First_Backer_Inside
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Posts posted by First_Backer_Inside
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3 hours ago, Trojan67 said:
Knox at Winamac
Again, not much talk from either camp about who is bringing what to the table. Is Winamac going to be the dark horse and come out and surprise everyone? Should Knox be the front runner knowing how much they lost from last season? I'm going to leave that up to fate and am going with Knox 28 Winamac 21.
Got to see Winamac when we scrimmaged them last week. Still trying to figure it out on offense, but the defense is solid. Very physical with good size up front. They have a skilled position guy or two that can make people miss and enough speed to find the end zone. I think this one will be closer than people think it will be. From what I heard Knox didn't look great in their scrimmage. Not sure if they had some guys banged up or what. I know they lost more than people thought they did to graduation last year, especially some really good lineman.
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1 hour ago, foxbat said:
It's likely that they may have had injuries earlier in the summer. I saw at least 2-3 Knights that were not dressed for the scrimmage, but were obviously players and not just a student hanging around the sidelines pretending to be with the school yearbook. I know that Harrison had a string of 'em too leading up to the scrimmage. It'll be interesting to see if some of them are back before tomorrow's game with West Lafayette.
As for recruits, I'm assuming that's tongue-in-cheek. I counted 40-something kids on the roster that I'd coached in the youth program on the team and I retired back in 2020 ... plus four of the kids that I coached that are now on the coaching staff at LCC. The names that I kept hearing over and over again on the plays are the same familiar ones that I heard on Sundays in the youth league, some of them echoing back to when their siblings played too, with the exception of Gutwein ... but he played junior high ball for LCC about 4-5 years ago.
The recruits comment was complete sarcasm. I compared the roster from last year on maxpreps to this year and its a lot of the same names other than obviously freshman. Not a lot of players coming in or out of LCC compared to what I've heard about some of the other 2A north privates like Andrean and Luers. Although both of those two schools sound like they are losing players when it comes to transfers rather than gaining them.
A little off topic, but I saw LCC was broadcasting their first game this year on IHSAA network. Any idea on whether or not that will be for every game or just the first one?
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13 hours ago, foxbat said:
Saw LCC play Harrison in scrimmage. Defense looked pretty good. Offense is dangerous in the red zone ... shouldn't be too many missed opportunities for the Knights if they get in close. Metzger, the elder, doesn't have the same look as a Barrett, Mills, Munn, etc., but he's dangerously effective and dangerously able to sling a ball when it looks like he's trapped. JV needs some work. Word on the street this summer was that LCC wasn't as good ... opponents should believe that rumor at their own peril.
I'll get a chance to see West Lafayette against Harrison this Friday and will have thoughts on the comparisons and implications for the HC.
They didn't look great in some of the scrimmages from what I saw, but also looked like they had a lot of studs on the sidelines dealing with some injuries over the summer. They are well coached so not surprised they have made big improvements from summer just to the scrimmage.
Maybe they got a bunch of stud recruits that came through after the 11 on 11 summer to the scrimmage! 😉
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Benton Central @ Delphi
Kankakee Valley @ Rensselaer
Lapel @ Hamilton Heights
Northwestern @ Twin Lakes
Seeger @ Central Catholic
South Adams vs Tipton
West Lafayette @ Harrison
Western @ Tri-West
West Central @ Caston
Frontier @ Clinton Prairie
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First (official) week of High School Football games are here. A couple in-conference games and a few out of conference games. Who ya got for this week? I'll take a stab at it, but first week picks are sometimes the hardest.
Bluffton at Northfield, 7 pm - I'll take Bluffton here though I don't know much about them. Coming off of a sectional championship last year and I think Northfield graduated quite a bit of talent. Can't count that option offense out though.
Cass at Pioneer, 7 pm - Cass graduated a lot of key seniors last year. Still, they bring back quite a bit of experience with a senior quarterback and some skilled guys who got good playing time last year. From what I hear Pioneer is still very young. I'll take Cass in this one.
