said:

I get that Iowa's offense is and always has been stale. I think it was his wording that through me off. At the end of the day, Carroll should be a pretty good team with Sullivan at the helm. Sure, the committed to a program that is least known for their QB's out of all the Big Ten programs, but three others thought he was good enough to extend an offer. 

Definitely wouldn't question the kid's abilities based on his commitment to be a D1, Big Ten, Quarterback. I've seen the kid's film and he is darn good. Iowa got a good one for sure! Wish him nothing but the best, as Temp said. Hopefully, for his sake, the new OC will throw it around just a LITTLE more than the about 60/40 split from a year ago (103rd/ 133 in Pass Percentage in 2023). Nothing too crazy, not saying they should turn into Hawaii (65% Pass) or anything but I think throwing it a LITTLE more would make Iowa even more appealing to QB recruits (even WR recruits), like Sullivan and others of his caliber in the future. 

18 hours ago, temptation said:

Not wanting to hijack the thread, nor dump on the kid but what is Iowa’s recruiting pitch when they have a QB on campus, lol?

Almost fell outta my work chair reading this. 😂 and @BTF, I think (why I'm laughing), ole Temp is just poking some fun at the Hawkeyes and the fact that they operate in 13 personnel and hand the ball off like 40 times a game. So how do you even say to a kid, "hey come play QB for us! It'll be fun!" with a straight face? Idk Temp too well, but I think that's what he was implying (at least that's how I took it and enjoyed it). Lol

36 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

C'mon. You have no idea why Hart choose Syracuse over Purdue unless he actually told you. Have you reached out to Purdue or IU's coaching staffs and submitted your resume to be a recruiting analyst for them? You seem to have it all solved.

I sure don't, that's why I gave you 3 possible options for why he, or any other recruit, may choose Syracuse over their in-state school who offered them early, I tailored those responses to his specific situation but you are correct, I don't know unless I ask him.

IU and Purdue aren't hiring at the moment, Ball State is though! Maybe I can go to the MAC, do well, transfer to the ACC or something, and go onto future success that way instead like Braden Fiske? Lol (another example not named Carson Steele)

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You can't expect a coach to work the Porta or JUCO ranks for only guys with Indiana, Ohio, Michigan or Illinois HS backgrounds.

I don't at all. They SHOULD, however, go get those kids from those states that they missed on the first time (Carson Steele's and Braden Fiske's of the world). Just like they should be finding the kids that those far away states missed on the first time too. It's literally their job to find GOOD players not mediocre ones. Braden Fiske played well enough in 2021 for Purdue or IU to say to themselves, "hey we should try to get that kid in the portal! He's pretty good and he is from here!" But instead, they sat on their hands, watched him stay at Western 1 more year and then he's on one of the best defenses in the country in 2023. Am I too mean to the Boilers and Hoosiers for their continued failures? I think not but obviously, given your position in the convo, you think I'm being too harsh/ unrealistic. 

31 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Especially given that 1) it's really easy to get live views on them and 2) the dollar cost to look and talk is tremendously low compared to folks from other states.

100%!!! How hard would it have been for someone from Bloomington or West Lafayette to make the trip over to Center Grove to see Carson live? And if you did watch him live, HOW IN THE WORLD do you let him go to the MAC first AND THEN let him go to the Pac-12 on the second try?! Were you even watching the game(s)?! 😂 Purdue and IU missing on him TWICE is inexcusable. 

41 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Perhaps Purdue and IU weren't sold on him as a Junior and were waiting to see how he looked as a Senior. 

Purdue had Mr. Williams on campus, twice, and didn't offer then Iowa did and then guess who showed up? IU. I'd be willing to bet that Hart chose Syracuse over Purdue because himself and his family felt the love that Syracuse showed them because why else would you leave the state and commit to a school with more competition at your position? (10 RB's at Syracuse vs 7 at Purdue) Why do you do that? Maybe you weren't feeling the love at home (from Purdue)? Maybe there's a better major for his future career after football at Syracuse vs Purdue? Maybe they didn't like the fact that the guy who offered him was leaving and a new man entering? What I do know is that I refuse to defend Purdue or IU's downright AWFUL history of recruiting and the tactics they utilize that has resulted in a sub par football product for the 32 years of life I have been living. Jeff Brohm had the closest semblance of a productive recruiting cycle at an Indiana public University since I've been old enough to pay attention. 

Also, if we're going to continue to feed off of scraps, can we at least start getting the Michigan and Ohio scraps?! WHY DO THEY HAVE TO BE from Florida, Georgia, Texas, and California? That is CLEARLY not working for us here in the Hoosier state. 

Purdue Roster has... 

8 Guys from Illinois 

6 guys from Michigan 

4 guys from Ohio 

18 guys total from our border states not including Kentucky but yet has...

24 guys total from Texas, Florida, and California combined

Meanwhile, Ohio State (a well known real NATIONAL recruiter) has 54 Ohio-born players on their roster compared to 36 guys from Purdue (32 original commits) and 38 guys (29 original commits) at IU. Having two schools battle for in-state talent can be challenging but when you have to go outside that in-state talent, I feel it makes sense to get after some of these Ohio guys that go to Ohio State and never or rarely play, get them to Indiana to contribute to the Hoosier or Boilers. Save the mileage, they're in the Midwest too. 

23 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

BTW, when did it become a bad thing for a kid to accept a scholly at a mid-major program such as the MAC?  Perhaps getting on the field as soon as possible may be he smartest thing one can do...while maximizing a free education.  Congrats to any player that earns a scholly!!

