scarab527

6 minutes ago, Bullhorn99 said:

And it's impact on the coming season.

Agree or not, DE's response addressed the original question with a suggestion about how to get more butts in the stands, to increase revenue and hopefully avoid cost-cutting measures. Did it not?

Getting the average amount of fans back you would’ve expected this year next year will not recoup the losses of this year. The only way to do that will be to draw fans to cover next year and the losses of this year. His proposals do nothing to address that. 

37 minutes ago, temptation said:

Then why do people get so outraged when college coaches do this exact same thing?

It’s about the kids...until it’s not.

I think it comes down to the fact that college coaches make promises to recruits that high school coaches obviously do not make. I don’t think that comparison works here. 
Edit: For transparency I personally don’t care if a college coach leaves for a better job either. 

Just now, DE said:

You didn't offer a solution b/c you wouldn't have the slightest idea how to fix it.

Sit this one out Junior.

All you did was parrot something you heard a talking head say on the news. The more I see you post, the more I’m convinced there’s not a single original thought in your senile brain. 

Just now, DE said:

Sorry that this "cranky old man" is correct, Junior.  

Whatever makes you feel better about not being able to read, gramps. 

5 minutes ago, DE said:

Yes. And I offered solutions. Did you read it?  Did you offer suggestions?  Didn’t think so. 

The question was about lost athletic department revenue from this season. No one was talking about covid next season. I feel bad that a cranky old man like yourself has such trouble with reading comprehension. I didn’t offer any solutions because I don’t think this will be a problem. 

9 minutes ago, temptation said:

Just wish that folks would speak the truth and unfiltered...the young kids at BD, Mount Vernon and Warren deserve it.

What he said in 2017 could’ve been true for him at the time. But that truth could’ve changed. 

35 minutes ago, DE said:

If you do not feel well, stay home.  If you want to wear a mask and social distance, feel free.  Get rid of contact tracing.  Open the gates. Voila.

Did you even read the question he asked?

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

Could absolutely be true.

Guess I’m more of an old school “till death do us part” kinda guy.

People’s words don’t expire in my world, do they in yours?

The numbers/“grind” are the same on the east side of Indy as they are on the west side.

Generally I don’t fault coaches, or anyone for that matter, for leaving one job to go to another they feel is better for them. Yes I don’t like people going back on their word, but circumstances can change in 3 years, it’s a little unfair to expect someone to feel the same way now as they did then. Coach Kirschner might’ve gotten from MV the break he needed at the time, he could’ve realized he missed the grind of the MIC and working with a larger number of kids. I’m sure he has his reasons, and as you’ve been alluding to, I don’t doubt that winning in the tournament is part of it. 

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

I guess your best team in school history getting curb stomped by Roncalli in the tournament tends to change your priorities.

I wish him well but “coach speak” needs it’s own dictionary these days.

In 2017, he needed a break from “the grind” and wanted to “work with smaller numbers of kids.”

I like Mike and have never heard anyone utter a negative word about him.  I wish him well.  Home run hire for WC.

I think you’re being a little too cynical here. For some guys coaching their alma mater is a dream. Seems that way here. I wouldn’t read into it anymore than that. 

17 hours ago, SSHS said:

Could KK win at CP? I doubt it. Kids today are not tough enough to buy into his coaching style. 
 

This comment shows just how wildly out of touch certain members of GID are lol. 

Just now, Bobref said:

Not for me to say.

Fair.

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

I hope the way he left Morton doesn’t make either of these schools shy away from him if he’s interested. 

Backstory? I’ve always wondered why he left. 

54 minutes ago, Jim Beaver said:

With the right coach and staff both programs could be be good.  Maybe CP better job at this point for next year as they could compete more quickly.  People talking about Mason...should be talking about Roy Richards as possibility as well.  I don't disagree that City will have a decent team next year with some returners coming back, but to place them as a the conference leader I think is premature.  Even with losing some players, Valpo and Mville will still be tough to beat.  Mville has best talent in conference,  Valpo has not  lost in over 21 games.  Chesterton has their star quarterback back I believe.  And Laporte was much improved by end of year with a talented junior class.  Do not count them out.  They will be tough.

Roy Richards would be a great hire for either school. Did a tremendous job at Morton and was also the AD there I believe. As for the other stuff, I didn’t mean to insinuate that Valpo or Merrillville won’t be competitive next year, but with the level of talent both programs are losing, they will undoubtedly take a step back. I honestly believe Valpo was overrated this year to begin with, their regular season streak would’ve ended this season had they played Merrillville. In my opinion, the de facto DAC title game will likely be between Chesterton and City next season. If I were a betting man, I’d put my money on one of those teams winning the DAC in 2021.

