First_Backer_Inside

2 minutes ago, cloudofdust said:

Throw in the fact that the vouchers aren't beneficial to anyone in a rural setting and/or not within reasonable driving distance of a school that would accept them.

Even if you had the desire and funds for a P/P education, it's not feasible if the commute is absurd.

And yet, some will still do it for that Catholic education

I just want someone to tell me how p/p's, if there is no unfair advantage, continue to dominate the classes 1A-3A. That's all I want. And don't tell me they don't because since the SF there have been 33 state title games in those three classes. p/p's have won 18. They make up 10% or somewhere around that of the teams in those three classes. If there isn't an advantage, how do those numbers make sense. I don't want to hear they have a great weight lifting program. Public schools have that. Don't tell me its coaching. Public schools have that. Don't tell me its the youth program. Public schools have that. Don't tell me its a combination of the three. Some public schools have that. So what is it? I wanna hear a private guy explain it to me. You public guys don't win enough state championships, I want someone that knows football to speak on the matter.

Also don't tell me it's the same public schools winning because it isn't. Of the remaining 15 state championships, 12 different public schools won those.

45 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

26 Seniors from the team will graduate.

Wow that's an impressive class. Also a lot of big shoes to fill i'm sure

10 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Wonder what the odds are that they'll be put in the Sectional of Death?

Unlikely, too far NE. I'm not sure if there will be a Northern sectional of death this next year in 3A. I'm sure Geurin will be tough, not sure what Heights returns, but Peru graduated a lot of senior talent. Mac graduated one of their best QB's in school history stat wise. I'm not sure what Oak Hill returns.

Just now, BTF said:

Hence 80%. 

I think I misinterpreted your post. Certainly you're not implying that Chatard would win all them. 

Cathedral is 8-2 vs Chatard over the last 10 years. Again, 80%. 

 

No it was all complete sarcasm. Just repeating what I always hear about why Chatard is so good. 50 years of foundation laid for them to be where they are...or they are just pulling from 4 different feeder schools in Indianapolis. Take your pick.

19 minutes ago, NE8_Fan said:

What does the landscape in the 260 look like going into 2024?  Three teams advanced to state with 2 coming home with state titles and the third team accomplishing 3 straight trips to the finals.  

SAC- Does Snider run roughshod over the conference again?  Can they overcome graduation of a great senior class and reload or does Carroll rise back to the top after what had to be considered a disappointing season?  Can anyone crash the party at the top next year?  Who becomes the next major stars of the conference?  Snider and Luers bump up a class....how do they look to fair playing up a class?  Can Dwenger make any post season noise now that they went back "home" to 4A?  Is this new conference alignment ever going to really "work"?

NE8- What is the follow-up to Leo's championship season?  Can Brock Schott will the Lions to another NE8 title and continue his path of destruction?  Leo is another program that loses a great senior class has to fill a lot of holes with the likes of East Noble breathing down their neck.  Speaking of East Noble, trivia question, who scored the most points on state champion Snider last year?  The Knights did and they return a lot of talent next year, are they the prohibitive favorites in 24?  Can Columbia City make their way back to the top in Stratton Fuller's senior campaign? New Haven loses a TON of talent, how will they reload next year?  Will Bellmont ever get turf????  LOL

ACAC- Three straight trips to the state finals, regardless of the outcomes, is an incredible accomplishment and proves that Adams Central has earned the claim that ACAC has, in fact, stood for Adams Central Athletic Conference.  Can anyone change that?  Losing another crop of great seniors will be tough on the Jets but they are now to the point they just reload.  Can Heritage clip the Jets yet?  The Patriots are on a definite upward trajectory with no signs of letting up under coach Kolkman.  Does AC's "little brother" South Adams put themselves back into ACAC title contention?  

I think you've got to add Bluffton to the mix in the ACAC

7 minutes ago, BTF said:

1.   How was it proposed? Four year is what I've been saying it should be since it's inception. Programs typically go on 2-year talent runs. 

2.  Depends on how you tweak it. It really just comes down to this: How important is football at your school? All private schools could take advantage if they wanted to. But they all don't, so I would agree that a multiplier for all isn't the best solution. How about a multiplier for just the private football schools? I like it, but no way would the IHSAA go down that road, and quite frankly, I don't blame them. In the meantime, I guess we just settle for the 2-year cycle even though the majority would agree that 4 years is the way to go. 

3.  Agree, see #2. I can assure you, I think about that every time I reluctantly hit the 'submit reply' button when bringing up the multiplier. 

4.  Go to a 4-year cycle. If a team doesn't win a state title, they don't bump up. Period. 

5.  Agree. I was never on board with that. Cathedral would take home 80% of the titles. Probably because they are a football school and the largest private in the largest metro area. 

 

As far as football goes, Chatard beat them this year. I think they would take home all the titles. They are just too good. Their youth program is the best in the state. Weight rooms great. They have some of the best school lunches in the state or something like that...unstoppable football program.

