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I noticed an advocate that beliefs or once believed Sandy Hook didn't happen is letting us all know his opinion on this matter. Does anyone know if the IHSAA has plans to use this facility? I would think since it's labeled multisport we might not only see boys and girls soccer games but maybe even football and lacrosse.

If the field is cut in half does a Cinderella exist? Based on what you're saying here it doesn't appear to be the case?

Could you please separate the record? I'd like to see the record of the games like Columbia City over Sagarin 32 seed Ft. Wayne Wayne. Or Brebeuf over 21 seed Northview. I think it'll be interesting to see how the bottom half of the qualifiers hold up to the top half.

I'm wondering if you could also track win-loss records of those top half of the qualifiers against each other? I'm interested to see if it's just as lopsided. Meaning the top half still dominates and the bottom half of the schools deemed worthy to qualify for a playoff system you are proposing. Obviously you'll run into issues like New Pal v Mt. Vernon. But for example, Brebeuf over Northview is an example I would like to see. Is that 58-2 number including Brebeuf's win already? Or do you not include it?

OK I've punched some numbers with the schools (14 total) that are currently 5A or recently 5A that I would imagine Castle and Evansville North will be jockeying with for a playoff qualifier and seeding. I compiled the last three years. The 2020 season has all kinds of issues (Cancellations etc. etc.) with it being that was the season of COVID. I was thinking of possibly throwing that year out but I was halfway through the process and decided to just include it. Some of these calculations might be off due to the rush and I by no means claim that the accuracy of these digits are legit. But I believe this will provide a nice picture of the system that OHSAA uses being applied to schools like Castle and Evansville North. Should a qualifier apply any school ranked 8 or below would be considered the bottom half. Bloomington South for some reason has an 8 game schedule. I didn't take exception to the formula with them. I applied the formula as if they played a 9 game schedule. This means they missed out on points. You'll see how this jeopardizes possible seeding for them below. Schools bolded won a sectional. Schools in italic won the regional. Current Season Breakdown [8-1] Whiteland 24.777 [7-1] Bloomington South 19.611 [7-2] Franklin 19.611 [6-3] Terre Haute South 15.444 [6-3] Seymour 14.444 [5-4] Bedford North Lawrence 11.444 [5-4] Bloomington North 11 [5-4] Evansville North 10.277 [5-4] Castle 9.833 [4-5] Columbus East 9.388 [4-5] Floyd Central 8.611 [2-4] Terre Haute North 3.555 [2-7] New Albany 3.388 [1-7] Jeffersonville 2.5 If all of these schools were in 5A and a qualifier that cuts half the field was implemented, the SIAC might not have representation in the tournament this year. Bloomington North and BNL might also not make the cut because I didn't include other 5A schools considered in the south bracket. This is assuming there would be a 'South' and 'North' bracket of course. 2021 Season [6-2] Bloomington South 16.055 [7-2] Castle 15.555 [6-3] New Albany 14.333 [5-3] Whiteland 13.611 [6-3] Bloomington North 13.5 [4-5] Columbus East 8.722 [5-4] Evansville North 7.944 [4-5] Bedford North Lawrence 7.722 [3-6] Franklin 7.722 [3-5] Jeffersonville 6.611 [3-6] Floyd Central 6.388 [3-5] Seymour 6 [3-6] Terre Haute North 5.388 [1-9] Terre Haute South 0.666 Whiteland beat Columbus East twice, once in the regular season and again in the first round of the sectional. An 8 total game schedule Bloomington South beat Castle in the first of the sectional. 2020 Season [8-1] Whiteland 22.777 [7-2] Columbus East 21.666 [7-2] Floyd Central 15.833 [5-3] Castle 12.833 [6-2] New Albany 10.777 [5-4] Evansville North 10.666 [4-3] Bloomington South 9.833 [4-5] Bloomington North 7.944 [4-5] Terre Haute North 6.388 [3-5] Jeffersonville 5.166 [3-7] Seymour 5.055 [2-7] Terre Haute South 4.722 [3-5] Franklin 3.611 [2-7] Bedford North Lawrence 3.333 This year is a tough one to evaluate in a substantial way due to COVID. Jeffersonville won its Sectional this year. They most likely would have been cut from the field according to the points accumulated. But again, 2020 was an anomaly. Overall, I think it's safe to say the 5A SIAC schools probably wouldn't face any major issues with getting any sort of shaft with this type of system. Getting a 1 seed might be a challenge for them. And I would consider a 5-4 school be on the bubble anyway. But I think they'd be just fine with the current schedule they play. Which is actually a good thing for fans of the SIAC. Tango already mentioned Rivalry Week down here. He's 100% correct about the enthusiasm. The folks on the west side would probably blow a gasket if the West Side Nut Club Championship was no longer a thing because of something like this. They would absolutely lose their poop. It wouldn't be pretty. No seriously. For real.

I haven't punched the numbers yet but Evansville North and Castle probably get screwed with OHSAA's system. When I get the time I plan on breaking down the area to see just how much these two 5A schools miss out on points as opposed to the 5A schools north of I-64.

I might be mistaken but isn't a bubble team also considered a Cinderella? I'd be interested to see not only the bottom half stats but also the stats bubble teams that would or wouldn't qualify. I'm willing to throw down some cash that you'll see running clocks with a field cut in half as well. I could be mistaken but I like my chances. So if we do indeed see the same type of stats of what you deem Cinderella teams with bubble teams should the field be cut again? Personally, I just enjoy watching football. And I'm interested to see how 812 football does during the tournament. Just like any tournament on the planet the good teams weed out the bad teams week after week. Some teams are better than others. That's sports.

