MDAlum82

No idea on what Coach Goebel's thoughts may/may not be in regards to retirement but curious why so many people in our society assume someone will/should retire once they have reached a certain age or attained a certain level of success? 

By all accounts, Goebel still enjoys coaching football & teaching so why would he retire?  Few of us truly get to do something we love and when you are so fortunate, why would you stop "just because"?  My guess is eventually "something" will move the needle towards retirement for him.  Possibly something related to his health, he is ~ 70 yrs young, or potentially his political career - he has held various local gov't offices for the past 20 years or so, or maybe, when the right person to take over as head football coach comes along, ala Greg Schaefer for the wrestling program, retirement may seem more attractive to him.  Who knows?  

Time will tell...until then, I hope the players, coaches and fans allow themselves to enjoy this State Championship!  I was at the game in 2000, the last time Mater Dei won, and never thought it would be 22 years until the next one came along.  You just never know...

7 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

I know we have something like 100 plus kids (all corporation schools combined) that are commuting in from other districts.  The one to our North and the one to our South seem to be popular.

That is a larger number than I would expect coming in from out of district.  What do you think is the attraction?  What percentage of your enrollment does this represent? 

Looking for a comprehensive list of all Private & Parochial schools in Indiana.  For accuracy purposes, I am looking for a vetted source - IHSAA, etc., not your cousin Bob's list...

Thanks in advance.

1 minute ago, Cappy said:

I’m including freshmen, I could be wrong but would guess most 2A public schools include freshmen on the roster. Guessing the P/Ps don’t have to dress freshmen or use them for practice. Including freshmen we had 44 players at the start of the year coming off a conference championship season and 9 wins last year. Including freshmen MD probably had 85-90 players it’s not apples to apples. 

Fun fact we dressed 39 healthy players against MD, they had that many coaches/staff/trainers/doctors on the roster

MD rarely dresses Frosh until they get to the playoffs.  This year they added 6-10 frosh to playoff roster, many of whom will need to make a contribution right away next year.

It is not lost on me that the sheer number of volunteer coaches Mater Dei has been blessed with makes them unique and provides the players with a great deal more 1 on 1 coaching & attention.  I know this is not the case with many/most schools and we are very fortunate.  

4 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

It's really not even about roster size....rosters have dead weight as well.  Who is paying for your service?...people who put a high value on it.

Families who put a higher value on the service still produce slow, unathletic, 140 lbs WRs & DBs who see the field for 3 plays their entire career or play in the band or are on the Speech & Debate Team Club or who don't do anything extra-curricular in nature - i.e. "dead weight" from a football classification perspective and they produce them in similar numbers as other schools do.  Trust me, I have this in my own home where one child was involved with exactly ZERO extra-curricular activities in their 4 years at MD, but had a 4.0 GPA and a close knit group of non-athletic friends.

Yes, there may fewer of these at MD with an enrollment of 600 vs a large public school with 1200, 1500 or 2000 kids but some people like to act as if the zombie apocalypse occurred in their school and 50% of the kids are infected and all they do is walk around the halls eating their more athletic classmates.

4 minutes ago, Cappy said:

As are Nolan and Carter Schickel. In a few years Nolan (freshmen at MD) could be a starting WR/DB and his brother Carter (8th grade) could be a starting QB/DB at NP.

 

I didn't want in this conversation just presented numbers about the 2A tourney and the success of the P/P schools, I'm just going to say we do not see things the same way and that is ok. I don't feel sorry for Pike Central when we beat them almost every year and I don't expect MD to feel sorry for us. I don't see the IHSAA changing anything anytime soon so our 40 - 50 football players will have to learn to outwork the 80 - 100 football players at MD. Same for our 6-8 coaches will have to outwork the 20 or so coaches at MD.

Unless you are including freshmen, I don't believe MD has ever had "80 - 100" players on the varsity team, even back in the initial years of real success back in the late 1990s & early 2000s when the roster was truly huge because every kid wanted to be on the team.  Typical is 60 - 70, not including frosh - still very good numbers but hardly "80 -100" cited.  Here are roster numbers for last 5 years from Max Preps. 

Now, they could fill a Hadi Shrine clown car on Thanksgiving with all their coaches, there is no disputing that!🤡

28 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Then what you have must be called denial.

It's not just a river in Egypt...

6 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Well done with Google!  Did your parents also pay for a private education?  It's simple really....does MD have numbers we can observe regarding kids how participate in extracurriculars, go on to post secondary programs, GPA, etc.?

Nice attempt at deflection.  You don't actually have any "proof" so you try bait & switch.  Again, I respect your "opinion" but do not accept it as "fact" or "truth" simply because you fervently believe it.  fwiw, here is another Google snippet for you paid for with my private education dollars....it might help you resolve some of your confusion over truth vs fact.  

Too many people believe truth and fact are the same thing. If something is true, it must also be a fact, right? Wrong.