Maconaquah at Southwood ©, 7 pm - Southwood graduated arguably its three best players last year. Gonna need a lot of guys to step up this year. I think Mac brings back too much talent at the skilled positions for Southwood to handle. I'll take Mac here.
Manchester at North Miami ©, 7 pm - From what I hear, it's gonna be a process getting Manchester where they want to be. North Miami took a huge step in the right direction last year winning a few ball games. North Miami wins this one.
Peru at Logansport, 7 pm - Logansport wins.
Rochester at Wabash ©, 7 pm - Wabash has a stud quarterback. Dude can make plays happen when they aren't there. Defense looks to be the struggle for the Apaches. I don't think they can stop the backfield of Rochester. Zebras win this one.
Whitko at Prairie Heights, 7 pm - I'm not sure about either team. I'll take Prairie Heights, but pulling for Whitko and their kids to get a win.
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8 hours ago, tango said:
I predict all 6 state title winners will come from the teams who received a 1st place vote in these polls.
4 out of 6 at the most. 1A and 2A will be different I think, and 5A is an absolute toss up.
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Rochester will be at Winamac and in the past Knox has scrimmaged Tippy Valley
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I like Knox to win the conference. However, that quarterback for the Lancers is a stud. Judson is always going to be tough. I still think Triton will be competitive even tho they lost their best player. I think the team that will surprise a lot of people in the conference will be Caston. Wont be bottom of the conference this year I can promise you that.
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1 hour ago, Scat said:
I think their QB is in top 20. They, like Rochester have been waiting for this class to be seniors!
I just find it hard to believe a team that lost to a very below average Tipton team in the first round of sectionals last year could possibly be the #7 team in 2A the following year. I find it odd that after having the season they had last year that Eastbrook is up there at #4, but its just preseason after all. I'm sure by October it will look very different.
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On 7/29/2023 at 1:24 PM, MarshallCounty said:
No clue, Triton fans say he didn’t decide to play. Bremen has a 1300 yard back from last year, not playing his senior year.
Unfortunately in a lot of 1A and 2A programs around the state, football is becoming a dying breed. Its too easy for kids to say they just want to focus on basketball or baseball all through the year, or quite simply just not play sports. Thats fine if you are going to the gym and getting 1,000 shots up a day and living in the weight room 365 days a year. Kids aren't actually doing it tho. What's even worse are the coaches in different sports are encouraging kids to be 1 sport athletes. Just an absolute shame.
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5 hours ago, Scat said:
I know the Kings are new, but I think it is common knowledge that this is the Zebras year! Loaded!!!! I have heard about this class all the way down here in Walton. Maybe the Braves will at least make you guys work up a sweat. I see the Kings a middle of the conference team with the players they lost from last year. As a fan it will be fun to go to some new fields.
The Zebras are excited about the season and they're looking to accomplish a lot of big things this year, but still a lot of work to be done just to be ready for week 1. Mac is going to make everyone work up a sweat this year for sure. Might have the best skilled players in the conference. Those cats can straight move. I know they had a lot of football guys on the track team do very well this last year. I hope the Kings can make a little bit of noise this year. I'll be pulling for the 'ole alma mater every week except 5 and hopefully one of the rounds of sectionals haha.
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After a three-team tie for first place last year, the TRC is gonna look a little different this year. Valley is out. Cass is in. Interested to hear what teams are returning and what they lost. Southwood and Northfield graduated quite a bit of talent at the skill positions if I'm not mistaken. Mac has speed all over the place. Wabash a three year starter at quarterback. North Miami is always tough to defend running the triple. I don't know much about Manchester other than they will have a new coach running the show. Not sure about Peru or Whitko either. I know Cass had a pretty good team last year, had a few key guys graduate but they got a three year starter at qb as well running the show so that always helps. Rochester returns a lot of experience, but are gonna need some guys to step up in order to have a good season. Who do you have this year as the champion? Any news or predictions on some of the teams as a lot of talent graduated from the conference last year.