17 minutes ago, DT said:

The Holy Grail of high school coaching in Indiana is the 6A championship trophy.  Mason does not have access in his current position.  Hes always struck me as a career driven guy who measures his success as he steps higher up the ladder.  Only one step left on the rung for him.  

I agree with you to an extant, but I just don’t think he views either CP or LC as an opportunity to actually challenge for a 6A title. I also think at this point in his career he just wants to hoist another state trophy, regardless of what class it’s in. Right now, City is probably the best-positioned of any DAC school to compete for a state title in the next few years because of their slot in 5A and the talent they have coming through. Like other posters, I also doubt his desire to take on any sort of rebuild this late in his career. I really think it’d have to take the perfect job for him to leave City, and I don’t think CP or LC are that job. 

25 minutes ago, DT said:

CP is a very buttoned down community.  Mason is a t shirt, sweat shirt kind of guy.  

While I agree with your comment, I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that before coaching at MC, Mason coached nearly a decade at a school where many parents were doctors, lawyers, and other white collar professionals (even though he gave some speeches where he seemed to forget this fact, lol).

34 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I am not disagreeing with your statement here, but looking for more insight. What reasons do you believe Merriville and Valparaiso will take a step back over the next few years? Too much talent loss from this season's teams for each and not enough in the pipeline?

Bingo. Valpo just came off stacking 3 very good classes, but the next couple of classes have not been as good. They’ve still got some studs (the younger Jones brother, Hayden Vineyard), but the lack of underclassmen talent really hurt them this year, and they had to put everything on the shoulders of their seniors. The Vikings’ regular season unbeaten streak comes to an end next year. Merrillville was bolstered heavily by covid-driven transfers, who are now either graduating or rumored to be transferring back to their previous schools. Like Valpo, the cupboard won’t be completely bare, and there’s talent in the pipeline, but I don’t believe the Pirates will have the level of talent they had this year for awhile. City, on the other hand, returns nearly all of its impact players from a young team and also has some young studs coming through their pipeline. Their outlook the next few seasons is, in my opinion, the brightest in the DAC. 

10 hours ago, DT said:

Lets assume for kicks and giggles that Phil Mason is the coach whom both schools have identified as their #1 target.

Mason's background and accomplishments are well known.

If you are Mason, looking at the last job of your coaching career, which do you pick?  CP or LC?  Lets assume the compensation is the same at both schools.

As someone who knows Mason, I’d be willing to bet money he isn’t leaving Michigan City for either of those jobs. Don’t know about the “cultural fit” problems at CP, but I’ve always been under the impression that he has no interest in coaching LC for various reasons. No clue why he’d want to do that now either, LC’s program is a mess from top to bottom. He’s established himself at City, turned the program around and has laid roots in the pop warner league. With Merrillville and Valpo about to take a step back in the DAC the next couple years, City looks to be the team to beat in the conference for the foreseeable future. Highly doubt Mason leaves, but hey I could be wrong. 

7 minutes ago, temptation said:

I don’t know.  Everyone on here told me for months that BD and WC were destination jobs and that the suggestion that they were a shell of their former selves was overstated.

I’d still think that many coaches view WC as a destination job and that many will be chomping at the bit to apply for it. 

29 minutes ago, temptation said:

What’s with all of the outrage?  Pretty factual piece other than the private/parochial quote.

I think the whole “rigged” allegation is a little extreme to say the least. 

8 minutes ago, temptation said:

Excuse me for being naive and not very knowledgeable about The Region but have suburban Chicago area schools not a viable option for DAC schools to play in the non-conference in the past?  Seems closer than Lafayette in some cases.

Michigan City played Homewood-Flossmoor a couple years back. Definitely a possibility for DAC teams and good competition as well. 

58 minutes ago, boilerfan87 said:

In my proposal, all those guys make it. WeBo was already undefeated vs. sectional 37 opponents in the regular season. Luers was as well against sectional 35 opponents. Zionsville is 5A so all 5A teams would make it in this proposal. It would be all about district standings and I say top 4 or 6 out of 8 would make it. If you do 4, you maintain your simple playoff structure. If you did 6, the top 2 teams would have a bye on week 1 of playoffs. 

? Luers hadn’t played any sectional opponents in the regular season. WeBo only played one in Southmont.

What about New Prairie and Marian in the NCC instead of West Side and EC?

10 minutes ago, DT said:

Weve been hearing a lot of complaining out of the SAC about the ful round robin and the lack of non con play.  Problem they have is too many bad teams in the bottom half of the conference.  Nobody is complaining about the full round robin in the SIAC because you have big games between competitive programs every week.  

This was kinda my line of thinking with the split division approach. Clearly this new DAC would be deep, but there’d still be dogs like LC and Portage in it. Having some non-conference slots would allow the better teams to avoid the conference dogs to schedule some better games. 