Definitely not a bad thing and honestly, some of these MAC schools are significantly better at recruiting than Purdue and IU, especially since IU fielded 14 MAC transfers (or equivalent Group of 5 schools) this year and Purdue had 9. Coaches are definitely trending towards utilizing the portal more than HS recruiting anyways but that doesn't excuse them from continuing to miss on the Carson Steele's of the world. 

7 minutes ago, foxbat said:

 

Wonder how much better/worse Purdue would perform taking a "state-first" approach?  It went 4-6 this year and its "biggest win" came over a school that finished 6-6 this year.  All other wins came over schools that didn't have winning seasons.  If Purdue were able to develop the ability and reputation for consolidating the state's talent, would they be any worse off than they are right now?  

That's the question that I think they need to try to answer. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Indiana is a HS football hot bed by any means but there is some serious talent and size scattered throughout the state aside from the insane amounts around Indy alone but yet our two public universities struggle to field competitive teams and effectively recruit our state. I feel like adding 2-3 guys per year from our state's top 10 has to be more valuable than grabbing the 50th,  60th, and 63rd rated guys in Texas, Cali, or Georgia, regardless of the vast differences in the Indiana and those specific HS football products. 

Quote

And, yes, we can talk about the Drew Brees days and grabbing Texas/national talent, but realistically, Purdue's only had four winning seasons since Tiller retired a decade and a half ago.  I guess the question is, how much worse would Purdue be with a heavier Indiana-centric focus?  The counter argument is that no program, outside of maybe big-state programs, can rise to national prominence relying on the backs of their state talent only, but it's not like the last decade and a half has Purdue mentioned in the midwest hunt, much less the national talk.

The Drew Brees find was 1 in a million and now it's the recruiting method of Purdue and IU that has led to their continued mediocrity, or less than. That becomes frustrating to see play out when Indiana talent is leaving to go elsewhere year in and year out. Being more Indiana-centric focused would be beneficial to each of these programs and as you noted, relying solely on in-state talent is not feasible in a state that (as I mentioned above) is not a hot bed for HS football but having only a quarter of your roster be composed of in-state talent (and often the wrong in-state talent) is no bueno. 

19 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

And I disagree regarding the "scraps" strategy. The scraps in certain states that Purdue and IU recruit will have numerous Power 5 Offers. Are you saying Purdue and IU should focus on flipping kids in Indiana who only have MAC offers? That gets a coach fired. 

And as someone mentioned, any kid from Indiana who should received better than MAC offers can just get picked up in the Portal anyways. But those will be few and far between. 

They have "numerous power 5 offers" but yet can't help Purdue and IU improve, based on the "well documented history" of IU and Purdue flat out sucking at football and recruiting prospective student-athletes. I would respect the "flipping MAC recruits gets you fired thing" but Carson Steele wasn't good enough for IU or Purdue, was for Ball State and UCLA though? IU also has an Indiana Wesleyan transfer on their roster this year. So that kid wasn't good enough for them coming out of high school but was when he tore up the NAIA level? 9 of the Indiana kids on IU's roster were not Hoosiers to begin their collegiate careers but came back eventually. Idk man, seems to me they can do a better job in some aspect to land these kids in the first place and avoid feeding off the scraps that make them .500 at best. 3 of the top 4 running back recruits in this year's Indiana class are leaving the state (Josh Ringer, Xavier Williams, & Jaden Hart) but don't worry, the 11th best RB in Florida is going to come save the day because their HS football is a better product... 

10 hours ago, Boilernation said:

Not really sure what you expect Purdue and IU to do. 

Recruit their state better. Actually figure out who the top players are in your state, sooner, especially when players and coaches are sending the film and building connections. Purdue and IU's pick off the scraps strategy of recruiting has and will continue to fail them. With the exception of a handful of recruits through the years, Purdue and IU like to feed off the scraps of their own state, neighboring states, and some nationally recognized football states (Florida, Texas, California, Georgia, etc.) but this strategy has led to mediocrity with the exception of a handful of seasons for each program over the past 20 years. 

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They're not going to out recruit Ohio State, ND, Michigan and any SEC blue blood 99% of the time for an Indiana kid those schools want.

You are correct, but they definitely won't do that if they don't prioritize their in-state recruits. I personally know two different Indiana HS recruits in the last 5 years that should have been Boilermakers or Hoosiers and ended up going elsewhere because of the way they were treated by those places (if they even acknowledged they existed at all). I don't personally know the recruiters of IU or Purdue that recruited those guys at the times of their recruitment but I do know that the families felt they should have been treated better by a middle of the road Big Ten program (at best) pursuing their son's who already had better suitors as far as football (and sometimes academics) is concerned. IU and Purdue should be rolling out the proverbial red carpet for these Indiana kids and their families, not indirectly telling them "we know we won't get you so best of luck at ND, Ohio State, Michigan, or Georgia." 

Also, I am fully aware of the NIL hurdles that IU and Purdue will now have to compete with as well but truthfully, if they did a better job recruiting prior to NIL, they may have more NIL money to use now a days. 🤷‍♂️ 

24 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

They had some help with that. 

Nothing like the ole incomplete 3 feet in bounds calls. 🙄 lol

ALMOST as bad of a call as the 2009 Warren Central vs Carmel 5A State Final where the Warren Central WR was forced out of the end zone (called complete) by the Carmel DB (was out of bounds by about 2 yards) and the refs ruled it a catch (tying the game) and then Warren won in Double OT. The '09 call is obviously worse as it impacted the outcome of a HUGE game but this catch ruled a no catch last Saturday was egregiously bad.