crimsonace1

Ah, DT again mixing up "contraction" (schools dropping programs) and "consolidation" (schools merging). I'm not sure why 280 is your magic number. I know you're often confused about the difference between high school and college football, but fewer schools does not mean more quality, because - outside of the largest communities, students aren't likely to jump schools. It just means fewer opportunities. If an isolated rural school drops football, that's 30 or 40 kids who simply won't get the opportunity to play football, not 10 talented kids that will go somewhere else. High school sports are about opportunities, and the fact that someone actually celebrates and gloats about reducing opportunities for participation in this great game on a high school website is absurd, but par for the course for certain people around here who traffic in absurd, off-base and usually uninformed hot takes. Those schools are consolidating due to finances and population changes in their communities. As Indiana suburbanizes, consolidation is a reality. But we may also see addition - like Fishers being carved out of HSE. Programs do not close for "poor results." They may close due to smaller numbers (and those are generally programs at tiny schools), but there are a lot of programs who went through 20+ game losing streaks that continue to run - and some are thriving.

Weight room strength, conditioning and speed/quickness can neutralize size. New Pal's D-line has a Big Ten DE who led the state in sacks last year on one side and a junior DE who has had FBS interest on the other, plus a very aggressive and talented LB corps. They're used to being outsized, but they've done fine. The other team has won 28 straight games and Friday's was the only one decided by less than 10 points. They're pretty good at football.

New Palestine's non-conference opponents for the next two seasons will be Decatur Central & Brebeuf Jesuit.

Obviously, this is a football site, but Providence has a powerhouse volleyball program, and Park Tudor had Yogi Ferrell, Trevon Bleuitt and a basketball team with 3-4 Div. I players (and a college coach running the show) pretty consistently for about a half-decade. Noll has fallen on hard times recently, but had a state-level program in the past in multiple sports. Heritage Christian built a powerhouse girls basketball program almost overnight, especially after Kelly Faris transferred in from Plainfield. Most p/ps only control their enrollment numbers if they reach building capacity, but otherwise, they're not going to turn down a check to stay in a lower enrollment class. I had a private school AD explain to me the main reason they're more successful is because they're parent-choice schools. Every single person in the building has intentionally chosen to go to that school for various reasons - academics, religious, smaller school, and yes, athletics. Therefore, you're going to have a greater percentage of the student body active and involved in school activites, including sports (and success is likely to attract parents/students who want that). In a sport like football, where numbers can make a difference, a school like Cathedral might have 600 boys, but 125 go out for football and another 350 involved in other sports, band, drama, choir, et al. A similarly-sized public school might have only 70 go out for football and 200 in other sports & ECAs. I'm not sure how much of an impact this has, and this isn't an issue in football, but in sports like volleyball, basketball, baseball, softball, et al, where travel sports have a *significant* impact, you've already got parents willing to pay thousands of dollars a year to showcase their kid on an elite team. They're more willing to pay tuition for a better athletic experience for their children, too. You tend to see more movement in those sports - even between publics - as players move to play with travel teammates, et al.

... longer than that. It's been a topic *every* offseason since they walked off the field at Columbus East in 2013, usually by people who don't know Coach Ralph, don't know his connection to the community, and assume New Palestine is some flash-in-the-pan podunk school that's a waystation to "bigger" programs. I'm not sure how much "bigger" you can get than winning two state titles in the second-largest class and being ranked #1 in the state in MaxPreps. "Bigger" is not always better. This isn't college football, where Alabama has deep pockets and can pick whomever it wants and then have access to the best players in the country. Because schools are 100% taxpayer-funded, "bigger" schools really can't offer much more in salary - especially given what NP already pays (which is among the highest in the state). Really, in the Indy metro, "bigger" is just going to a similar school that might have more students ... and if you're patient, New Palestine will be there enrollment-wise in a few years. Its development as a community is not dissimilar to Center Grove or Brownsburg, but the growth is coming about 20 years after those communities'.

