temptation

I respect that. Some in the coaches/AP poll agreed with you actually...here's looking at your Marcus Freeman.

1. Not emotional at all. Just ask for people to justify their opinions with facts. I did so in the Steele thread and you didn't like it. I am completely open to differing opinions as long as its grounded in something factual and not emotions/tropes that are tossed out there by the talking heads. I may get heated but at the end of the day its just sports. We are all passionate about it as we visit this site daily but its not life or death. Don't flatter yourself. 2. You are once again picking and choosing. Why does UGA get a pass for struggling with Mizzou? Why does OSU get a pass for struggling with Northwestern? Michigan dominated a damn fine Penn State outfit (could have honestly won by much more) yet Ohio State was trailing in the fourth quarter against them? I stated that I think OSU was a better matchup for UGA than Michigan but we will never know. I can pick and choose too. 3. Had UM won at the last second or in one possession games, that would be a valid argument but they won both going away in DOMINATING fashion. You have once again cherry picked (17-2) your data which spans over multiple coaches for both teams. Yes, Harbaugh is 2-5 against OSU but is 2-1 against Day. A much more relevant data point than using the last two decades. OSU fans and players have once again convinced themselves that Michigan beating them was a fluke and I hope they bring that same mindset into next year's game (though I think UM should be favored actually). 4. Michigan had many poor decisions against TCU which led to their demise. TCU had the kryptonite to every Michigan defensive play call at the perfect time it seemed. Michigan almost got home on multiple blitzes that resulted in big plays/TDs for TCU. Credit to them. But once again, you are viewing this through one lens. Michigan scored 45 points, allowed TCU's defense to score 13 (missed XP) and had more first downs and more total yardage. A loss is a loss and you are allowed to have your opinion but don't magnify it as a one sided affair. 5. Jim and the AD are in negotiations right now as it relates to his base salary, assistant coaches pool, commitment to NIL and most importantly, his buyout number. The latter is the main hold up on the negotiations as Michigan doesn't want to go through this annually, nor should they. I see both sides. Jim says "look at that clown up in East Lansing that is making $9+million" and "look at what other schools are doing as it relates to NIL and compared to our current "sanctions"" whereas Warde (Michigan's AD) is countering with pause due to the "sanctions" being spoken of and Jim's annual interest in the NFL. I'll tell you this. The NFL is plan B as of now, but if these negotiations aren't wrapped up by the middle of next week I think its bad news for Michigan. As always, respect your opinions...just disagree with most of them.

It's behind the ESPN paywall but FEI is a similar metric. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa/fei/overall/2022

So close losses matter more so than head to head huh? That 22 point road win (should have been 29) was a fluke I guess. I hope the Buckeyes bring that same energy they have the last two Novembers into Ann Arbor again next fall.

I’m torn because I sort of agree but S&P (an advanced analytics tool that I respect and trusted by many bettors) just gave UGA its highest rating for a team in 15 years. Michigan and OSU picked the wrong night to crap the bed. Both were damn close to an all-time ratings classic had they pulled it off.

Just feel like if you are a member of a football message board, you know and are passionate about the game, that's all. Doesn't "concern me" at all.

Noted. So three appearances. Bama, Georgia, Clemson, Ohio State and Oklahoma are the only ones that have done that thus far. At least you are consistent. Where do the Sooners (6-7 this season and 0-4 and blown out in 2 of their appearances) and Clemson (two consecutive seasons finishing outside of the top ten) fall in your "tiers"? Do they have to re-prove themselves?

No doubt. But were they unbeatable?

LOL... 2015-2019: "He can't beat MSU or OSU. He needs to be fired." 2020: "See, look. 2-4. Michigan football is dead. Harbaugh is a failed experiment. Rival fans: I hope Michigan keeps him forever!" 2021: "Well, he beat OSU but that was a fluke and it was at home. Anyone can get lucky. OSU will remember that and get revenge next year. MSU still beat them and they got stomped in the playoffs." 2022: "Beats OSU and MSU by 22 points each but he can't win a bowl game! (But I hope he goes to the NFL...)" "Making the show regularly" doesn't include 2 consecutive playoff appearances I guess. Man, a lot of shade and hate for the #3 team in AMERICA here fellas. I can definitely see the second part of your statement but I am not on board with his temperament being better for the pros, especially when it comes to relationships with his players. They love the man and would run through a brick wall for him.