Well, it goes without question 42 is the answer, to everything. I was under the assumption based on the conversation we've been having only one programed CRS (a computer) vs an application written to play chess is the discussion. I'm now at the understanding you have a desire to take averages of three separate programs (computers)? If that's the case, that somewhat balances out the most obvious defect that all CRS have in the state of Indiana. It still isn't effective and solved by "a computer" or computers. It's taking the subjective human element into solving the math objective by intervening with separate algorithms, that are not as effective due to unit-containment. This also points out the inefficiencies in taking multiple programs written to get the outcome, unlike an application being written for a game of chess and the stark differences between the two math objectives.

Yeah, these are all good ideas to address the unit-containment issue. 3-6 Evansville Harrison might end up above the cut off threshold to get punched in if they'd play a game outside of the SIAC. But proposing a game to fix the unit-containment won't address Sagarin's second out of state opponent defect. Which you have pointed out regarding Gibson Southern. And all SIAC schools would absolutely have to avoid scheduling any out of state schools, which might be an issue down here in 812 SIAC land.

OK, that makes sense. I was wondering why you were using Sagarin as an example. I appreciate your response here. Frankly, I think all systems have their defects here in the state of Indiana. I'll cover that below. I personally could be sold on a 'take an average' of the three systems approach. However, if I'm being completely honest, I could really be sold to a 'committee of coaches' (CoC) approach. I say this because I tend to think coaches have a better pulse on the IHSAA football landscape then some dudes in the Bay Area, CA or Jefferson City, TN. But more importantly the CoC will cover the computer ranking system (CRS) defect. The major issue with using a CRS in the state of Indiana is there are two metro areas/conferences (SIAC and SAC) that have self-contained units. This is basically the statistical math kiss of death for any statistician on the planet. They can't solve this problem effectively. However this can be effectively solved by subjective pollsters or a CoC. Sidenote: Man, using Sagarin, Gibson Southern would get the shaft at an overall 7 seed when they're ranked 3 in both Calpreps and Massey. Instead of hosting a regional game they're most likely on the road.

Is Norwell the overall #1 seed for the entire tournament?

I cosine this hypotenuse.

Boss, which one of these programs effectively solved the problem? 3A class rank of Norwell - Sagarin: 1 Calpreps: 6 Massey: 4

Yes really. Creating algorithms for a game of chess has a completely different math objective than the subjective logic of creating a ranking system for sport teams. Excuse the pun but these are two separate objectives to solve mathematically. How is that criteria agreed-upon? A computer ranking system?

Sure you're gonna get complaints. Which makes sense. But are they somewhat fair seedings?

Yeah, apples and oranges as someone has already pointed out.

OK, I'm hearing a complete lack of faith in a committee of coaches seeding IHSAA's football tournament but are cool with 15 coaches seeding the entire IHSAA's wrestling tournament? That just doesn't make sense to me but whatever. Again, I'm Switzerland when it comes to this stuff. But I've got to admit, relying on a single computer ratings system (CRS) isn't something that I would want to happen. Especially when there are at least 3, that I know of, out there to use right now. And all three of them have flaws. The one CRS, in my opinion, that has the most glaring flaw (Sagarin) is the one that is being pushed or used for an example makes zero sense to me. I can't get on board having that system determining whether or not a school like Evansville Harrison is either playing this Friday or watching. I might get on board if an average rank using the combination of the three are used but that's just me.

A lot of talk about Sagarin to solve a complex problem. Could someone please explain to me why a computer ranking system would be used over a committee of coaches when determining seeding and/or qualifiers?

I'm Switzerland regarding this topic however I'm not sure using Sagarin or only one system in general is as an example helping ones argument. For example does a school like 3-6 Evansville Harrison qualify for the tournament using Sagarin? In Calpres and Massey they are class ranked 33 and 30 respectively whilst ranked 34 in Sagarin. If using Massey do they qualify? Averaging out all three systems they are class ranked 32.333. Does that make them qualify? Most importantly, this Friday they will face a 6-3 Boonville team. This game is intriguing for this type of topic because it's not a stretch to say Harrison has a legitimate chance to win that game. However, in a qualifier, using Sagarin or Calpreps they don't even have a chance to play this Friday? I'm curious here. I'm under the assumption ranking systems really wouldn't play a role in determining the tournament seeding or qualifier but more so coaches accomplishing the task?