Wondering if this was a case that because there was a game after, and they were trying to clear everything for the next game, because we're talking 4A game vs. the last game of the day ... noted below. There's almost always a Colts game on Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend, so I can see that Lucas Oil might need the stadium cleared quickly on Saturday night so that workers can get the stadium ready (TV people run cable, set up booths, take up the hashmarks, clean the stadium, re-set the goalposts to NFL width, et al). However, I can tell you that we stayed on the air until the last players left the field Friday night, and the lights were being dimmed on the field as NP's last few players were leaving. We had a sideline reporter getting some postgame interviews and did a long postgame. As we were leaving, the stadium staff turned the lights out on the newspaper reporters still working in the press box.

Valpo looked pretty physically tough both on video and in person. I was really impressed with their willingness and ability to play smash-mouth football. They're aggressive and come after you. They're one of the most physical teams I've seen all year. NP might be a little bit smaller pound-for-pound, but those players live in the weight room and condition for playing two ways four quarters and play relentless, physical football.

Every AD in the state with a job opening wouldn't be doing his homework if it didn't at least call. I don't know if that constitutes "interviewing." But there's a difference between taking a phone call. He can have pretty much any job he wants, and yet, he's stayed in NP for seven years. Meanwhile, two very high-profile coaches left MIC schools in the last five years to coach in the HHC, which tells you a lot about the desirability of jobs in this league and area of the state. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. New Pal isn't Mayberry - it's a growing, upper-middle class community 15 miles from downtown Indianapolis with a tremendous amount of community support and a passion for football. You don't find that everywhere.

The Hoosier Heritage Conference is a pretty tight-knit group of schools and nobody is going to leave the conference for football only. There's really no place to go at this point - the Mid-State is already at 8 teams and while NP plays a lot of those schools in other sports, it doesn't have a real rivalry with any of them. Conference Indiana is a poor geographic fit and the schools are all 5A/6A enrollments and either Marion County township schools or small-city schools. The HCC is also at eight teams and are all *very big* 5As or 6As. Coach Ralph has said *many times* how impressed he is with the quality of coaching in the league, and he just helped spearhead a youth football tournament for 4th-5th-6th graders at all HHC schools. Mt. Vernon, Pendleton Heights and Delta are all solid programs that are getting better. The conference will be very competitive next year. Now, it's hard to project a decade into the future, but it's not out of reach to see MV, NP and PH all topping 2,000 students given how quickly things are growing. MV's growth is explosive, PH's proximity to Noblesville and I-69 will likely lead to additional growth, and NP is in the beginnings of an explosion of residential growth that will likely increase high school enrollment by 250-300 in the next 4-5 years. New Palestine's a pretty good situation. Football-crazed community, very well-established feeder program, culture in place with kids buying in, a school that pays its teachers well, good administrative support, growing community. Why leave that to start over somewhere else?

As someone who had watched both teams play (one live, one on video) several times, I expected a close game. Valpo matches up better with NP than any team the Dragons played, but NP was the better team - especially given it had to revamp its offensive gameplan on the fly because of Roth's injury (which also affected the defense, as a couple of guys who might have gotten a breather on offense now had to play every snap since Roudebush had to move from WR to QB). The pick-6 was forced by NP's pressure and a DB being in the right spot. It was a great, well-played game. Now, the second point, I have no idea what you mean by "this will change when people move into your community." What will likely change is that there will be *more* people (so NP will actually be a 5A school by enrollment). I'm not sure what you mean by where HSE & Fishers are - they're pretty good football schools with a lot of recent athletic success. Same with Center Grove (a very similar community to New Palestine in terms of demographics and passion for football), as well as Brownsburg, Avon, Carmel, Zionsville ... a number of suburbs that border Indy have experienced a lot of football success along with growth. While the community is enjoying this run, we know nothing lasts forever, but three state championships and four State Finals appearances in six years - all but one in a higher enrollment class - is incredible and we'll enjoy it for a long time. This is special, we know it, but understand NP's success isn't just because of move-ins and growth. The vast, vast, vast majority of players on this team grew up in the youth football program - which is huge and well-organized. We have 50+ kids per grade in pads playing football going down to first grade. The high school program is *very* involved, and many former players are coaching and teaching in that league. The football culture in this community is unreal. Now, will you have a team like the last two seasons with multiple FBS-level recruits on the roster every year? Probably not, but you do have a foundation for sustained success that perpetuates itself. And, honestly, if you're looking for a home in the suburbs and your kid is interested in football, why wouldn't you consider New Pal?