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1 hour ago, gonzoron said:
Tippecanoe Valley isn't in the Hoosier Conference. No reason for Hamilton Heights to schedule them. Shifitng the blame for Lewis Cass leaving a conference in the lurch to a team who left a different conference is crazy talk.
So what was the reasoning for scheduling South Bend Washington if they aren't in the conference either?
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19 hours ago, Gipper said:
Pretty weak and selfish of what LC did. Not only did they take their ball and run with it, they left other schools scrambling to find a replacement, and by the looks of it, a long ride must be endured. West Lafayette to Tippy Valley isn't exactly next door, nor is HH to South Bend.
LC doesn't leave the conference if Valley doesn't choose to do so first. Everything Valley has had to do for a schedule is their own doing. As for the Hoosier conference, all the teams that had Cass on the schedule had to do was call up Valley and book them for the week they were supposed to play Cass. Instead they complained and pulled the "woah is me" card because they lost a lower tier team in the conference and didn't get right to scheduling Valley. West Lafayette to Cass and vice versa wasn't exactly next door.
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4 minutes ago, jets said:
OMG - Mr. 32 and I agree on a subject - I have for years called this the "hallway test" !
Wrestling does it every year.
It.is.really.not.that.hard
You also wrestle about 35 matches before Sectionals in wrestling. Probably gonna see every kid you're gonna wrestle in the sectional before it gets there to help with seeding.
I'm all for playing 35 games before the sectionals starts for football, I just don't think a high schoolers body can make it that many games.
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19 hours ago, jets said:
Of course ...more students = more $$ . I get that.
Anyone on message boards will pick apart any little thing - but I think the point is pretty clear as far as advantages p/p's have over their public counterparts - thus my feelings for just an "auto-bump" and be DONE with the success factor.
Oh....AND SEED THE D#@$ SECTIONALS ALREADY! And none of this "only top 2" bologna - do the entire thing - GIVE SOME CREDENCE to a good regular season.
But what is a good regular season? Fort Wayne Luers went 4-5 in the regular season, not a good regular season. They won the sectional and a regional. How do you factor in a 2A or 1A team with a schedule full of 4A and 5A schools. (I agree with you on seeding and think it should happen, just trying to show the problem the IHSAA probably has with it)
The problem is with a lot of the conferences in Indiana, especially for smaller private schools, is they play a lot of bigger schools and their record doesn't look great heading into the playoffs. There are just too many factors for the IHSAA to take into account that my guess is they don't want to mess with because its so much easier to just draw ping pong balls out and write down names of schools. For that reason, I don't see the seeding of sectionals ever happening. I would love for it to happen. What we have right now is just too easy for the IHSAA to do to change it. Also like previously stated, if they change it for football, they have to change it for all the other sports throughout the year, and if football alone was too much work, all those other sports would be even more work. Everyone within the IHSAA would need an even bigger raise.
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37 minutes ago, foxbat said:
Let's be fairly realistic about this ... and this is the main reason that I'm against an automatic bump and, instead, all for a PERFORMANCE-based bump.