I'm posting this to keep a record on how these pan out throughout the tournament. Also, there has been discussion regarding seeding and/or qualifiers for the tournament. I've noticed Sagarin is being the most common quoted so I thought it would be interesting to see which system had a better accuracy rate at the end of the 2022 season. 1A Sagarin Calpreps Massey Class Rank State Rank School Class Rank School Class Rank School State Rank 1 15 Indianapolis Lutheran 1 Indianapolis Lutheran (Indianapolis, IN) 1 Indianapolis Luth 33 2 33 Adams Central 2 Adams Central (Monroe, IN) 2 Adams Cent 48 3 58 North Judson 3 North Judson-San Pierre (North Judson, IN) 3 North Judson 90 4 80 North Decatur 4 Tecumseh (Lynnville, IN) 4 North Decatur 103 5 85 Tecumseh 5 North Decatur (Greensburg, IN) 5 Tecumseh 113 6 93 South Putnam 6 South Putnam (Greencastle, IN) 6 Sheridan 136 7 114 Covenant Christian 7 Providence (Clarksville, IN) 7 South Putnam 142 8 115 Sheridan 8 Sheridan (IN) 8 Providence 146 9 118 Providence 9 Southwood (Wabash, IN) 9 Triton 148 10 119 Triton 10 Madison-Grant (Fairmount, IN) 10 Covenant Chr 150 11 120 Tri 11 Triton (Bourbon, IN) 11 Southwood 151 12 135 Southwood 12 Covenant Christian (Indianapolis, IN) 12 South Adams 153 13 136 Madison-Grant 13 Carroll (Flora, IN) 13 Tri 155 14 138 Park Tudor 14 South Adams (Berne, IN) 14 Madison-Grant 165 15 142 Carroll (Flora) 15 Tri (Straughn, IN) 15 Carroll-Flora 166 16 147 South Adams 16 North Daviess (Elnora, IN) 16 Park Tudor 178 17 169 Springs Valley 17 Park Tudor (Indianapolis, IN) 17 South Spencer 199 18 187 Northfield 18 Northfield (Wabash, IN) 18 Northfield 204 19 189 Riverton Parke 19 West Washington (Campbellsburg, IN) 19 W Washington 206 20 195 South Spencer 20 Milan (IN) 20 Springs Val 208 21 197 West Central 21 Springs Valley (French Lick, IN) 21 Monroe Cent 210 22 200 North Daviess 22 Culver (IN) 22 Riverton Parke 212 23 210 North Vermillion 23 Monroe Central (Parker City, IN) 23 Culver 213 24 213 Traders Point Christian 24 South Spencer (Rockport, IN) 24 Pioneer 218 25 214 West Washington 25 Riverton Parke (Montezuma, IN) 25 North Daviess 219 26 215 Milan 26 West Central (Francesville, IN) 26 North Vermilion 220 27 216 Culver 27 Traders Pt Chr Academy (Whitestown, IN) 27 Milan 225 28 221 Monroe Central 28 Pioneer (Royal Center, IN) 28 West Central 230 29 230 Pioneer 29 North Vermillion (Cayuga, IN) 29 Traders Pt Chr 240 30 231 Fountain Central 30 Clinton Prairie (Frankfort, IN) 30 Clinton Prairie 247 31 235 North Miami 31 Indiana School for the Deaf (Indianapolis, IN) 31 Fountain Cent 253 32 241 Clinton Prairie 32 North Miami (Denver, IN) 32 North Miami 256 33 251 South Newton 33 Fountain Central (Veedersburg, IN) 33 Hagerstown 263 34 257 Tri-Central 34 Hagerstown (IN) 34 IN Deaf 266 35 266 Eastern Greene 35 Tri-Central (Sharpsville, IN) 35 Newton South 267 36 270 Hagerstown 36 South Newton (Kentland, IN) 36 N Cent-Farm 270 37 272 North White 37 Eastern Greene (Bloomfield, IN) 37 Covington 273 38 273 Indiana Deaf 38 Edinburgh (IN) 38 Fremont 275 39 275 Fremont 39 North White (Monon, IN) 39 Eastern Greene 276 40 278 Edinburgh 40 Fremont (IN) 40 Tri-Central 277 41 279 N Central (Farmersburg) 41 North Central (Farmersburg, IN) 41 North White 278 42 281 Covington 42 Bowman Academy [Thea] (Gary, IN) 42 Parke Heritage 279 43 282 Frontier 43 Frontier (Chalmers, IN) 43 Edinburgh 282 44 284 Indianapolis Tindley 44 Covington (IN) 44 Frontier 285 45 285 Caston 45 South Decatur (Greensburg, IN) 45 South Central 287 46 288 Southern Wells 46 Caston (Fulton, IN) 46 Caston 288 47 290 Wes-Del 47 Wes-Del (Gaston, IN) 47 Bowman Acad 289 48 291 South Decatur 48 Tindley [Charles A.] (Indianapolis, IN) 48 Indy Tindley 294 49 292 Bowman Academy 49 Cloverdale (IN) 49 South Decatur 295 50 295 Parke Heritage 50 Taylor (Kokomo, IN) 50 Wes-Del 297 51 297 Taylor 51 Southern Wells (Poneto, IN) 51 Union City 298 52 298 Cloverdale 52 Parke Heritage (Rockville, IN) 52 Tri-County 302 53 299 Tri-County 53 South Central (Union Mills, IN) 53 N Newton 304 54 301 North Newton 54 Tri-County (Wolcott, IN) 54 Clinton Cent 305 55 303 South Central (Union Mills) 55 Union City (IN) 55 Taylor 306 56 304 Clinton Central 56 Knightstown (IN) 56 Southern Wells 307 57 307 Union City 57 North Newton (Morocco, IN) 57 Cloverdale 310 58 309 Knightstown 58 Clinton Central (Michigantown, IN) 58 Knightstown 312 59 311 Attica 59 Attica (IN) 59 Attica 314 60 316 Cambridge City Lincoln 60 Lincoln (Cambridge City, IN) 60 Lincoln-CC 320 2A Sagarin Calpreps Massey Class Rank State Rank School Class Rank School Class Rank School State Rank 1 42 Triton Central 1 Scecina Memorial (Indianapolis, IN) 1 Linton-Stockton 51 2 45 Linton-Stockton 2 Triton Central (Fairland, IN) 2 Mater Dei 61 3 47 LaVille 3 LaVille (Lakeville, IN) 3 Andrean 63 4 54 Indianapolis Scecina 4 Linton-Stockton (Linton, IN) 4 Scecina 66 5 65 Eastside 5 Mater Dei (Evansville, IN) 5 LaVille 67 6 68 Evansville Mater Dei 6 Andrean (Merrillville, IN) 6 Luers 75 7 72 Andrean 7 Eastside (Butler, IN) 7 Triton Cent 83 8 88 Fort Wayne Luers 8 Bishop Luers (Fort Wayne, IN) 8 Eastside 92 9 91 Churubusco 9 Rochester (IN) 9 Lafayette Cent Cath 102 10 101 Lafayette Cen Catholic 10 Heritage Christian (Indianapolis, IN) 10 Churubusco 106 11 107 Rochester 11 Churubusco (IN) 11 Southmont 112 12 113 Sullivan 12 Southmont (Crawfordsville, IN) 12 Rochester 121 13 125 Lewis Cass 13 North Posey (Poseyville, IN) 13 North Posey 123 14 127 Heritage Christian 14 Cascade (Clayton, IN) 14 Heritage Chr 131 15 128 Cascade 15 Lafayette Central Catholic (Lafayette, IN) 15 Sullivan 133 16 130 Southmont 16 Sullivan (IN) 16 Lewis Cass 135 17 137 North Posey 17 Perry Central (Leopold, IN) 17 Eastbrook 137 18 145 Perry Central 18 Cass [Lewis] (Walton, IN) 18 Perry Cent 144 19 146 Eastbrook 19 Eastbrook (Marion, IN) 19 Cascade 149 20 149 Northeastern 20 Northeastern (Fountain City, IN) 20 S Vermillion 157 21 153 Shenandoah 21 Lapel (IN) 21 Brownstown Central 158 22 161 Eastern (Greentown) 22 Bluffton (IN) 22 Seeger 167 23 163 Bluffton 23 South Vermillion (Clinton, IN) 23 Northeastern 171 24 164 Seeger 24 Paoli (IN) 24 Bremen 176 25 166 South Vermillion 25 Eastern (Greentown, IN) 25 Tipton 180 26 172 Lapel 26 Brownstown Central (Brownstown, IN) 26 Lapel 181 27 178 Tipton 27 Bremen (IN) 27 Paoli 182 28 190 Brownstown Central 28 Shenandoah (Middletown, IN) 28 Eastern (Greentown) 189 29 194 Paoli 29 North Knox (Bicknell, IN) 29 Bluffton 190 30 202 Bremen 30 Seeger (West Lebanon, IN) 30 North Knox 192 31 203 North Knox 31 Alexandria-Monroe (Alexandria, IN) 31 Shenandoah 195 32 204 North Putnam 32 Tipton (IN) 32 Tell City 216 33 208 Frankton 33 Clarksville (IN) 33 Greencastle 217 34 209 Tell City 34 North Putnam (Roachdale, IN) 34 North Putnam 223 35 211 Eastern Hancock 35 Greencastle (IN) 35 Frankton 226 36 212 Greencastle 36 Frankton (IN) 36 Whiting 227 37 219 Alexandria 37 Tell City (IN) 37 Benton Cent 228 38 220 Clarksville 38 Eastern Hancock (Charlottesville, IN) 38 E Hancock 232 39 228 Central Noble 39 Whiting (IN) 39 Alexandria 234 40 229 Delphi 40 Cardinal Ritter (Indianapolis, IN) 40 Cent Noble 236 41 233 Whiting 41 Benton Central (Oxford, IN) 41 Clarksville 239 42 240 Forest Park 42 Central Noble (Albion, IN) 42 Card Ritter 242 43 247 Winamac 43 Delphi (IN) 43 Wheeler 244 44 249 Indianapolis Ritter 44 Forest Park (Ferdinand, IN) 44 Delphi 245 45 250 Wheeler 45 Wabash (IN) 45 Winamac 246 46 254 Manchester 46 Winamac (IN) 46 Forest Park 248 47 255 Wabash 47 Wheeler (Valparaiso, IN) 47 Prairie Hts 258 48 258 Benton Central 48 Winchester (IN) 48 Wabash 261 49 260 Eastern (Pekin) 49 Prairie Heights (LaGrange, IN) 49 Winchester 264 50 261 Union County 50 Manchester (North Manchester, IN) 50 Manchester 271 51 262 Prairie Heights 51 Union County (Liberty, IN) 51 Union Co 274 52 274 Winchester 52 Eastern (Pekin, IN) 52 Eastern (Pekin) 280 53 280 Mitchell 53 Switzerland County (Vevay, IN) 53 Mitchell 290 54 283 Blackford 54 Blackford (Hartford City, IN) 54 Blackford 291 55 286 Switzerland County 55 Christel House Manual (Indianapolis, IN) 55 Manual 292 56 293 Christel House Manual 56 Elwood (IN) 56 Switzerland Co 296 57 300 Lake Station 57 Mitchell (IN) 57 Lake Station Edison 300 58 302 Brown County 58 Edison [Thomas A.] (Lake Station, IN) 58 Brown Co 303 59 306 Elwood 59 Brown County (Nashville, IN) 59 Elwood 309 60 308 Whitko 60 Whitko (South Whitley, IN) 60 Whitko 311 