HoopsCoach

50 minutes ago, 260AC said:

I Think AC is gonna be bumped up to 2a sooner than later, if not by success factor then by enrollment. There was a spreadsheet on here earlier this season with enrollment and they were the 3rd or 4th biggest 1a school?

The DOE released enrollment numbers for this fall (Sept ‘22) and AC would be in 2A by enrollment.  Just barely, but they would be.  It won’t matter because they will get back to the state finals next year and bump up by success factor.

I think the AG’s post about shaking up the sectionals was referencing Blackhawk being in a 1A sectional starting in 2023 since they are already an eligible member school.  I think Blackhawk would join sectional 44, then Madison-Grant could move to sectional 45.

1 hour ago, MacAttack53 said:

Why would the ACAC want to add Blackhawk? Sure, it’s a fit from Blackhawk’s perspective, but I don’t see the benefit for the other conference schools in sports besides football.

Completely agree. This has been rumored for a few months among ACAC member schools.  With the right coach, I think Blackhawk will be able to pull some athletes from Snider, Leo, Northrop, Carroll, etc. that feel like they can play a bigger role at a small school that plays 1A football.  Just look at their basketball program to see what will happen.  They used to be a doormat prior to class basketball when they had to compete with the larger Fort Wayne schools.  If they have a coach who can recruit some kids from the larger schools in addition to building their own feeder program, it will be just a few years before football is just like their basketball program.  
 

Don’t expect the ACAC schools to blindly take Blackhawk just to get to 8 members.  They will need to consider the advantages Blackhawk has as a private school in a city with nearly half a million people compared to their own schools that have to accept any and all students in their small town, rural communities of only a few thousand residents.  The geographic proximity would be attractive to Heritage and Woodlan, but I could see their reluctance to admit Blackhawk if they have lost any students to them.  I could also see the 5 schools in Adams, Jay, and Wells Counties saying no.  If they really want an 8th member, maybe they reach out to Bellmont to see if the Braves would consider a move to the ACAC.  Then Angola could move into the Northeast 8 and Blackhawk can, as Bobby Knight once said, play with themselves.

6 hours ago, Basementbias said:

I'd like to see a 3 year rotation at semi state. Year 1 NW vs NE & SW vs SE; Year 2 NW vs SE & NE vs SW; Year 3 NW vs SW & NE vs SE.

I think neutral site semi-states would need to happen before this could work.  In 2A under this plan, Andrean/Mater Dei could potentially be a semi-state game and either of those teams being able to host should be taken away as a possibility since it involves a 5 hour (one way) bus trip.

2 hours ago, Basementbias said:

Speaking of which, who had the bright idea of Linton vs Lapel & Triton Central vs Mater Dei this year? Why wasn't it Linton vs Mater Dei & Triton Central vs Lapel for travel purposes?

This was poorly done by the alignment committee for 2A, then rubber stamped by the IHSAA leadership.  To be fair, I think you would be able to make the same criticism with some of the semi-state matchups that would happen in your alternative plan.  People would wonder why Valpo plays Castle and Whiteland plays Snider.

6 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Holy Paid Tuition Batman! 

What's interesting is that some of these don't play football, but they are decent size for their class.  For example, Faith Christian, FW Blackhawk, and Christian Academy are all larger than both Indy Lutheran and Traders Point ... matter of fact, Blackhawk is almost twice as large as TPC. 

On the subject of Blackhawk, they started football this year as an 8 man program. There has been discussion of transitioning to 11 man already.  If they do, I think they will be able to pull some athletes from Snider, Leo, Northrop, Carroll, etc. that feel like they can play a bigger role at a small school that plays 1A football.  Just look at their basketball program to see what will happen.

43 minutes ago, MDAlum82 said:

Looking for a comprehensive list of all Private & Parochial schools in Indiana.  For accuracy purposes, I am looking for a vetted source - IHSAA, etc., not your cousin Bob's list...

Thanks in advance.

These are the IHSAA member schools that are private/parochial/choice.  This does not include charter schools.  They are listed in order by enrollment.  I included schools that do not play football.
 