Folks often lump LCC into the "dominant" school programs of the IHSAA for all time. But looking at the numbers at the time of SF policy consideration, and if you are including LCC as a reason for SF, then SF's reason for existing is flawed because LCC was, prior to the SF implementation and prior to their 4-peat run in 2009-2012, which ended in being part of the inaugural class of SF, a team that looks like lots of other public 1A schools in terms of their PERFORMANCE to that point . Prior to their 4-peat run in 2009-2012, LCC the following post-season record ... starting in 1976:
- 1976 - State champion
- 1989 - Sectional champion
- 1999 - State champion
- 2005 - Sectional champion
That's it! Two state championships, a decade and a half apart and two sectional championships ... every other season they left with nothing; including eight of those 33 seasons being bounced in the first game of sectionals. The only thing that was close to being a power run was the fact that it took only six years after winning the state championship in 1999 to finally get out of sectionals again in 2005 ... then again, in three of those six seasons they were bounced by two different teams, in the first game of sectionals, so I'm not sure that's a real power run. Incidentally, go back and look at how many DIFFERENT teams ended LCC's seasons in that timeframe. It's not like it was just Pioneer. In addition, it was Sheridan, Westfield, Frontier, South Decatur, Clinton Central, North Miami, Caston, North White, and Seeger; all public schools that ended LCC's season. By the way, just for a couple of interesting comparisons, Clinton Central, who was one of those teams that ended LCC's season three times and all three times causing LCC to exit sectionals in Game 1, had:
- 1997 - Sectional Championship
- 2000 - Sectional Championship
- 2002 - Sectional Championship
While Sheridan had:
- 1976: Sectional Championship
- 1980: State Championship
- 1981: Sectional Championship
- 1983: Regional Championship
- 1984: State Championship
- 1985: Sectional Championship
- 1987: State Championship
- 1988: State Championship
- 1990: Sectional Championship
- 1992: State Championship
- 1994: Semi-State Championship
- 1998: State Championship
- 2004: Sectional Championship
- 2005: State Championship
- 2006: State Championship
- 2007: State Championship
- 2008: Semi-State Championship
And Pioneer had:
- 1997 - State champion
- 2001 - Regional champion
- 2002 - Regional champion
- 2006 - Sectional champion
- 2008 - Sectional champion
While Fountain Central had:
- 1978 - Semi-State champion
- 1983 - State champion
- 1996 - Sectional champion
- 1998 - Sectional champion
- 2004 - Sectional champion
- 2006 - Sectional champion
And North White
- 1994 - State champion
- 1998 - Semi-State champion
- 2000 - Regional champion
And, lastly as another data point set, Seeger:
- 1977 - Sectional champion
- 1995 - Sectional champion
- 1999 - Sectional champion
- 2002 - Sectional champion
- 2003 - Semi-State champion
- 2004 - State champion
There's no way that anyone can sanely convince me that LCC's post-season records, prior to their 4-peat run when SF was being considered, would be even in the mix as a data point for making the SF argument other than because they were P/P. It wasn't until LCC thoroughly thrashed Fountain Central 52-0 in 2009 and then a year later 31-6 that anyone started taking notice and lumping LCC in with the Chatards and Cathedrals of the world. Realistically, LCC's records to that point were no more spectacular than Seeger's, Pioneer's, North White's, Fountain Central's, and, of course, not Sheridan's. With the 4-peat, LCC shot into IHSAA "legendary" status, but at the commencement of SF consideration, they looked no different than plenty of other public counterparts in their "dominance" moniker.
If LCC was in the discussion driving SF, then it was pretty much 1) based on the 2009-2010 seasons ... so two data points ... which isn't a great driving force for policy, 2) ignoring all other data points of all other teams prior to 2009, or 3) based on the P/P categorization. In reality, none of these SHOULD be true. Lumping LCC in with some of the other P/Ps mentioned, ignores the data that was present at the time of the decisions and also generally tends to distort the analysis. We can do a "lookback" a decade after the fact that LCC is in the SF discussion "post implementation," but by the data at the time, there's no honest way that someone could argue that, prior to the 4-peat season run, which started right around the time that SF discussions were peaking, that LCC could have been a driving factor, in football, for SF in the same bucket as Chatard/Cathedral unless we are willing to admit that it wasn't even really about whether the teams were dominant or even winning.
You are completely right. They get grouped into it because they are a private school that won four straight state championships around the time of determining the success factor. I guess I group them in with the rest because of what LCC also was three or four years after the SF. If the SF doesn't happen in 2012, LCC wins 7 straight state titles, and then we are definitely grouping them with the other schools mentioned previously. Instead they got bumped up and still managed to have success in 2A only losing to the 2A state runner up and the 2A state champion the next year before going back down and winning another state championship. So they might not have had the success the other schools did previous to the SF, but they were starting to become a problem for 1A.
