CaptainHook

9 hours ago, temptation said:

Speaking of New Pal, I saw somewhere that Mount Vernon had some players participate in some rude behavior the other night after scoring.  Can anyone in the know elaborate?

Was some stomping on the Dragons logo at midfield while the team was in post game speech.  They smoked us.  If you don't want that to happen, play better, in my opinion.

Dragons are just not very good right now.  You could say their losses have come vs three ranked teams, but that's not totally being honest.  We'll see what they are made of in the final six or so games of the season.

On 9/10/2021 at 6:37 PM, JHgwood said:

Who is the RB playing Special Teams in the Big Ten?  Don’t you have to dress to play?

still some bitterness from those two games, huh?  Spegal dressed and got a carry yesterday.

On 8/28/2021 at 3:14 PM, Grover said:

Where did the New Pal posters go?

Still here.

Dragons are very young this year.  4 seniors on defense and 2 on offense.  Really should have beat DC, even with a ton of mistakes, it came down to a FG attempt.  Brebeuf is a good team that gave our young secondary all kinds of problems.  Time to head into conference play and see what we've got.

Just now, TigerFan20 said:

Just saw the Roncalli-Mooresville score, yikes

Roncalli is good...I tied to tell everyone last week.

36 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Pretty nice to be able to play all your postseason games on your home field. 

NP played sectional, regional, and semi-state championships at home in 2019. Luck of the draw.

will this game be on Friday or Saturday?

Watched the game last night.  Roncalli looks really, really, really good.  Just dominant on the line of scrimmage.  They have not been good the last couple years.  New coach make that much of a difference?  New Pal JV took a mash unit to Roncalli the last week of the regular season, and the Rebels (can I still say that?) have some nice young pieces as well.  Impressive turnaround.

1 minute ago, foxbat said:

Or from Illinois to attend an Indiana public school.

I heard some shady stuff about this.  I'll leave it at that.

Just now, Trojanmp52 said:

I have always have felt P/P school should be in their own class.  One of the biggest reason was  they have no borders  they can get kids from anywhere.  I know that has changes with open enrollment.  Kids can go anywhere if they get  their, but with the P/P they can only get there if the parents can afford it.  

Yep, I used to think that too.  Or that they should bump up a class.  But I'm fine with how the TSF has worked out at this point.

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Mooresville beat Decatur and Roncalli is better than both Whiteland and Decatur. East Central or Mooresville (not sure how semi-state would like as Cathedral would shake up alignment) both better than Castle. No argument on 4A north however but not sure it really matters who Cathedral plays in Zionsville or Dwenger.

4A would be tons more competitive if the SF didn’t exists as some of the best teams in 5A are 4A by enrollment.

you are forgetting a bout a very large green school in the north

Just now, Lysander said:

Some years back, Coach Gallogly (good guy) and I spent some time debating after the initiation of the Success Factor.  I, frankly, took the position that we should just bump every P/P up a class and be done with it because we would end up having the same arguments in 5-6 years anyway.

With all that, I kind of think the Success Factor is working.  I actually enjoy seeing what the Success Factor has generated in the way of matchups (admittedly, my enjoyment as a fan is irrelevant).  Still, I don’t think it’s fair to the classes that follow the successful classes ahead of them.  Insofar as publics go, Columbus East and New Pal were able to sustain that success through several multiple student classes but eventually it will catch up with you and one group of kids is going to find themselves well beyond their ability to enjoy playoff success.....and that bothers me more than a little.

To an extent, I’m not sure this discussion is even happening now if Cathedral was not having a possibly historically great team this year...maybe next year as well.  

Nonetheless, I’ve been pretty open about saying I’ve wanted Chatard to play in 4A for years....at least before it was hollowed out.  For now, though, I am thinking the Success Factor comes closest to fairness...particularly with some of the point adjustments to staying up. But I’m not so sure the automatic class bump is fair for everyone else....I sure as heck don’t think a 2.0  multiplier is.

 

Agreed with all.  I think the TSF factor has done a great job.  Like I said, the only problem was it almost allowed Cathedral to slip back to 4A, which would have been a mistake.

5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

This year? I don’t agree.

Path of Roncalli/Mt Vernon (sectional), Mooresville (regional), East Central (semi-state) is just as hard, if not harder, than Cathrdral’s 5A path.

MV was terribly overrated.  They hadn't played a really good team all year.  Whiteland beat Mooresville.  Zionsville, Dwenger, Valpo all very good.

Roncalli may be 5A good though, they looked HUGE and dominant last night.  Should be a great game vs Mooresville next week.

7 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

So is it the success factor or the Cathedral factor? You can’t have it both ways. It would have been disappointing as a fan to watch Cathedral play in the 4A tournament this year although I don’t think there’s a huge difference at the top of 4A and 5A this year once you take Cathedral out of the equation. But it’s not an arbitrary rule on a case by case basis, it must remain the same for everyone.

Cathedral playing in 4A tournament created the TSF.  It has effected a lot of schools.  And for the most part has worked.  

Top of 5A is much better than the top of 4A.

I have no idea what you are arguing with me about.  Cathedral doesn't belong in the 4A tournament.  Period.