61 310 Hammond Noll 61 Crawford County (Marengo, IN) 61 Noll 315 62 313 Crawford County 62 Bishop Noll (Hammond, IN) 62 Crawford Co 318 3A Sagarin Calpreps Massey Class Rank State Rank School Class Rank School Class Rank School State Rank 1 16 Norwell 1 Bishop Chatard (Indianapolis, IN) 1 W Lafayette 22 2 25 West Lafayette 2 West Lafayette (IN) 2 Bp Chatard 26 3 26 Indianapolis Chatard 3 Gibson Southern (Fort Branch, IN) 3 Gibson Southern 27 4 29 Lawrenceburg 4 Western Boone (Thorntown, IN) 4 Norwell 45 5 32 Western Boone 5 Lawrenceburg (IN) 5 W Boone 47 6 34 Hanover Central 6 Norwell (Ossian, IN) 6 Guerin Cath 55 7 35 Gibson Southern 7 Oak Hill (Converse, IN) 7 Tri-West 62 8 50 Tri-West 8 Guerin Catholic (Noblesville, IN) 8 Lawrenceburg 65 9 57 Guerin Catholic 9 Tri-West Hendricks (Lizton, IN) 9 Southridge 70 10 64 Oak Hill 10 Southridge (Huntingburg, IN) 10 Hanover Cent 72 11 67 Southridge 11 Owen Valley (Spencer, IN) 11 Oak Hill 76 12 69 Owen Valley 12 Hanover Central (Cedar Lake, IN) 12 Owen Val 78 13 81 Hamilton Heights 13 Yorktown (IN) 13 Yorktown 84 14 89 Yorktown 14 South Dearborn (Aurora, IN) 14 Hamilton Hts 93 15 90 Heritage Hills 15 Speedway (IN) 15 Vincennes 95 16 92 Knox 16 Lincoln (Vincennes, IN) 16 Danville 98 17 100 Vincennes Lincoln 17 Hamilton Heights (Arcadia, IN) 17 South Dearborn 100 18 104 Tippecanoe Valley 18 Tippecanoe Valley (Akron, IN) 18 N Montgomery 104 19 106 Charlestown 19 North Montgomery (Crawfordsville, IN) 19 Jimtown 107 20 109 Speedway 20 Knox (IN) 20 Heritage Hills 108 21 111 North Montgomery 21 Delta (Muncie, IN) 21 Concordia 109 22 112 South Dearborn 22 West Noble (Ligonier, IN) 22 Charlestown 110 23 116 West Noble 23 Danville (IN) 23 Tippecanoe Val 111 24 117 Jimtown 24 Indian Creek (Trafalgar, IN) 24 Delta 114 25 121 Danville 25 Charlestown (IN) 25 Speedway 116 26 122 Mount Vernon (Posey) 26 Heritage Hills (Lincoln City, IN) 26 Knox 124 27 124 Heritage 27 Calumet (Gary, IN) 27 Marian 127 28 126 Delta 28 Jimtown (Elkhart, IN) 28 West Noble 130 29 129 North Harrison 29 Mt. Vernon (IN) 29 Mt Vernon (Posey) 134 30 144 Indian Creek 30 Heritage (Monroeville, IN) 30 Calumet 138 31 151 Calumet 31 North Harrison (Ramsey, IN) 31 N Harrison 141 32 155 Fort Wayne Concordia 32 Batesville (IN) 32 Indian Creek 143 33 158 Centerville 33 Concordia Lutheran (Fort Wayne, IN) 33 Rensselaer Central 154 34 159 Rensselaer Central 34 Franklin County (Brookville, IN) 34 Fairfield 159 35 171 Madison 35 Monrovia (IN) 35 Heritage 160 36 175 Garrett 36 Rensselaer Central (Rensselaer, IN) 36 John Glenn 161 37 177 John Glenn 37 Glenn [John] (Walkerton, IN) 37 Centerville 164 38 181 Woodlan 38 Greensburg (IN) 38 Franklin Co 168 39 182 Fairfield 39 Madison (IN) 39 Batesville 170 40 183 Batesville 40 Marian (Mishawaka, IN) 40 Monrovia 185 41 185 Franklin County 41 Fairfield (Goshen, IN) 41 Griffith 191 42 188 Mishawaka Marian 42 Lakeland (LaGrange, IN) 42 Greensburg 195 43 192 Greensburg 43 Griffith (IN) 43 Garrett 198 44 196 Lakeland 44 Maconaquah (Bunker Hill, IN) 44 Lakeland 200 45 199 Monrovia 45 Centerville (IN) 45 Madison 202 46 201 Griffith 46 Woodlan (Woodburn, IN) 46 Maconaquah 209 47 223 Maconaquah 47 Garrett (IN) 47 Woodlan 211 48 227 River Forest 48 Rushville (IN) 48 Crawfordsville 214 49 236 Scottsburg 49 Crawfordsville (IN) 49 River Forest 215 50 238 Boone Grove 50 River Forest (Hobart, IN) 50 Salem 224 51 239 Corydon Central 51 Washington (IN) 51 Peru 229 52 242 Rushville 52 Peru (IN) 52 Northwestern 237 53 243 Northwestern 53 Corydon Central (Corydon, IN) 53 Scottsburg 241 54 244 Crawfordsville 54 Northwestern (Kokomo, IN) 54 Corydon Central 243 55 245 Salem 55 Salem (IN) 55 Rushville 249 56 246 Peru 56 Bellmont (Decatur, IN) 56 Twin Lakes 251 57 256 West Vigo 57 Scottsburg (IN) 57 Bellmont 254 58 259 Pike Central 58 Boone Grove (Valparaiso, IN) 58 Boone Grove 255 59 263 Bellmont 59 Pike Central (Petersburg, IN) 59 West Vigo 257 60 267 Twin Lakes 60 West Vigo (West Terre Haute, IN) 60 Washington 260 61 271 Washington 61 Twin Lakes (Monticello, IN) 61 Pike Cent 283 62 287 Princeton 62 Princeton (IN) 62 Princeton 284 63 289 Purdue Polytechnic 63 Purdue Poly (Indianapolis, IN) 63 Purdue Poly 301 64 305 South Bend Clay 64 Clay (South Bend, IN) 64 SB Clay 308 4A Sagarin Calpreps Massey Class Rank State Rank School Class Rank School Class Rank School State Rank 1 6 New Palestine 1 New Palestine (IN) 1 New Palestine 6 2 7 Indianapolis Roncalli 2 Roncalli (Indianapolis, IN) 2 Roncalli 9 3 13 East Central 3 East Central (St. Leon, IN) 3 East Central 21 4 20 Brebeuf Jesuit 4 Brebeuf Jesuit Prep (Indianapolis, IN) 4 Northwood 24 5 21 NorthWood 5 Reitz [F. J.] (Evansville, IN) 5 Brebeuf Jesuit 28 6 28 Columbia City 6 NorthWood (Nappanee, IN) 6 Mooresville 29 7 30 Evansville Reitz 7 Mooresville (IN) 7 Reitz 30 8 39 Mooresville 8 Martinsville (IN) 8 Mt Vernon-Fort 35 9 40 Mount Vernon (Fortville) 9 Mt. Vernon (Fortville, IN) 9 Martinsville 40 10 41 New Prairie 10 New Prairie (New Carlisle, IN) 10 New Prairie 43 11 43 Kokomo 11 Columbia City (IN) 11 Kokomo 50 12 51 Greenfield-Central 12 Greenfield-Central (Greenfield, IN) 12 Columbia City 53 13 61 Martinsville 13 Kokomo (IN) 13 Greenfield-Central 56 14 62 Evansville Memorial 14 Jasper (IN) 14 Evansville Mem 58 15 66 Jasper 15 Reitz Memorial (Evansville, IN) 15 Jasper 64 16 70 Hobart 16 Lebanon (IN) 16 Lebanon 73 17 77 Leo 17 Pendleton Heights (Pendleton, IN) 17 Hobart & Smith 74 18 83 Northridge 18 Hobart (IN) 18 Northridge 81 19 84 Pendleton Heights 19 Northview (Brazil, IN) 19 Lowell 82 20 86 Lebanon 20 Western (Russiaville, IN) 20 Leo 85 21 87 Northview 21 Leo (IN) 21 Pendleton Hts 86 22 96 Boonville 22 Boonville (IN) 22 Northview 91 23 99 Angola 23 Northridge (Middlebury, IN) 23 Western 94 24 103 Western 24 Lowell (IN) 24 Logansport 96 25 105 Logansport 25 Angola (IN) 25 Boonville 97 26 108 Lowell 26 Logansport (IN) 26 Angola 105 27 110 Mississinewa 27 Beech Grove (IN) 27 East Noble 116 28 132 Gary West 28 Mississinewa (Gas City, IN) 28 St Joseph's 118 29 133 New Haven 29 New Haven (IN) 29 New Haven 120 30 134 East Noble 30 Connersville (IN) 30 Harrison-Evansville 125 31 140 Beech Grove 31 Greenwood (IN) 31 Wayne 128 32 143 Fort Wayne Wayne 32 East Noble (Kendallville, IN) 32 Mississinewa 129 33 148 Greenwood 33 Harrison [William Henry] (Evansville, IN) 33 Greenwood 132 34 150 Evansville Harrison 34 New Castle (IN) 34 B N Lawrence 139 35 152 Bedford North Lawrence 35 St. Joseph (South Bend, IN) 35 Beech Grove 140 36 156 Muncie Central 36 Bedford North Lawrence (Bedford, IN) 36 New Castle 152 37 160 Connersville 37 Wayne (Fort Wayne, IN) 37 Culver Mil 156 38 162 South Bend St. Joseph 38 Muncie Central (Muncie, IN) 38 Muncie Cent 162 39 165 DeKalb 39 West Side (Gary, IN) 39 DeKalb 163 40 167 New Castle 40 DeKalb (Waterloo, IN) 40 Kankakee Val 172 41 176 South Bend Riley 41 Riley (South Bend, IN) 41 Gary Westside 174 42 179 Culver Academy 42 Kankakee Valley (Wheatfield, IN) 42 Connersville 177 43 186 Kankakee Valley 43 Bosse (Evansville, IN) 43 Ev Bosse 184 44 191 Huntington North 44 Culver Academies (Culver, IN) 44 Highland 187 45 193 Highland 45 Highland (IN) 45 SB Riley 188 46 198 Wawasee 46 Huntington North (Huntington, IN) 46 Evansville Cent 193 47 207 Evansville Bosse 47 Wawasee (Syracuse, IN) 47 Huntington North 194 48 218 Jennings County 48 Shelbyville (IN) 48 South Side-FW 203 49 224 Shelbyville 49 Jennings County (North Vernon, IN) 49 Wawasee 205 50 225 Fort Wayne South 50 South Side (Fort Wayne, IN) 50 Silver Creek 207 51 232 Silver Creek 51 Evansville Central (Evansville, IN) 51 Jennings Co 221 52 234 Jay County 52 Plymouth (IN) 52 Shelbyville 231 53 248 Plymouth 53 Silver Creek (Sellersburg, IN) 53 Marion 233 54 252 Marion 54 Jay County (Portland, IN) 54 Plymouth 235 55 253 Evansville Central 55 Edgewood (Ellettsville, IN) 55 Jay Co 250 56 264 South Bend Washington 56 Marion (IN) 56 Washington-SB 252 57 265 Richmond 57 Washington (South Bend, IN) 57 Edgewood 259 58 268 Indianapolis Attucks 58 Attucks [Crispus] (Indianapolis, IN) 58 Frankfort 262 59 269 Indianapolis Shortridge 59 Richmond (IN) 59 Indy Attucks 265 60 276 Edgewood 60 Frankfort (IN) 60 Richmond 268 61 277 Frankfort 61 Shortridge (Indianapolis, IN) 61 Shortridge 281 62 294 East Chicago Central 62 E Chicago Central (East Chicago, IN) 62 E Chicago Cent 286 63 312 Indianapolis Washington 63 Washington [George] (Indianapolis, IN) 63 Washington-Indpls 313 5A