A fact is something that’s indisputable, based on empirical research and quantifiable measures. Facts go beyond theories. They’re proven through calculation and experience, or they’re something that definitively occurred in the past.

Truth is entirely different; it may include fact, but it can also include belief. Oftentimes, people will accept things as true because they fall closer to their comfort zones, are assimilated easily into their comfort zones, or reflect their preconceived notions of reality.

Fact is indisputable. Truth is acceptable.

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

And this kids is what is wrong with the world today.  My truth, your truth (how about our chakra?)....good lord.  Facts are facts.  The fact is, based on provable, irrefutable, empirical evidence is that P&Ps have a totally different student base that is grossly more homogenous, and this in itself is HUGE.

So we can establish a baseline for an "Apples to Apples" comparison and an informed discussion, this is what "empirical evidence" means.  Please reference the sources for your "provable, irrefutable, empirical evidence".  

Empirical evidence is the information obtained through observation and documentation of certain behavior and patterns or through an experiment. Empirical evidence is a quintessential part of the scientific method of research that is applicable in many disciplines.

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

Grown men who know the truth will continue to lobby for P&Ps to stay in their enrollment class and claim it is "fair"....every year I just can't wrap my head around that.

The "truth" is typically what the individual wants it to be or perceives it to be.  That does not make it the truth, it makes it their opinion based on their experiences and beliefs.  While I respect someone's right to have their own opinion, how strongly that opinion is held does not make it the "truth" nor make it "fact".  It is still an opinion.  

On 11/20/2022 at 11:48 PM, slice60 said:

2021 Andrean vs Mater Dei   (1)

2022 Andrean vs Mater Dei  (2)

2023 Andrean vs Mater Dei???  (3?)

Yawn.

For those mathematically challenged, SHOULD this scenario play out, it would be magical "3 years in a row" which seems to be the acceptable norm among posters...

26 minutes ago, Wildcat1992 said:

So what's the game plan to slow down Bowen?  Double Clacks and load up the box to stop the run?

Hope he misses the bus?  😁

Loading the box to attempt to stop the run seems highly likely...and then hope to put enough pressure on QB for some errant throws...stay tuned...

3 hours ago, Lysander said:

To be somewhat clear on this whole thread, I essentially ACCUSED the IHSAA of Gerrymandering in another thread to put all the P&Ps in the same sectional(s) whenever they possibly can.  My point was if they didn’t intentionally do this then the Success Factored teams might actually stay “up”.  Certainly the case with Chatard/Roncalli.

Having Chatard go North in 4A and Roncalli stay South would arguably be the “non-Gerrymandered” (I am straining the King’s English to a breaking point here) result that would actually result in what most want (likely including Chatard) - Chatard to no longer be in 3A.

My opinion has long been that the IHSAA had less of a problem in football with P&P’s overall than it had a specific problem with Chatard in 3A and Cathedral in any class excepting 6A.  Certainly the same could also be said of LCC in 1A.

Well…they solved their Cathedral “problem”…..at least for the time being….even artificially shortening the “bump-up” timetable to do so.  They put LCC on a Sectional island…solving that problem.

The Chatard 3A problem only required them to keep Chatard and Roncalli (and probably Chatard/New Pal these days) in separate sectionals.  It’s a very easy fix and, frankly, just the opposite of Gerrymandering.

But the IHSAA does so love artificially eliminating P&P’s in Sectionals whenever possible that they continually lose sight of the Success Factor “big picture”.

So, I would argue that the remaining P&P problem is an actual result of the IHSAA’s historic Gerrymandering.

Appreciate the insight into the story behind the question.  I understand your position much better now and, I actually agree with it.  Thanks.

It says digital tickets can be purchase "during business hours" but does not say what those are.   "Assume" ticket window will be open at least an hour before the game like the gates but also hate to "assume" anything with IHSAA & Ticketmaster...

 Digital tickets may also be purchased in person at the Lucas Oil Stadium Box Office (without service fees) during business hours (credit card or cash purchases only).

Lucas Oil only allows for E-tickets so I went online to buy them for State Finals. There is a $5.60 per ticket fee PLUS a $5.60 per order fee for a total of $16.80 in FEES ..wth? 🤑

1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Think about this, do away with the sectionals. Seed the top two in a region, blind draw the rest. 
Thoughts?

This harkens back to the old "pod" system in the 80's.  Unfortunately, under this system, there were many occasions "deserving" teams did not even get in the playoffs. 

Easy to see a team like FW Luers NOT make it due to their season record yet still be one of the better teams for their class/region.  Now, to deal with these situations, you have to create a review committee and a set of rules to govern these kinds of scenarios which makes it subject to human bias...which was the genesis for the "all teams get in" movement in the first place.  

10 minutes ago, BendNotBreak said:

So let me ask u... is Chatrard a wolf or a sheep?  Seems to b a wolf in 3A but more of a sheep in 4A... 