Their school districts border each other, but Carmel's school building is north of Zionsville's (barely). It likely will be determined by sectional groupings (Z'ville is more likely to be grouped with its westside neighbors Pike & Brownsburg, while Carmel is more likely to be grouped with its Hamilton County neighbors, which would likely put Carmel north if one has to pick). Snider (north) & Columbus East (south) are Success Factor schools who will go back to 5A unless they win a regional next year. Wouldn't be surprised to see Valpo get back to state in 5A and thus trigger the Success Factor and go north. A lot of their playmakers were juniors (and Valpo's enrollment has dropped below 2,000, which seems to be sending it to 5A long-term). For schools in Central Indiana, north/south is rarely permanent because it's determined by a *lot* of moving parts.

Don't ask for facts and consistency from a radio talk show hot take machine. It's not about facts, consistency and logic, it's about taking some extreme, hot-take opinion and shouting it as loudly as you can. Consistency? Yesterday's bad hot take is yesterday's.

I remember BD & North Central both playing games against Illinois and Ohio teams in the mid-1990s because they couldn't fill their schedules, in the days when it was *very* uncommon to play out-of-state games.

Remember, a realignment is happening after next year. Carmel will likely always be on the north/south border. As Zionsville likely moves permanently into 6A.

We'll worry about next year, well, next week. It will be a bit of a rebuilding year for the Dragons, as CaptainHook pointed out, a lot of key players graduate. But they do return 3 starting OL (and 1 other who started a few games), Roth, Blake Austin (who had a TD yesterday and was the second-leading receiver to Hook) and 2/3 of the LB corps. Virtually everyone else graduates. Some talent in the pipeline - the JV was 7-1 this year and the froshies 6-2. And there are about 1,000 homes either under construction or approved in the New Pal district, so there's going to be some significant growth, which will likely bolster numbers at all grades. But for now, we'll revel in this one. 28 straight wins, back-to-back state titles in a class above NP's enrollment, done with several players playing both ways. It's really extraordinary what this program has been able to do. A mid-sized 4A public school playing for three 5A state titles in a five-year span - and winning two - is beyond description. We're going to revel in this and enjoy it. It's a historic run, led by an outstanding group of coaches and young men. This team has a high GPA, a high commitment level, they're involved in the community, they're great athletes. They're a group of guys who are going to be successful long beyond high school ... and that's a big reason why they've been successful in high school.

NP is "gassed." 14-0 and just beat an outstanding team that was 13-0 to win the state title *without its starting QB* after beating Cathedral 35-10, after mercy-ruling the No. 8 team in 5A, but "gassed." I've watched almost every NP game for the last decade. They're not gassed. When you're wrong, and you're constantly proven to be wrong, you just need to stop talking instead of trying to talk in circles to prove to everyone how "right" you are. All we have to go by are on-the-field results. NP beat CG 28-9 AT Center Grove, and did so by dominating up front (where CG has a tremendous DL) in the second half. ... which came one year after NP won 31-9 over a different CG team, but one with Carson Steele. We're not discussing a hypothetical game that will never happen, we're discussing the game that was played.