20 minutes ago, FarmerFran said:

Its pretty well understood that p/p schools do have advantages over public schools, which is why parents that are able to offer these opportunities to their children send them there as opposed to public schools.  These kids, in most cases, have excellent family support and the opportunities to flourish in safer, more structured environments. If there were no advantages, parents wouldn't send their kids there. This translates to the football field.

A better question in my eyes is what makes the public schools that are traditionally successful, competitive most years. Small schools will always have ebbs and flows in talent, class sizes etc. What do Adams Central, Linton Stockton, North Judson, Pioneer, Webo, Sheridan, Eastbrook, etc do that make them successful consistently??? Is it weight room dedication, culture, coaching, game philosophy, youth programs?

I've always been of the mindset if you don't like losing get better. Trying to make a universal system of equity isn't going to happen, nor should it in my opinion, so go out and work harder/ coach better. Build up your regular season schedule to prep for the tournament, stretch your teams in summer scrimmages, participate in 7 on 7's and most importantly get your kids competing in the offseason (track, wrestling, basketball, etc)!

 

Outside of Adams Central, how successful have some of those teams been as of recent? Outside of Jack Kiser's years, how successful has Pioneer been in tournament play? A state runner-up, a sectional or two, and a regional? How does North Judson's success stack up against a Luers, Chatard, Lutheran, or LCC? Three straight trips to semi-state all losing by 35+. Same for Sheridan. Webo and Eastbrook can't make it out of sectionals anymore. 

I'm not disagreeing with you. All those teams are great programs with great football tradition. But they go four or five years before they go on a run again. The p/p's maybe have one down year before they are reloaded for four or five years, one down year and reloaded again. This is the difference in p/p's and publics. p/p's can get that guy or two that just takes them to a different level in the lower classes. Doesn't always happen but there is always the chance. 

36 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Quite a bit actually. What don’t you understand? There have been many years 2A football was really good and deep with 8-10 teams that could win a title. Not this year. Go back and watch 2A South and tell me that is good football. It’s not. Did it have some close games? Sure. Again, was it good football? 

I enjoy 1A and 2A football. I am not one of those people who bash on lower class football and think that 5A and 6A are the be all and end all. There have been so many great teams in 2A like Mater Dei, Luers, Eastside, LCC , etc… This year just was not one of those years. It happens
 

Triton Central, Linton Stockton, Brownstown Central...all good teams that played good football this year. North Posey only lost 10-0 to a Heritage Hills team that were the 3A runners up. Was 3A football in the south just not very good? 

What I don't understand is you saying 2A football wasn't good this year. The top 10 2A teams as a whole were better than the top 10 teams in 1A. If the list grows to 15 its still better than 1A. 20 still better. Same could be said when stacking up the 2A teams against 3A. and 3A against 4A. and 4A against 5A. So again no I don't understand how you can say 2A was the worst class in football this year. I don't know how you can say any of the classes had over 50% of their teams playing bad football. Were classes down in talent level from previous years? Yes, you can make the argument. Doesn't make it bad football. 

1 minute ago, kdets89 said:

The incessant weeping and gnashing of teeth displayed by overzealous public school fans around tournament time makes it difficult for private school coaches to enjoy the GID like any normal fan.  And that is a tragedy.

How are you not enjoying this thread? This is top notch GID entertainment.

2 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

I disagree. If you didn’t see LCC vs Luers in the semi-state from the beginning of the tourney not sure what to tell you. Please don’t even get me started on the South. There was quite a bit of banter amongst Luers and LCC fans how these were not even close to their best teams and they were shocked they got to semi-state, much less the winner going to state.

Great year for North Posey, but all it took for me was to see one possession offensively for them to know they had zero chance against Luers and it would end up a blowout.

Everyone knew from day 1 it would be Lutheran vs. Adams Central in 1A. No surprise there. Unlike some, I think Luers would beat both of them, but North Posey would get smoked by both teams

I'm just confused. So because Lutheran and Adams Central could beat North Posey, that makes 2A the worst class in Indiana High School Football. LCC and Luers don't have some of their best teams, that makes 2A football terrible? Exactly how much 2A football outside of the Semistate and State Championship have you watched?

9 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Lots of discussion about how down 2A was this year. I thought it was the worst class of football in Indiana this year by a wide margin

I think you are very wrong. Like stated about the NE for 2A was very solid. LCC was only down a touchdown going into halftime against the state champions. That LCC team played a very good Rochester team that went toe to toe with them. Laville played an excellent game against LCC as well. Just eventually got worn out in the second half. That Laville team beat Andrean who has gone to state the last two years. They also beat the semistate runner up in 1A NJ Bluejays. Alexandria played Bluffton very tough first round of sectionals and everyone is saying Bluffton was the second best team in 2A. 