Honestly, while I am a fan of high school football, I really only follow my high school, which is currently in 2A, and other teams from So. Indiana. I don't follow Chatard or other teams outside of my area not in 2A.  However, I think it is accurate to say that MOST, not all, but most teams that are bumped up, find little success at the higher level and fall back to their original class in short order.  One exception I am aware of is Evv Memorial, who moved from 2A - 3A - 4A over the past decade and have had a high level of success as each level.  Certain there are other examples from other parts of the state, I am simply not familiar with them.  I believe LCC has moved up to 2A and back to 1A at least once in recent memory, possibly twice(?)

28 minutes ago, BendNotBreak said:

Ĺcc's current main competitor/predator w a pedigree is the Kings... then some others rising... not like they were thrown in w Andrean... like they did w Chatard and Dwenger...n b dropped back down to 1A.. Like Chatard like Dwenger... its jus Stupid.... Depends on what programs ur thrown in with.. Lcc will jus compete w whoever is in front of em...  and they did well enuff to stay up.... could they hav beat SA or Luth again... mayb... mayb not.... The IHSAA ain't gonna do anything anytime soon... it's how they roll..... but they could Gerrymander Sectionals for repeat offenders... that Some peeps want off their streets.... jus not in my back yard..... n on it gose....

Uncertain what you are trying to say here:  " but they could Gerrymander Sectionals for repeat offenders... that Some peeps want off their streets.... jus not in my back yard..... n on it gose...." but your concern seems to be with teams that have easier/more difficult sectional paths..but I may be missing something ...

Sectionals have always been geography based to a large extent to reduce travel times & distances, largely as a safety and financial consideration for the schools involved.  These are HIGH SCHOOLs we are talking about with limited budgets, resources.  Success in sectionals has always been a case of who "ur thrown in with" (SIC). At some point - Regionals, SS, etc. you have to play the better teams.  Would you propose teams from North of Indy play in in a sectional in southern/northern Indiana, 3-4 hours away to appease some sense of "fairness"?   

20 hours ago, jets said:

Not because of the Success Factor 

 

The reality is Mater Dei has been fortunate in the timing of most of their deep runs.  Last year was year 2 of previous SF cycle and this is year 1 of new 2-year cycle.  They finished with 5 pts, 1 shy of 6 needed to be bumped  up to 3A. This has happened a couple of times since the SF was implemented.  fwiw, many see next year to be a bit of a "rebuilding" year so uncertain what to expect.  Lots of talk about current frosh and 8th grade teams as next back to back classes with a good deal of football talent from what I have heard.  Time will tell.

42 minutes ago, BendNotBreak said:

the idea is.. should the wolves be separated out amongst the sheep ... where they have no natural predator.... then let the SF do its thing till an equlibium is reached.... jus looking at it from wildlife mgmt perspective.... 😄   Think the SF is a failure ... at least w regards to 1A 2A 3A....after that... numbers start to kick in for the publics and ur just left w Cathedral to deal with....

So is LCC a wolf or a sheep?  Seem to be a wolf in 1A but more of a sheep in 2A.  Why is the SF a failure in your eyes?  How does gerrymandering address the issue(s)?

3 hours ago, LuersLurker said:

I live in South Carolina.  Can I still watch them?

You can watch online here:  https://www.ihsaatv.org/    Not certain about the cost. 

 Locally, Bally's shows all 6 Indiana State Championship games for free on Spectrum Cable but no idea about outside the local network.

You can  also find the IHSAA Champions Network on Roku, Google TV, Firestick and other streaming services.

Also, fwiw, MD has moved up to 3A on 2 occasions previously then moved back down to 2A.

These scenarios also have to occur within the same 2 year period.  The IHSAA reorganized after last year so this year is year 1 of next 2 year evaluation period.

I forget the origin of the now often used quote:  "You cannot stop him, you can only hope to contain him", but it certainly applies here with Bowen.  Few, if any, would argue Bowen will be the best player on the field.  That being said, even the best players have off nights or someone else steps up and has the game of their life to negate them.  Ref. Dan Dakich guarding Michael Jordan in 1984 Sweet Sixteen.  

1 hour ago, TigerFan20 said:

tough way to lose in a close game. From what I saw on Twitter, but nevertheless, a great way to end the season strong!

Please elaborate...haven't heard much about this game yet.

This game did not go the way many thought it would.  While I expected - hoped for -  a MD victory, I never thought MD would put up 24 pts before LS has its first 1st Down.  Best offensive half this year, IMO.   MD scored on every possession.

One often overlooked aspect of the high school game is the kicking game.  IMO, a good kicking game can such be a BIG factor in high school.  The Marx kid put every KO inside the 5 with lots of height so kick coverage could easily get down the field.  The Miners' BEST starting field position in the first half was the 20 yd line on a touchback. 

Coach Knight's defensive plan worked really well too.  The MD Defense completely stifled the LS offense for most of the first half. The Miners only had 1-2 first downs when Gennics took it to the house from about 70 yds.   LS made a run, closing to 31 - 16 at half but that was as close as it would get.  The curse lives on for at least one more year...