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

All P/P’s aren’t Chatard or Cathedral, not even close. Saying Park Tudor or Bishop Noll should play up a class because Cathedral and Chatard punch above their weight is ludicrous. It’s why the success factor, and not a multiplier or auto 1 class bump, exists.

Agreed.  I think the TSF has worked better than I expected.  Except for Cathedral almost sliding back to 4A.

This will be just as lopsided, if not more, than last year's south semistate between Bloomington North and New Palestine.

Cathedral will only be challenged at state by Valpo.  That game will be closer than everyone thinks.

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

How about actually played at Delta High School before ending up at New Pal?

It doesn’t matter though. Someone from New Pal of all people should know it’s the way you put your pads on that determines success. 

I think all privates should probably play up one class, due to the advantages over public that they have. I did not think tournament success should apply to public schools.  But now that it has happened, it has worked out ok.  Columbus East and New Palestine have shown the ability to compete when moved up.  I do not think a public school should be allowed to bump up two classes though.

The Tournament Success Factor was aimed at Cathedral.  For the most part, it has worked, bumping them above their irrelevant 4A enrollment.  Just take a look at the number of kids on Cathedral's roster compared to a 4A school, and it will tell you they don't belong there.  The fact they were willing to move back down to 4A in 2019 is laughable.

As for Spegal, the Dragons would never have won back to back 5A's without him.  But would have won back to back 4As (where they belong).

19 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Exactly.
 

It has nothing to do with enrollment and everything to do with building and maintaining a successful program, starting with the feeder systems. As a fan of New Pal, you of all people should know this.

Except I can name 5 NP kids that went thru the NP feeder program only to go to Cathedral.

Enrollment should not be a factor for classifying private schools. This is why there is success factor and probably why someday there will be a multiplier.

Just now, Footballking16 said:

I don’t have a problem with the success factor. But operates under a different set of rules? Are you telling me P/P’s turn down as many kids as they accept? Hence the reason for a 2.0 multiplier? Roncalli operates under such a different set of rules they only have 1200 kids and not 2400 kids?

Genuinely trying to see your point of view. Mount Vernon didn’t lose to Roncalli last night because of who Roncalli accepts and doesn’t accept. I’ll tell you that much right now. Silly to suggest otherwise.

You keep talking about one game.  Why do we have the Tournament Success Factor?  If enrollment is what everything should be based on?  Privates have an advantage in building their sports programs.  Just look around the last 25 years.  Enrollment has nothing to do with it.

25 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

How many people do you think Roncalli is turning down a year? Serious question.

With as much negative attention as Roncalli has gotten not just in the local, but national media the last year and a half, they aren’t in any position to turn somebody down.

Isn’t MV’s starting QB or WR from Chicago? Who transferred in this year? MV didn’t have the option to decline his enrollment? It’s a two way street.

C'mon man.  This is the very thinking that led to the Tournament Success Factor.  Privates operate under different rules.  If you can't acknowledge that, I'm done here.

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

And you’re delusional if you think Roncalli is somehow calling their enrollment to remain in 4A.

That's not what I'm saying at all.  But enrollment numbers mean nothing when classifying a private school

1 minute ago, Muda69 said:

Hmm, under current open enrollment legislation can't they decide not to allow out-of-district transfers?  Sounds like a way to grow or limit enrollment to me.

Also a government school corporation could decide to build another high school if current and future enrollment growth supports it.   

What are you talking about?  MV must accept all students within their district.  Doesn't matter if they can play football or not.  Privates have no district.  They can control the make up of their student population.

1 minute ago, DT said:

You make many statements that would lead one to assume that you have inside information   Im just challenging your sources of information and calling you out on it.  Now I understand you DO NOT have any inside info and are simply giving your opinion, like the rest of us.  

I just told you what I saw firsthand.  Better than any of the drivel you spout.  You didn't even watch the game you predicted as the upset of the decade.  In fact, I doubt you watch much football at all.

4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

It’s the only fair and logical way to classify teams. If your team has enough success in its enrollment-based classification, you move up. It’s not really a hard concept.

Most people would agree that there is a six year old or two good enough to compete and occasional beat a 10 year old in a game of basketball. Most people would also agree that 10 year olds playing other 10 year olds, makes a lot more common sense than vice versa. On the rare occasion the 6 year old is good enough, he plays up (success factor).

You think Mt. Vernon’s socioeconomic demographics are that much, if any, different than Roncalli? 

Mt. Vernon cannot control or limit the size/make-up of their student population as a public school.

4 minutes ago, DT said:

Is it your understanding that there has never been any internal discussion or disagreement relative to the idea of Cathedral playing in 6A?  Do you have first hand knowledge of this?

How would I know if there is internal discussion?  All I know is what I saw.  We were all at the Indianapolis Colts 7v7 tournament when the news broke that Cathedral would be staying in 5A and not moving down to 4A.  Their coaches were not happy.  If they weren't happy about staying in 5A, I'm willing to guess there was very little interest in moving to 6A, lol.

I watched this game.  Total domination on the LOS by Roncalli.  MV was simply overmatched.  I had a feeling that this would happen.  The Marauders turn the ball over a lot.  They have a lot of snap issues.  And quite honestly, they hadn't played a really good team all season.  

Not to defend DT, but you cannot use private school enrollment numbers to compare them to public schools.  That's been the issue for a long time.