Sagarin Calpreps Massey Class Rank State Rank School Class Rank School Class Rank School State Rank 1 9 Fort Wayne Snider 1 Whiteland (IN) 1 Whiteland 13 2 22 Whiteland 2 Snider [R. Nelson] (Fort Wayne, IN) 2 Snider 15 3 23 Bloomington South 3 Franklin (IN) 3 Merrillville 19 4 27 Franklin 4 Bloomington South (Bloomington, IN) 4 Franklin 25 5 36 Merrillville 5 North Side (Fort Wayne, IN) 5 Bloomington South 31 6 48 Fort Wayne North 6 Merrillville (IN) 6 Mishawaka 34 7 49 Chesterton 7 Harrison (West Lafayette, IN) 7 Northside-FW 36 8 52 Mishawaka 8 Mishawaka (IN) 8 Harrison WL 38 9 53 Valparaiso 9 Terre Haute South Vigo (Terre Haute, IN) 9 Valparaiso 39 10 56 Harrison West Lafayette 10 Valparaiso (IN) 10 Dwenger 44 11 59 Decatur Central 11 Plainfield (IN) 11 Decatur Cent 46 12 60 Terre Haute South 12 Decatur Central (Indianapolis, IN) 12 Chesterton 52 13 71 Plainfield 13 Bishop Dwenger (Fort Wayne, IN) 13 South Vigo 57 14 73 Castle 14 Chesterton (IN) 14 Plainfield 59 15 74 Concord 15 Evansville North (Evansville, IN) 15 Castle 69 16 78 Fort Wayne Dwenger 16 Castle (Newburgh, IN) 16 Evansville North 77 17 82 Evansville North 17 Bloomington North (Bloomington, IN) 17 Bloomington North 80 18 97 Bloomington North 18 Concord (Elkhart, IN) 18 Michigan City 87 19 102 Michigan City 19 Michigan City (IN) 19 Concord 89 20 123 Columbus East 20 Columbus East (Columbus, IN) 20 LaPorte 99 21 131 McCutcheon 21 Terre Haute North Vigo (Terre Haute, IN) 21 East Columbus 115 22 139 Seymour 22 Seymour (IN) 22 Seymour 119 23 154 LaPorte 23 McCutcheon (Lafayette, IN) 23 McCutcheon 122 24 157 Terre Haute North 24 La Porte (IN) 24 North Vigo 126 25 168 Hammond Central 25 Hammond Central (Hammond, IN) 25 Floyd Cent 145 26 170 South Bend Adams 26 Floyd Central (Floyds Knobs, IN) 26 Anderson 169 27 173 Anderson 27 Goshen (IN) 27 Goshen 173 28 174 Goshen 28 Anderson (IN) 28 Hammond Central 175 29 180 Floyd Central 29 Adams [John] (South Bend, IN) 29 SB Adams 179 30 217 Munster 30 Munster (IN) 30 New Albany 183 31 222 New Albany 31 New Albany (IN) 31 Munster 186 32 237 Hammond Morton 32 Morton (Hammond, IN) 32 Morton 238 6A Sagarin Calpreps Massey Class Rank State Rank School Class Rank School Class Rank School State Rank 1 1 Indianapolis Cathedral 1 Hamilton SE (Fishers, IN) 1 Hamilton SE 1 2 2 Brownsburg 2 Brownsburg (IN) 2 Brownsburg 2 3 3 Center Grove 3 Cathedral (Indianapolis, IN) 3 Cathedral Indpls 3 4 4 Hamilton Southeastern 4 Center Grove (Greenwood, IN) 4 Center Grove 4 5 5 Carmel 5 Westfield (IN) 5 Westfield 5 6 8 Ben Davis 6 Fishers (IN) 6 Ben Davis 7 7 10 Crown Point 7 Davis [Ben] (Indianapolis, IN) 7 Carmel 8 8 11 Fishers 8 Carmel (IN) 8 Carroll-Ft Wayne 10 9 12 Carroll (Fort Wayne) 9 Carroll (Fort Wayne, IN) 9 Fishers 11 10 14 Westfield 10 Lawrence Central (Indianapolis, IN) 10 Crown Pt 12 11 17 Warren Central 11 Zionsville (IN) 11 Lawrence Cent 14 12 18 Lawrence Central 12 Crown Point (IN) 12 Lawrence North 16 13 19 Lawrence North 13 Franklin Central (Indianapolis, IN) 13 Warren Cent 17 14 24 Penn 14 Warren Central (Indianapolis, IN) 14 Zionsville 18 15 31 Franklin Central 15 Lawrence North (Indianapolis, IN) 15 Penn 20 16 37 Lafayette Jeff 16 Penn (Mishawaka, IN) 16 Franklin Cent 23 17 38 Warsaw 17 Noblesville (IN) 17 Noblesville 32 18 44 Noblesville 18 Avon (IN) 18 Jefferson 37 19 46 Avon 19 Jefferson (Lafayette, IN) 19 Avon 41 20 55 Zionsville 20 Pike (Indianapolis, IN) 20 Warsaw 42 21 63 Elkhart 21 Warsaw (IN) 21 Elkhart Cent 49 22 75 Homestead 22 Elkhart (IN) 22 Homestead 54 23 76 Lake Central 23 Columbus North (Columbus, IN) 23 Pike 60 24 79 Pike 24 Homestead (Fort Wayne, IN) 24 Col North 68 25 94 Perry Meridian 25 North Central (Indianapolis, IN) 25 Lake Central 71 26 95 Columbus North 26 Perry Meridian (Indianapolis, IN) 26 N Cent-Indpls 79 27 98 North Central (Indianapolis) 27 Lake Central (St. John, IN) 27 Perry Meridian 88 28 141 Portage 28 Portage (IN) 28 Portage 101 29 184 Fort Wayne Northrop 29 Northrop (Fort Wayne, IN) 29 Northrop 147 30 205 Indianapolis Tech 30 Southport (Indianapolis, IN) 30 Arsenal Tech 197 31 206 Southport 31 Arsenal Tech (Indianapolis, IN) 31 Southport 201 32 226 Jeffersonville 32 Jeffersonville (IN) 32 Jeffersonville 222

