BLACKGOLD2007

The idea was teams that play on turf more than in grass, schools would grow out their grass in hopes to slow them down some. It was a joke, because I have been very open that we were outclassed that night.

Sorry, I don't have the document on hand. I believe I read it on this message board. Also, the pre-game video they showed had him saying they were there to make history.... That game, he (play calling) was deliberately throwing the ball in the second half. The Carmel game just like the Warren and the future Ben Davis games were all won by half. I was at all three games, that one, was the worst of the three. No grass still. We would have had to grow the grass long, to try and slow down the beast that was Warren Central. The crazy thing is the weekend before we played the game of our lives against Snider, a very talented team....They just didn't have Tardy and Co.

155 lb center....must have had the heart of a lion....thank you thank you...I will be here all day folks.

That is a lot of two way players.

That was the first time any of my generation had witnessed Penn get the brakes beaten off of them. We thought we would be in a dog fight, but....the freaking speed was insane. The Ben Davis game, was probably the best all around team I had ever seen on a high school football field. Crazy thing is we just watch Penn dominate a strong Carmel team....and well you know the rest.

The Ben Davis thrashing doesn't bother me as much. Penn made a bunch of weird mistakes in the first half that, we had not seen them do in a very long time. Not fielding kick offs, muffing kick offs. It was a tragedy. I don't fault Ben Davis for beat the living hell out of Penn. My biggest issue was the Carmel game at state...they were deliberately throwing the ball on Penn in the second half. The coach was the same guy from Warren, and wanted to make it a point that Carmel should have been in the North and it should have been an all Indy final...He ran the score up to embarrass us. And he did exactly what he set out to do. Penn has not been competitive in any state finals....maybe consider the Center Grove game, close....Since Gees left. I personally have no angst towards Ben Davis, I do hate Carmel though.

I have seen my share of lopsided defeats, mainly to MIC/central Indiana schools. Ben Davis being one of them. Warren and Carmel coached by the same guy, decided to make a Joke of Penn in two state finals. It was ugly, it was also unnecessary. We don't get style points or a chance a national title amongst the other state title winners. Then Penn gets thumped by Ben Davis in state, the two head coaches are supposedly friends. We sit here and throw out words like professionalism, from my understanding, is the kids play the game, if our own coaches wont call of the dogs on our own state rivals, why should we expect and outsider to do so? I don't think Ben Davis, Warren or Carmel have ever suffered embarrassment like that, but maybe they should. It is one thing to score until half pull the starters and the back ups score....it is unprofessional to throw the ball up 35+ points in the second half with starters on the field. Sorry, I am coming off as a cry baby, but perspective helps....especially if you have never been handed your butt on a platter and then read on these very threads you don't deserve to play in games like that. If Ben Davis holds IMG to less than 50 points, and scores more than once....great freaking game. But, if they get 50, 60 or 70 hung on them... I empathize with them....it sucks.

The Penn teams of the 90's were strong up front on both sides of the ball. Most of their games were won in the trenches.

To be honest, I was shocked to see Penn on this list. They are in the same sectional as a surging Carroll, and 3 out of the last 4 seasons have ended at or around .500 last year was an improvement. The only thing I can understand is they had success with underclassmen last season. They return a large group of young men who contributed this year. But, I would agree 9 might be high.

Coaching helps, players in South Bend may have all the talent in the world, but cannot win a game because the coaching is either inconsistent or just not good. Also, every year is different: lack of Senior leaders, sometimes the size of a senior class helps or hurts, a crop of undersized players come through, the best players in the school are specializing in their preferred sport. But, the best coaches can overcome these issues. May not always win state or make it deep, but they will get the best from their players.

Fort Wayne representing in this list

This is the first time I am seeing the IFD Dandy Dozen, are these the 12 teams they are saying to watch in during this season??? Because...Penn at 9??? I mean they return some key players on O and D, but this team will need to make leaps forward to compete with Carroll for sectionals.

That 96 Portage was 9-2 going into the Penn game. That is a good win, especially away from home for the Kingsmen, was the score close, yes.

But, escapes are apart of the game. My Junior year we gifted Mishawaka 14 points and had to play a perfect game the rest of the way to push the game into overtime, which is where escaped with the W. In sectionals we beat them 28-7 and then blanked them 39-0 in my senior year. Sometimes, teams you just play a bad game, good teams find ways to win. You are correct, about the one man's escape is another's good win.

I wish I could have been at those games. The man has a point. It is hard to compete when the most densely populated area in the state is churning out studs year in and year out.