Indianapolis Roncalli

Indianapolis Cathedral

Fort Wayne Bishop Dwenger

Brebeuf Jesuit

Culver Academies

South Bend Saint Joseph

Guerin Catholic

Mishawaka Marian

Indianapolis Bishop Chatard

Fort Wayne Concordia

Evansville Memorial

Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter

Heritage Christian

Evansville Mater Dei

Hammond Bishop Noll

Fort Wayne Bishop Luers

Illiana Christian

Indianapolis Scecina

Muncie Burris

Andrean

Park Tudor

Covenant Christian (Indianapolis)

University

Providence

Lafayette Central Catholic

Fort Wayne Canterbury

Fort Wayne Blackhawk Christian

Christian Academy of Indiana

Faith Christian

Marquette Catholic

Indianapolis Lutheran

Providence Cristo Rey

Oldenburg Academy

Evansville Christian

Lakewood Park Christian

Greenwood Christian

Elkhart Christian

Trinity Lutheran

Indianapolis International

Shawe Memorial

Liberty Christian

Traders Point Christian

Bethany Christian

Trinity School at Greenlawn

Lakeland Christian

Bethesda Christian

DeMotte Christian (Covenant)

Seton Catholic

MTI School of Knowledge

Bloomington Lighthouse Christian Academy

Washington Catholic

Vincennes Rivet

Central Christian Academy

Evansville Day

9 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Great mock up overall! I would potentially flip flop these matchups and venues. Plymouth would be a better option for 3 of the teams listed at Warsaw (sorry Adams Central), and I think Warsaw's stadium on both sides has more seating than Plymouth. Obviously all 4 of these games will/would be highly attended, but having your matchups grouped as they are, feel like the Ft Wayne/Region schools at Warsaw would make for a great atmosphere.

You’re right. I’m not sure why I didn’t flip them.

1 hour ago, AW0352 said:

HS football is just better on Friday nights but it was really cool to see Castle and Mater Dei at the same place playing back to back.    Would give fans something to cheer for in two games at one place.  

I tried to keep teams from the same area or conference together if it made sense based upon their opponents.  It worked out (hypothetically) for Castle/Mater Dei, Snider/Luers, and East Central/Lawrenceburg.

Here are my hypothetical neutral site semi-states for this year.  This time I am presenting two options.  The first is single games played on Friday night.  The second features two games played at each of six sites on Saturday afternoon/evening.  All games in both options would be at locations with turf fields.  Which format do you prefer?

 

Friday Night - Single Games

6A

Carroll/Hamilton Southeastern @ Marion

Cathedral/Center Grove @ Ben Davis

5A

Valparaiso/Snider @ Warsaw

Whiteland/Castle @ Bloomington South

4A

New Prairie/Kokomo @ Plymouth

Roncalli/East Central @ Columbus North

3A

West Lafayette/Chatard @ Lebanon

Monrovia/Lawrenceburg @ Columbus East

2A

Andrean/Luers @ Goshen

Linton/Mater Dei @ Jasper

1A

North Judson/Adams Central @ Maconaquah

North Decatur/Lutheran @ Greenfield Central

 

Saturday Afternoon/Evening - 2 Games

@Plymouth

Andrean/Luers

Valparaiso/Snider

 

@Warsaw 

North Judson/Adams Central

New Prairie/Kokomo

 

@Kokomo (or Marion)

West Lafayette/Chatard

Carroll/Hamilton Southeastern

 

@Franklin Central

North Decatur/Lutheran

Cathedral/Center Grove

 

@ Columbus North

Monrovia/Lawrenceburg

Roncalli/East Central

 

@ Jasper

Whiteland/Castle

Linton/Mater Dei

On 11/8/2022 at 1:58 PM, Basementbias said:

Should do Huntington North for Luers vs Bluffton as a neutral site.

I considered suggesting Huntington North. They have a brand new facility and I’m sure they would be eager to host a tournament game to showcase their investment.  However, I went with Norwell because it is less time and miles for BOTH Luers and Bluffton to go to Norwell compared to HN.

Luers to Huntington North - 33 minutes, 26 miles

Bluffton to Huntington North - 39 minutes, 25 miles

Luers to Norwell - 24 minutes, 17 miles

Bluffton to Norwell - 16 minutes, 9 miles

19 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Who’s paying the rent for all of these neutral sites?

