temptation

If he is even close to the level of those guys, then let me be the first to congratulate Notre Dame on another CFP appearance...

LOL at the insinuation that "The Chosen One" belongs in the same breath as Stroud or Young. They should have capitalized "IF." ("IF my aunt had balls...") I think some of that Flint drinking water has made its way to South Bend.

Nicest thing you have ever said to me. Its a start.

I agree here and while your point is on the mark, it is still concerning. I made the analogy above to Avon being akin to the top Marion County schools in the late 90's and we saw what they were still able to do, particularly Warren Central in football. I have made the point that at a certain point the enrollment at schools like Ben Davis and Warren offset their SES disadvantages to an extent and while Avon is not there yet (near 4000+ students), I assume they can get there and still have time. Its a steep climb in the HCC though. Avon is treading water while most (if not all) other conference schools are trending in the opposite direction. Think CG and Carmel in the MIC...only the case could be made that the HCC will have 5-6 "CG's and Carmel's" by the end of the current decade.

Avon in 2022 is akin to the top Marion County schools in the mid to late 90s when it comes to SES and enrollment. Some folks do not like to hear it but certain sports lend themselves much more to students of varying socioeconomic backgrounds and ethnicities.

1990's: IPS talent flocks to the county schools. 2000's-2010's: County talent flocks to the suburban Indy schools. 2020's: Suburban talent continues to flock outward. Pretty simple to me.

1. They are trending the opposite direction of the other HCC schools in terms of SES. They hit the sweet spot 5-10 years go. 2. Avon has outgrown itself in many areas (drive down US 36 anytime between 4-6pm on a weekday evening. Families are more likely to flock to Brownsburg, Plainfield or Zionsville today. 3. The lack of middle school commitment by their athletic department. They use the intermediate school model (k-4, 5-6, 7-8, 9-12)...many 6th graders get lost in the shuffle and do not participate in athletics until 7th grade. This puts them at a disadvantage compared to their counterparts.

I think that Zionsville's culture and recent history of success allows them to get the benefit of the doubt...at least from me. They have great culture and one of, if not THE lowest free/reduced rate (you HAD to know I was going there) of any public school in the state. If they are indeed "down" this fall, it won't be for long.

Without taking the time to look things up, both have put their fair share of athletes in the collegiate ranks...

When you are historically 7th or 8th in the conference "rising" is the only direction, no?

Top 4 in the conference.

So the term "rebuild" comes with an asterisk?

I’m not sure why we are throwing dirt on top of Zionsville so quickly. While I agree they should take a step back, they’ll grow up via their tough regular season schedule and be fairly formidable once the tournament starts. I agree the move to 6A is poor timing but I don’t expect them to be HCC fodder either.

Might be even better if the transfer rumors I’m hearing are true. Several for FC huh? Surprising.

SOS matters…playing OSU, PSU and MSU annually with Wisconsin as your crossover vs a USC outfit that is a shell of its former self, FSU who has gone downhill, Stanford who is no longer elite, Boston College and NAVY annually. I might even concede the 10 year argument which included a coaching change for Michigan but 2020 (a year where ND played twice as many games and won 8 more than Michigan) really distorts your numbers. Let’s get back on the high school topic. No one is rooting for parity in 6A more so than this guy. I’d love for Carroll/Homestead to prove me wrong…I’m just no longer predicting it.

ND won an OT game at home in a frenzied environment against Clemson with their backup QB. Weeks later, Clemson beat ND by four possessions on a neutral field with their #1 overall draft pick under center. Substance.

You made the claim so confidently, burden of proof is on you. And the second matchup proved the first was a fluke.

Come on. Look at how he performed last year. That one off was an out of body experience. ND won in OT. Far from a formality. Look no father than the rematch weeks later. 34-10 on a neutral field with Lawrence under center

Come on. What metrics are you using? I’ll even take this argument to another level and throw some shade at my own program. Both Notre Dame and Michigan needed “acts of God” to win their biggest games in recent memory. ND had an amazing night game atmosphere and ducked Trevor Lawrence. Michigan needed Mother Nature to inject herself into the conversation last year to act as the 12th man against OSU. The Carroll and Homestead analogy fits…except they still haven’t broken through.

You said yourself that last year’s Westfield squad was on another level. Other then 2-3 games on their schedule, the Shamrocks simply showed up, took care of the football, played their game and rolled. I hate to break it to you but they didn’t have to take Homestead seriously. Let’s also not forget that I am talking about fanbases and folks in the stands. Coach speak and that transitioning to how the players perform is a completely separate argument. No coach in their right mind is going to publicly tell his players the same things he says off the record. The results speak for themselves. I actually predicted Homestead would hang in that game if you remember. I’m done falling for it until I see it actually happen.

Agree, but the title of this thread is “rising programs.” You can’t be considered as rising and be labeled as such unless you eventually have a breakthrough. They are cute 6A programs that no player or fan (excluding coaches) within a 30 mile radius of Monument Circle takes seriously or can even find on a map.

I even gave credit to O$U, lol. And yes, Michigan and ND are mirror images of one another. They are very much mentioned in the same breath. One just happens to play in the second toughest division in football and the other is an independent that has inflated its win/loss record recently because it’s “rivals” are all in the toilet. Unfortunately, both have also crapped the bed in games where they could prove they are tier 1. The Irish’s day of reckoning is coming. The night game at the Horseshoe…hope Coach Freeman is comfortable with some on the job training.

So a banner year is top one-third? Not much to boast about in a class with 32 teams. Not everyone can be elite.

This also applies to the next level. Outside of Ohio State or Clemson, no one else nationally can be taken seriously until they beat the brass from the SEC. The Buckeyes did it a few years back but are now on the clock. Clemson’s next 3-4 years will reveal their standing. Notre Dame and Michigan are “Midwest good.” Oklahoma is usually a cute offensive story. No one else is even in the waiting room.

IMO, you aren’t legit until you DO break through and beat a team from Indy. Both Carroll and Homestead are mid-pack HCC/MIC (8 team MIC) teams on their BEST days. You have to make noise on a state wide level to be taken seriously in this discussion. Until then, they are “Fort Wayne good.” Nothing more.