Just because you had two very solid programs in 1A that could punch above their weight class so to speak, doesn't mean the whole 1A was better than 2A. I think you could say that about a couple of teams in every class. Outside of Chatard's sectional in 3A, how many other sectionals could a couple of teams in 2A have won. My guess is they could have made some noise in a few. Same could be said about some teams in 3A if they played in 4A and so on. I think Snider could have been competitive in the North for 6A this year. 

Reflecting on the tournament as a whole, i don't think there was a class that was down compared to the others. I think overall this was a very balanced tournament across the board. Obviously there were some classes that you knew the winner before it started but each class had a solid top 10 teams for their class which is what you want. To say any class was the worst in Indiana is hard to do in my opinion. I saw a lot of good football in 2A, a lot more good than bad. I think the North in 2A just had a gap that was a lot greater than what the South had this year and it made people think 2A had one good team and that was all based on the state championship.

3 minutes ago, Tippy said:

Some people on here won't be happy until all the P/P's do go 0-10.  Do you think Hammond Noll should be moved up?  

I don't know that is tough. I would have to look at their last couple years. Is them staying in 2A going to change anything?

14 minutes ago, Whitehat said:

How much in subsidies and grants does a ~3A public school get solely for these programs?

 I’d estimate it’s more than Lutheran’s entire annual operating budget.

2 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

As shown in the excellent information FarmerFran just provided your estimate is probably way, way off.

Can you please share what Indianapolis Lutheran's entire annual operating budget is?

 

 

I received a public education, not one of them fancy Catholic or Lutheran educations, so help me on this...what does any of this have to do with winning football games?

7 minutes ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

I said the last 3 years, never said anything about those other years, but while we are on that let's take a look at how many of those publics beat a private school at LOS. I count a total of 3 or 4 on first glance for all three classes throughout the entire SF era so yes it is hard for p/p's to win more than publics in 2A when there aren't any of the normal private schools in 2A or perhaps none at all some years.

Correction it was 5

1 minute ago, oldtimeqb said:

I always forget about Bishop Webo and St. Gibson of Southern. 

Why say "they" when what you really mean is Chatard and Lutheran?  

And there have been more public 2A champs (Rensy, Southridge, Monrovia, WeBo x 3) than privates in the SF era (Ritter x2, Andrean, Mater Dei, and now Luers)

 

 

I said the last 3 years, never said anything about those other years, but while we are on that let's take a look at how many of those publics beat a private school at LOS. I count a total of 3 or 4 on first glance for all three classes throughout the entire SF era so yes it is hard for p/p's to win more than publics in 2A when there aren't any of the normal private schools in 2A or perhaps none at all some years.

4 minutes ago, Tin Cup said:

I'm fine with an all p/p division, as long as they allow public schools the ability to voluntarily join that division if they so choose.  Some public schools will still be interested in being the best-of-the-best, not just best-of-the-rest.  

I guarantee there isn't a team in the first three classes that would give two $h*ts about your division captain insano 

33 minutes ago, Tippy said:

Move them all up a class?  Should Hammond Noll be moved up?  If the P/P's all went 0-10 every year in football, I'm sure you would think the system was just fine.

But they aren't, they are winning the state championship in 1A, 2A, and 3A for the last 3 years...

6 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

What are the outlooks for your teams? 

How many starters are graduating?

Any bright young players that can make an instant impact?

Does Ben Davis have the horses to run it back?

Can Snider make an instant impact next year?

Give me Center Grove, none of the other questions matter

2 minutes ago, vicvinegar said:

South Putnam and Providence too? 

Was 1A south better than 2A south? I think the North would be interesting. Not sure anyone outside of AC could make it out of their sectional tho.

5 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said:

Where’s that boy from North Poseys?

Trying to figure out how to delete his GID account after all that dumb crap he tried talking. What a needleneck

(mama said to keep it PG)

I wanna hear what that littleviking guys has to say about the game so far, I swear to God I do!

2 minutes ago, littleviking75 said:

Lol. I wont argue English with you as you never went to high school. Maybe your mama says "You knew luers was going to state?" Is a question, but clearly it is a statement of surprise. 

Hope you upgraded from that lawnmower, it can be cold this time of year when you don't have a team to root for.

 

Don't need to upgrade, Vicki Vallencourt upgraded it for me. 

You got me on the team, maybe next year.

45 minutes ago, littleviking75 said:

He clearly said north posey OR luers. Whats the matter with you, boy? Are you too st-st-stupid?

And clearly, Colonel Sanders, I asked you if you knew Luers would be who you would face. Good luck at state! You and your needled*** are gonna need it!!!!

1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

@BDGiant93 will BD be donning the black or the Purple. I only ask because 6A, 5A, 4A, and 2A home teams could all be wearing black jersey on black pants if BD wears all black.

It's a sign, now we just have to see whether all those black on black teams all win or all lose but its gonna be one or the other for sure