Who pays it for state tournament events in every other sport?

 

29 minutes ago, jakone said:

Luers would have to travel twice as far as Bluffton if the game is at Norwell. Bellmont is about the same distance for both schools.

Bellmont does not have turf.  Travel twice as far?  It’s 25 minutes to go from Luers to Norwell.  It’s 18 minutes from Bluffton to Norwell.  I could see an argument if it was 2 hours for one school and only an hour for their opponent.  Not a difference of 7 minutes.

2 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

I'll lean on the Morgan Brothers for that "family and community" agreement...

Fair enough?  

All good.  You’re not wrong about those in Wells County that carry some deep hatred, even within the same family.

21 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

Nice selection of Neutral Sites...

BUT, There is NO WAY Norwell hosts that contest!  Wells County hatred runs generational deep!  Also, Bluffton has turf anyway.  It remains a "home game" for the Tigers. 

I’m from Wells County.  Norwell and Bluffton (and Southern Wells) aren’t as hateful towards each other as some may think.  Maybe some in their communities hold some animosity, but their school leaders seem to work together just fine. This is obviously hypothetical and will not happen any time soon.  Just posting this for fun/discussion.

Here are my hypothetical neutral site regionals for this year.  Single games played on Friday night, all at locations with turf fields.

6A

Lafayette Jeff/Carroll (FW) @ Marion

Hamilton Southeastern/Westfield @ Carmel

Brownsburg/Cathedral @ Ben Davis

Warren Central/Center Grove @ Southport

5A

Merrillville/Valparaiso @ Hobart

Mishawaka/Snider @ Warsaw

Plainfield/Whiteland @ Perry Meridian

Bloomington South/Castle @ Jasper

4A

New Prairie/Northridge @ SB St. Joe

Columbia City/Kokomo @ Mississinewa

Roncalli/New Palestine @ Franklin Central

East Central/Evansville Memorial @ Bloomington North

3A

West Lafayette/Knox @ Logansport

Yorktown/Chatard @ Pendleton Heights

Monrovia/Owen Valley @ Martinsville

Lawrenceburg/Southridge @ Charlestown

2A

Andrean/Central Catholic @ Crown Point

Luers/Bluffton @ Norwell

Linton/Lapel @ Greencastle

Triton Central/Mater Dei @ Mitchell

1A

North Judson/Park Tudor @ Harrison (WL)

Carroll (Flora)/Adams Central @ Oak Hill

Sheridan/North Decatur @ Mount Vernon (Fortville)

Lutheran/Providence @ Seymour

13 hours ago, FlyingHigh said:

Serious question - What would need to happen to remove Southern Wells from the conference? 

The same thing it would take to remove AC from the conference.

4 hours ago, Basementbias said:

That would be pretty dumb when you only have 7 schools in the conference with them. Honestly the best scenario would be for Southern Wells and Jay County to change up their districts a bit. Send more Pennville & Northwestern Jay County kids to Southern Wells. Jay County would benefit with lower enrollment as they'd compete in 3A more than 4A. Southern Wells would have more students and hopefully find some more athletes. Southern Wells ended my career on their way to semi state and we had tough battles the other 3 years that we (AC) held on. To me, that's like asking Woodlan to drop out right now or Heritage about 3 or so years ago. AC will have some drop off after this Freshmen class. The MS & youth need some work bc they lost a year or so to Covid.

No need to change the districts with open enrollment.  SW already gets a few students from Pennville and the NW corner of Jay County.  They also get some from Warren.  They get a bunch from Montpelier, especially now that Montpelier Elementary has closed.  Many families in Montpelier have chosen to send to SW instead of staying in district and going to Blackford.  The enrollment at SW from within their district has declined as you would expect with some families moving to cities to be closer to jobs.  The only way the school has maintained their enrollment is by accepting from outside the district.  Montpelier, Warren, and Pennville are not towns with a substantial number of strong athletes, so SW athletic programs aren’t really benefiting.  They are just helping with funding enough to keep the school going.