The 812FB Top 20 rankings is my opinion and based off not only the eye test but the averages of Sagarin, Calpreps and Massey ranking systems. East Central [7-2] Bloomington South [8-1] Evansville Reitz [9-0] Gibson Southern [9-0] Linton-Stockton [9-0] Lawrenceburg [8-1] Owen Valley [9-0] Evansville Memorial [6-3] Jasper [6-3] Evansville Mater Dei [6-3] Southridge [8-1] Castle [5-4] Columbus North [4-5] Evansville North [5-4] Terre Haute South [6-3] North Decatur [9-0] Bloomington North [5-4] Tecumseh [8-0] Northview [6-3] Boonville [6-3] HM: South Dearborn [7-2], Vincennes [4-5], Heritage Hills [5-4], Charlestown [8-1], Sullivan [5-4], Perry Central [8-1] Sectional Top 20 & HM Matchups #6 Lawrenceburg [8-1] at South Dearborn [7-2] Vincennes [4-5] at #4 Gibson Southern [9-0] Perry Central [8-1] at #10 Evansville Mater Dei [6-3] Game of the Week: #16 North Decatur [9-0] at Tri [8-1]

The 812FB Top 20 rankings is my opinion and based off not only the eye test but the averages of Sagarin, Calpreps and Massey ranking systems. East Central Bloomington South Evansville Reitz Gibson Southern Linton-Stockton Owen Valley Southridge Evansville Memorial Evansville Mater Dei Jasper Lawrenceburg Castle Columbus North North Decatur Evansville North Bloomington North Vincennes Boonville Terre Haute South South Dearborn & Tecumseh HM: Northview, Columbus East, Heritage Hills, Charlestown, North Posey Week 9 Top 20 & HM Matchups #3 Evansville Reitz at #9 Evansville Mater Dei #18 Boonville at #4 Gibson Southern #11 Castle at #8 Evansville Memorial #17 Vincennes at #10 Jasper #12 Lawrenceburg at #20 South Dearborn #19 Terre South at #13 Columbus North Game of the Week: 4A #2 Indianapolis Roncalli at #3 East Central

Hats off to this site. Looks like a lot of work is put into it and I'm grateful to have another outlet to look up what others in 812FB think!

The 812FB Top 20 rankings is my opinion and based off not only the eye test but the averages of Sagarin, Calpreps and Massey ranking systems. East Central Bloomington South Evansville Reitz Gibson Southern Linton-Stockton Owen Valley Evansville Memorial Evansville Mater Dei Evansville North Southridge Lawrenceburg Castle Vincennes Columbus North Jasper Bloomington North North Decatur Boonville Terre Haute South South Dearborn HM: Tecumseh, Northview, Heritage Hills, Sullivan, Columbus East Week 7 Top 20 & HM Matchups #7 Evansville Memorial at #13 Vincennes #15 Jasper at #9 Evansville North Heritage Hills at #10 Southridge #16 Bloomington North at #14 Columbus North

Yeah no knock on your Alices was intended. You got a solid ball club up there in Knox County. That QB is something special. And I agree, I personally think Sagarin has weighed the SIAC 10-15 points too high. Thanks for sharing. That would make sense.