I'd tell you what the insiders are saying but you'd just mock me for claiming I have "boots on the ground." May I ask why?

1. You (and another user on this board who shall remain nameless) throw shade and pretend my opinions are invalid and that I don’t matter but follow me around this board to chime in on them every damn time. Others advise you to just let me be because “ I’m so off base” but you just can’t help yourselves. 2. If you read above, I agreed that Michigan isn’t on UGA’s level…but at this stage NO ONE is. I can even see your point on Bama as they were two fluke losses away from running the table and they have the hardware to justify it. 3. Even you have to admit that at the very least Michigan is OSU’s equal. Once could he viewed as a fluke but two consecutive three possession victories in which the best offensive line in America (not my opinion, validated by two consecutive Joe Moore award trophies) ran the ball down the Buckeyes’ throat legitimizes the point. 4. One bad night against TCU doesn’t change this. Why does Bama get a pass for letting Tennessee drop 50+ but you are digging your heels in on TCU running on Michigan? Why does Michigan still have to prove they are on OSU’s level despite doing to OSU what TCU did to them? TCU probably wasn’t #2 in America but they also aren’t scrimmage fodder. 5. If you read in depth about the “sanctions” Michigan is facing, make sure you do so without a drink in your hand as you will likely spit it all over your screen. Jim is exploring plan b, in part to the hypocrisy of the NCAA and I honestly can’t blame him.

Georgia by two scores. They are an exact replica of Michigan just bigger, stronger and faster. OSU (though not as complete a “team” as Michigan) is a much tougher matchup for UGA due to their speed and skill position talent. Just wish Michigan would have run the QB earlier against TCU. They waited too long to unleash JJ. Stetson burned TCU on the edges from the coin flip last night whereas Michigan chose to keep running into the teeth of the defense until it was too late.

Five years? What in the hell are we talking about here? When did that enter the equation? You have to re-evaluate every 2-3 max in my opinion as you can’t continue to live off past glory. TWO in this case as 2020 was an absolute sham and should be thrown out (ask Michigan/Indiana fans). That being said, Michigan has entered Ohio State and Alabama territory firmly behind UGA but deserving of being in front of tier 3. Now they need to prove they are not a flash in the pan like Clemson was. Clemson was clearly in tier 1 but it’s apparent to all after these last two campaigns that that was due to Watson/Lawrence. Their last two seasons have been extremely underwhelming. The loss of Elliott and Venables cannot be overstated. Since when does “close for three quarters” matter? It’s not like UM ran up the score and padded stats by throwing the ball up late. They leaned on the Buckeyes for three quarters, wore them down and then the dam broke. 45-23 (should have been 52 as the Stroud “ forward progress stopped play” would have been an easy scoop and score) is a beat down in every sense of the word. As I said above, I believe you have to evaluate Marcus Freeman’s ND going forward independent of Brian Kelly’s. Freeman stopped the bleeding after a horrific start but a couple more single digit win seasons spells trouble in South Bend.

And if Michigan is playing at their best? Week 1 vs Week 13 but using OSU as a common opponent sure doesn’t bode well for the Irish. Had 9 months to prepare for the Buckeyes and could only manage 10 points? You said yourself that crazy things happen in rivalry games. Translation: Upsets happen and tight games are expected. Michigan dog walked the Buckeyes by 3+ scores. Not to mention, Michigan DESTROYED what turned out to be a pretty damn good Penn State team. Rest of the Big Ten was weak, I get that but the Irish lost 4 games and let powerhouses Cal, Navy and BYU hang around while dominating a vastly overrated Clemson team. If Michigan and ND play their game and both are on, Michigan is two scores better in 2023. This is not debatable.

Without a doubt?