NP is 14-0 with a three-touchdown *road* win over Center Grove, a 6A finalist. If CG wins tonight, you can pretty well say NP is the undisputed top team in the state. NP is currently #1 in MaxPreps and will be top 40 nationally at season's end It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out in Sagarin (right now, it's Avon-Carmel-NP, but if CG wins, combined with the ratings bump NP will get for beating top-10 Valpo, there's a good chance NP will also be #1 in Sagarin if CG wins tonight)

Per the IHSAA, there are 11 Carmel 5286 (MIC) Ben Davis 4499 (MIC) Warren Central 3821 (MIC) North Central 3727 (MIC) Fishers 3509 (HCC) Penn 3338 (NIC) Lake Central 3316 (Duneland) Pike 3295 (MIC) Hamilton SE 3273 (HCC) Avon 3095 (HCC) Noblesville 3001 (HCC) 5 MIC schools, 4 HCC schools and two in Northern Indiana As far as the rest of the MIC, LN is at 2596 (16th), Center Grove at 2521 (17th) & LC at 2290 (23rd). Both Center Grove & Lawrence Central have won football state titles this decade and Lawrence North is a traditional basketball power, so they seem to hold their own despite "only" having 2,000+ students each.

The girls basketball team that won the state title two years ago? (In hoops, a MIC team has played for a state title three straight years. Girls: Pike was the runner-up in 2017, WC the state champ in 2018 & LN the runner-up in 2019; Boys: BD won in 2017, WC beat Carmel in 2018 & Carmel beat BD in 2019). Add in Center Grove playing for the football title this year, and that's six of eight MIC schools having played for a major sport state title in the last three years. (Add to that, LC has won state titles in track & football this decade; and North Central has state titles in five different sports, including boys & girls hoops, this decade, and swept the state track titles this spring).

Not to feed the trolls on what is and has been a dumb, throw a stupid idea against the wall and see what sticks topic, but LC & LN are both Sagarin Top 25 teams this year. They're competitive programs, but the MIC is a great conference. And of course, there are more sports than football (which our thread starter appears to not realize), and LC & LN both hold their own in several sports. Both have *recent* state championships on their resumes.

"A little worn down" - had 160 yards and the go-ahead score against one of the state's best defenses (if not the best). He also had two big first-down runs to seal the game when everybody in the stadium knew he was getting the rock. I've watched nearly all of Charlie's games the last couple of years. He looked anything but "worn down." Valpo is really, really, really good up front and he had to work for every yard. But consider the source ...

I thought going in Valpo would be NP's biggest test, and it was. I expected this to be a one-touchdown game (and it was). Unless you play in the MIC, every conference has 2-3 struggling teams. The HHC had 2-3 struggling teams (against which Spegal really didn't play a lot), a couple of decent teams and three pretty good ones. Spegal's biggest games came against the top teams on the schedule. He rushed for 1,200 yards and 17 TDs alone in the five tournament games.

New Palestine's field lights are on. AD Al Cooper explained at the postgame pep session why the lights were on and encouraged those in attendance to keep the Bowsman family and the WW community in their prayers and thoughts.

Any team would be fortunate to have the all-time leading rusher and scorer in state history. It takes a team to be a state champion - especially when you're a 4A enrollment school playing in a 5A tourney. He's a great kid and a great player. But he's also running behind five really good linemen. Hook was likely more in the gameplan, but when Roth went out, that took a lot of the passing game out of the playbook. Hook did a lot of damage on short crossing routes this year & then getting YAC, and you could see early he was a big part of the gameplan, but changing QBs meant changing the offense to fit Roudebush's strength. Roudebush did a *tremendous* job running the offense.

"Stats are a little bloated" ... quite the opposite. Against the lower-half of the HHC, he played a half, maybe one possession into the second half. I'm really, really tired of people claiming all of this happens because of a "weak schedule" that happened to include a regional champ and a semistate champ in the regular season. The upper half of the HHC was a Yorktown team that was ranked part of the year in 3A, a *very* good Pendleton Heights team, a similarly good Delta team and Mt. Vernon, which won a regional. He had nine 200+ games this season - against Center Grove (6A finalist), Mt. Vernon (4A regional champ), Whiteland, Franklin, Cathedral & Bloomington South - the latter four coming in consecutive games in the 5A tourney, all four against teams that were ranked at some point in the year (also against Greenfield-Central, New Castle and Delta). To insinuate he piled his yards up against weak competition isn't really accurate.