25 minutes ago, DT said:

Weve discussed this many times over the years here on The GID.  It always comes down to time zone travel issues.  

I would certainly think that a football only partnership between the DAC and  Penn-EHS would make plenty of sense for both sides.  Surely schedule makers could come up with a model where DAC schools make one long trip east per year to alternately play Penn and Elkhart.  Michigan City, Laporte, Penn and Elkhart are almost a mini conference themselves.

I would have no problem seeing these ten schools come together in a full round robin format and eliminate any non con additional travel.  There are enough good matchups within the ten to eliminate the need for non con play.

As soon as this happens, you can probably expect Marian to bolt for the NLC.  

As a supporter of the Penn program, what is your sense regarding the level of support for a Penn football only move to The DAC?

The more I’ve thought about this, the more I feel like it should get done. Penn and Elkhart would benefit from playing larger schools throughout the regular season and the DAC would gain 2 very solid programs that would highly increase the level of football played in the conference. I was skeptical about the travel distance and time change before but I don’t think those factors should prevent this from happening, there’s too much to be gained. If the Northern schools want a chance of beating Indy in the playoffs, they’re going to have to up their level of regular season competition. This move would do that. I’d probably support an East/West Division concept, with CP, LC, MVille, Portage, and either Chesterton or Valpo in the West, and the rest of the teams in the East. Play every team in your division, 3 from the other division, and leave 2 slots for non-conference play (can’t get behind any closed conferences). 

5 hours ago, Bobref said:

And this is the problem. There is an entire generation of coaches and fans who have never known anything but the all in, and who, as a result, have been infected with the “entitlement” mentality. It is exactly the opposite of the valuable lessons football is supposed to teach us: that nothing comes without earning it, and that you only get back what you put into it.

If the practical reality of trying to run an all in tournament with that many schools is the only reason states like Ohio don’t have an all in tournament, what about those states that have a lower number of football playing schools than Indiana? There are 33 states that have a lower population than Indiana, and about the same number that have fewer schools. What’s their excuse? Ohio has had their taste of the all in. If it’s a superior system, people are going to start beating the drum for change. But I certainly don’t hear anything like that coming from the East.

The fact is, the all in format makes the regular season less than it could be. The adherence to the all in system limits Indiana football. Do you even know the history of the all in format? It wasn’t a measured decision, arrived at after conscious deliberation on the question of what is best for Indiana football. It was done to settle a lawsuit, and to avoid any criticism of the IHSAA over selection or seeding. Not very good reasons. But the “justification” for the all in has been lost to time, as the vast majority of coaches, administrators and fans have never known anything else. We went from 64 schools in the playoffs (a little over 20% of the schools) to over 300. If the problem was that not enough schools made the post-season, then increase the number. But the IHSAA just basically threw up their hands and caved to the easy way, the way that doesn’t require anything more than just showing up. Interesting, we laud the high school football experience for what it teaches kids about life: work hard and you will be rewarded, you get what you earn, etc. But our all in format teaches them the opposite: you can give less than your all, including basically giving nothing, and still make the tournament. By doing so, we are missing the chance to reinforce those life lessons. And it’s those valuable lessons football teaches that justify us letting our kids do to one another that which would get them arrested if it happened on the street.

While I genuinely appreciate the history lesson, I disagree for a couple reasons:

1. I don’t think the all-in format breeds entitlement whatsoever. True, the tournament has gotten rid of the idea of ‘earning your way’ into the playoffs. But the tournament has replaced the idea of earning the playoffs with earning sectional/regional/state trophies. I doubt any kid in Indiana feels any sense of ‘entitlement’ about winning one of these trophies. A by-product of this is you also don’t get the “well at least we made the playoffs” excuse you see in other states, and teams put priority on winning those playoff trophies because none of them think just getting to the playoffs is something to be proud of. This makes kids not settle and not be complacent, which I would definitely consider a good life lesson. 

2. I do not think the all-in format diminishes the regular season at all either. The kids want to win every single game they play in, the fact everyone makes the playoffs does not change that. Also add in the fact that the all-in format has resulted in many teams scheduling the hardest in-season competition they can find. If we went to a qualifying format, you’d see teams schedule more cupcake games and drop some of those great regular season matchups (CG-Cathedral, for example). If anything, the all-in format ends up increasing the level of competition in the regular season, as teams strive to play the best opponents to gear themselves up for the tournament. 

3. The current tournament leads to some unpredictable results. This year, you had 3-6 Leurs, 5-4 WeBo, and 4-5 Zionsville all make runs to the state finals. Would these teams have made it into a qualifying playoff format? How many big upsets or wild runs to LOS would we be missing out on by adopting a qualifying structure?