Just stop. Michigan picked the wrong night to play it’s worst game of the year gifted TCU 13 points and crapped the bed inside the two yard line twice. TCU then played its worst game of the year last night (UGA had a lot to do with it just like TCU did 10 days ago against Michigan). You can’t look at final scores. So UGA beats TCU by 58 and OSU by 1. TCU beats Michigan by 6 who beat OSU by 22. It will never make perfect sense. It’s a matchup based sport, not played in a vacuum. Georgia is in tier 1 alone at this point. There is no debating that. There is a substantial gap after the Bulldogs which was proven last night. Yes, OSU had them on the ropes but Georgia deserves the benefit of the doubt based on the last two years. I don’t even know where to begin with your Notre Dame statement. Teams that lose to non-bowl eligible teams (Stanford) and non power 5 teams (Marshall) AT HOME aren’t anywhere near the top tier. Plus, you are attempting to compete Brian Kelly’s ND teams to the current ND team. Freeman/Harbaugh is a no contest at this point/stage. Kelly was a formidable opponent. ND will get a chance to redeem itself in 2023 and should win 9 games minimum. That’s still not good enough to put them up there with the big boys. Michigan’s schedule is setting up for another 11-12 win season and a shot at redemption. Will be fun to see it all play out.

True.

Chronically underrated? No. Never claimed that. He is an oddball. But an oddball that wins...at both levels. You'd take him right now, don't lie. One of a handful who actually has proven success at both the college and pro level. (Also, not going to debate coaching characteristics with someone whose favorite program was led by BRIAN KELLY for years....nut bag doesn't do him justice.)

Proof of an idiotic take that UGA, Bama and OSU's gap on everyone else is "unbelievably large." Two consecutive conference titles/playoff appearances is "all I've got"...damn. You really let your hatred of me cloud your judgment.

So OSU had "off nights" on two consecutive Thanksgiving weekends and lost by an average of 18.5 points? Michigan has rightfully earned the right to be in your "tier 1" (although right now I am not sure anyone other than Georgia is in tier 1).

I don't even know anymore. I know that he said last year was the end of it but the changing landscape of the college game really seems to be getting to him. The current NCAA "sanctions" are a joke compared to what is going on in other parts of the country. I am kind of indifferent at this point. Just want to get it over with and move on. His waffling hurts recruiting.

Proof of my claim above... Michigan has defeated Ohio State by a combined score of 87-50 over the past two seasons and finished #3 in the AP poll two consecutive years...and returns tons from this year's squad in 2023-24. Now, if you want to talk recruiting...those three are heads and shoulders above in most years. Is it feasible that once we expand to 12, we could have an all-SEC final four more often than not depending upon how the seeds play out?

I always bite on dumb takes.

You've somehow managed to play victim and bring Notre Dame into this conversation? Come on. NO ONE ever feels sorry for Notre Dame, nor should they. Pre-playoff they played by their own rules in the BCS and reaped the benefits. Join a conference for god sakes.

Mic picked up. Said the kid was more of a bruiser then he was a speed back. That’s it. That’s not “less than positive” it’s categorizing the kid. Track times don’t lie. I know the sport and might actually surprise you in knowing more than you think about how Moore runs his program. I’ve spoken to the man and actually coached against him. Steele never ran an open varsity 100 meter dash in a championship meet and never cracked the Trojans’ 4x100 lineup in a championship/tournament meet either. This is telling. I’m a huge Carson Steele fan. Love the way the kid plays and I made my reasons known for why I believe he ended up at Ball State above. His “football speed” speaks for itself but if I had to categorize the strengths, his speed would not be the first thing out of my mouth. It’s adequate but nowhere near elite. I mean his offer list (prepare to get your feelings hurt because that’s what you do) out of high school speaks for itself. If the kid had the strength to throw the shot put 50+ feet AND run sub 11 in the 100 (roughly high 4.5 in the 40) he would be coveted by every major college in the country…but he wasn’t. I’ve already schooled you on Russ. His 4.58 proves he has sub 11.0 100 meter speed were he to focus on the sport. I don’t mind being the villain and I’m sorry the two of you have a personal connection to CG therefore you are claiming some sort of disrespect despite the fact that I’ve spoken only truths on this subject. Mic is back on the ground.