Well, the beauty of it is, Snider may bounce up and down between 5A and 6A if they hit the success factor, but when it comes to the far northern teams. Penn, Warsaw, Elkhart and the DAC schools Carroll is on the path to be that team that reps the area of the state in semi state for the foreseeable future. Penn was in Semi-state in 2011 and 2013-2017. That is a strong stretch of football where Penn had a stranglehold on the DAC and sectionals 1 and 2. Carroll could do this, their biggest threats right now are Jeff and CP.

Not sure if you guys were at that game, but Penn packed it in early that night. CG's best play that night was their last play which almost led to a score. Gees was not a fan of running up scores on teams.

WOOF 4 year series between CG and Carroll....Carroll's AD is going for the top fish in the sea!

Well, I think getting beat by Cathedral snapped Center Grove back into reality. To be fair the South is more of a meat grinder than the north in 6A. Carroll, if their trend upward continues, looks to be the new Penn, where they will be looking at Semi-State each year. The game against CG was a perfect storm, Carroll's first ever state appearance vs 4 in a row for CG. How do you overcome that kind of confidence when the seniors can say we have been to state four years in a row. I think CG is the top program in the state and has been that way for the last 10 seasons, maybe more. Center Grove will always be a strong favorite over any team from the far north.

Well, we haven't been to state in a while but, it will be interesting to see how they turn out for the first Mishawaka game since Waka left for the NLC. I think games against teams like St. X are great and all, but it does not do anything for the fan base, because they probably assume we will get demolished. But, games like Snider were always exciting regular season or playoffs. I would be interested in seeing Penn play Dwenger and Snider more often, at least we would get a taste of what Carroll is playing each year.

I mean, I could have easily thrown Penn in there...being a homer and all, but the last 3/4 seasons really kill that mood. (2 appearances (combined loss total of 91-30 with 3 regional championships.) It is comparable to a couple of the schools up there. (I only highlight the score issue, because it makes me mad) With the Fort Wayne Schools I love Snider, but in the last 10 seasons they have won 1 title and their loss to LC was season 11. Dwenger, I will admit, I missed that one.

I was flipping between two sites, and man I will tell you the names started to blend after a while. In regards to the small schools in 1A and 2A, I am just not familiar enough. So, I could have curbed it by saying like 3A and up programs. That might have been more fair. Idk.. Not perfect, but interesting to do.

So, I am going to try my hand at this. I am going by just the last ten seasons. 1. Center Grove (Has been in 6 out of the 10 state title games, 4 wins) 2. Cathedral (Won 4 titles in 5A, and been competitive in 6A) 3. Chatard (4 state title wins in last ten seasons in 3A) 4. Carmel (Has been to 5 state title games in last 10 seasons, winning 2) 5. Westfield (Has been in 4 state title games total, winning 1 in 5A, 2 appearances in 5A and 2 in 6A) 6. New Palestine (Has 4 state appearances, 3 wins and 1 Regional championship) 7. Ben Davis (Has 2 state title wins and 4 Regional championships) 8. Columbus East (Has 3 states, 2 wins and 2 Regional championships, in 4A and 5A) 9. Valparaiso (Has 2 total appearances, 1 win and 2 Regional championships) 10. Evansville Mater Dei (3 state appearances, 2 wins and 1 Regional championship) **The notation of Regional Champ is for seasons that ended in Semi-State, the years the teams won or appeared in state is not included in those numbers

It really does depend on the distance of the game, how the season is going and/or if they actually have a chance at winning...those are the three benchmarks that will determine if Penn travels well. There are home games the students don't even show up for. It could just be a cycle, idk but it is frustrating. I remember when we went 10-2, in that year we beat Ben Davis, Valpo and Toledo Central Catholic....but lost two games to Mishawaka....then went 7-5 the next season again losing to Mishawaka twice...I thought the sky was falling then...Having 3 seasons of around .500 football had my family considering not getting season tickets anymore. I adopted the fan of the game mentality with the NFL, I just cannot care enough with that league.. I am more fluid with college, but I plant my flag in the ND section first. High School, since we are surrounded by rivals, schools I love to hate, I struggle cheering for them. I find myself paying attention to Snider, the DAC schools and the Indy teams each week.

What happened to Carroll in the state game is what unfortunately happens often to 6A schools from the more northern parts of the state. It however, does not reflect poorly on Carroll. They realized that you have to play teams from central Indiana to have a measuring stick as to where you are that season and where you might need to be to win state. Penn utilized their rivalry with Ben Davis as a measuring stick for years. I am very interested to see how Carroll handles weeks 1 and 2 this season.