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45 minutes ago, tango said:
But there are in other sports. You gotta remember that any SF / multiplier system applies to all sports, not just football. The IHSAA is never going to do one thing for football and something else for other sports.
You are certainly right and I forget about other sports often when talking about success factor, moving conferences, seeding sectionals, etc...However we're kidding ourselves if we don't say that football is the driving force and reason for anything high school sports. The only reason we have the success factor is because you had the LCC, Luers, Chatard, and Cathedral teams winning state every year in football. I've never heard of another reason from another sport. Maybe I was too young at the time to hear anything different, but I also had a dad that coached anything and everything under the sun with a lot of other coaches. I feel like I would've heard something, but all I remember hearing them talk about was the four private schools dominating the football tournament year in and out. Also are there a lot of schools having the success factor applied to them outside of football?
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27 minutes ago, Titan32 said:
It also sounds like many of the "commenters" here don't think sectionals should matter. What about a program that wins 5 or 6 or 13 sectionals in a row?
I think sectionals definitely matter, but there's only a total of about 10 schools since the success factor has been implemented that have won 5 straight sectionals, let alone 6 or 13 lol, and all but about 2 are 5a or 6a schools. So unless we want to send Center Grove off to play D3 football, they are gonna keep winning sectional championships yes.
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44 minutes ago, Letterkenny Irish said:
Next domino to fall in the Hoosier Conference, Northwestern to leave for the TRC with Cass?
Not likely that the TRC will bring anyone else in. For whatever reason the conference likes the idea of having 10 teams in it. No more no less.
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My guess would be no divisions and have a true conference. 9 teams in the conference. Play everyone and have 1 non conference game. Its not ideal and contracts might have to be broken, but that's what I see the best outcome being. Until Westside and Benton Central leaves and then its back to the drawing board.
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Was just about to say the same thing myself. I'm sure there's a few AD's and coaches from the littler schools in the TRC that are more than okay with trying to figure out how to schedule the one conference team they weren't going to play this year than having to play against Valley.
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It will be interesting to see what Valley athletes decide to pack up shop and ask for a transfer for their senior year. Might not be important to all of them, but there are a lot of really good seniors on that roster that will now miss out on a conference championship and conference accolades that many of them will deserve for their senior year. Would mean the only championship they are eligible for is a sectional championship and so on and well...Chatard is still in that sectional as well as Geurin Catholic.
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6 hours ago, Punttheball said:
Valley has only been a school dating back to 1975. They have a very good overall record. They won the conference outright in 2021 and tied for it in 2022. From 1998 on it has not been a total domination. Here are the program numbers since they became Consolidated.
Year Record 1975 3-2 1976 8-2 1977 12-1 1978 11-1 1979 13-0 1980 8-2 1981 10-1 1982 9-1 1983 10-2 1984 4-6 1985 9-2 1986 9-2 1987 9-1 1988 6-4 1989 4-5 1990 3-6 1991 5-5 1992 6-6 1993 9-2 1994 7-2 1995 6-4 1996 5-4 1997 5-6 1998 4-6 1999 6-5 2000 7-3 2001 8-3 2002 5-6 2003 8-3 2004 7-3 2005 7-4 2006 7-3 2007 8-2 2008 3-7 2009 5-5 2010 5-5 2011 6-4 2012 8-3 2013 5-5 2014 1-9 2015 3-7 2016 3-7 2017 2-8 2018 6-5 2019 7-4 2020 7-4 2021 10-1 2022 9-2 318-181 A lot of wins. Not a lot of seasons with more than 10 or 11 games played though.
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HNAC WEEK 1
in The Indiana High School Football Forum
Posted
Not to take anything away from Pioneer because the future does look very bright for them, but I don't think Cass is going to be that great this year. I think Pioneer is kind of stuck right in the middle of the conference behind Triton, Knox, and North Judson. Might be able to beat Laville this year. Another year or two, and they will be back at the top of the conference. I could be wrong, just my humble opinion.