4 hours ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

A large part of the problem lies in the size of some of the schools. Being a 2A school trying to reload to beat a school like WL year in and out is difficult. Even Rensselaer isn't the biggest 3A and have been 2A until recent. If youre gonna get a team that can challenge every single year, it has to come from either HH or Western in my opinion. The other teams in the conference will have that good class every 4 to 5 years that can challenge, but if you want someone every year I think those are the two teams that can make it happen. Most will say well WL is only 3A so there isn't much of a difference, but WL isn't your average 3A school by any means.

True that WL is not your average 3A school.  They have the advantage of being a relatively small district located in an urban area that attracts an affluent population which values higher education.  They are more like a private school than a small town/community school, which is what the rest of the conference is other than Central Catholic.  They have similar demographics to what you see in their Catholic rivals across the river, and they are in a college town with easier access to more training and higher level competition in youth sports.  Every school in the Hoosier Conference other than West Side and Central Catholic has rural areas of their district and relatively small population centers.  West Side and Central Catholic are able to pull from a population center with over 100,000 people.  Most of the smaller rural communities that make up the rest of the conference don’t have that luxury.  Western pulls a lot from Kokomo and Hamilton Heights may get some families that don’t want to go to the 6A schools in Hamilton County.  West Side is probably more like Mishawaka Marian, Andrean, Chatard, and Brebeuf than Twin Lakes, Benton Central, Rensselaer, and Cass.

West Lafayette would fit in well as a member of the North Central Conference.

1 hour ago, Donnie Baker said:

Do you think Lebanon would leave the Sagamores?

Would RDP leave the Hoosiers?

I don’t think either school would leave their current conference.  West Lafayette would be slightly more likely to consider it than Lebanon in my opinion, but neither would go for it.  My suggestion is very unrealistic.

On 7/28/2022 at 9:41 AM, Boilernation said:

That would be an interesting scenario to me. Would Harrison, Jeff, McCutcheon, Logan, and Kokomo just stay at 5 and increase their OOC schedule in all sports or try to expand? I can't think of any reasonable option outside of trying to bring in West Lafayette. 

I’ve posted this on another forum, and I know it’s more unrealistic fantasy booking, but here it is anyway.  I’d like to see the NCC expand with several more schools and split into 2 divisions that function as their own separate conferences. Keep the NCC name and “Conference of Champions” moniker since that is really the only thing that keeps the conference alive. With the cost of transportation, a conference with the geographic footprint of the NCC is more of a burden than a benefit. So bring in some slightly smaller schools that can compete with the current NCC members that are located within or close to the current footprint of the NCC. Something like this:

NCC East
Marion
Mississinewa
Jay County
Delta
Muncie Central
Yorktown
Anderson
Richmond

NCC West
Kokomo
Western
Logansport
Lebanon
McCutcheon
Lafayette Jeff
West Lafayette
Harrison

On 7/24/2022 at 9:47 PM, Guest said:

The Muncie based HHC schools (Delta/Yorktown) will be leaving the conference due to travel and competitive issues, and joining with Centerville and Muncie Central to start a new conference.  The additional slots will fill in with 2a to 4a enrollment schools in the area.  New castle will not stay in The HHC if the Muncie schools leave, and Shelby is looking to get out as they cannot compete with the Indy based HHC schools.  I expect to see some type of MSC/HHC merger in the future.  

Muncie Central, Delta, and Yorktown - possibly. Centerville - very unlikely.

7 hours ago, Hoosierdaddy said:

Rumor has it that Delta, Yorktown and New Castle will be leaving the HHC within the next year or so and will be joining  Muncie Central, Centerville, Richmond, Jay Co. and Oak Hill. Marion and Ole Miss might also get a call.

I think Oak Hill is even less likely to join that group than Centerville.  They are a very good fit in the CIC and they would be foolish to choose to leave for a conference that would double their travel.

It would be interesting to see several of those schools form a new conference of large 3A, 4A, and small 5A members centered around Muncie.  Throw out NCC history (the biggest obstacle to this) and go with Delta, Jay County, Muncie Central, Yorktown, Mississinewa, Marion, Anderson, and Richmond.  New Castle would be a great fit instead of Anderson, but I think there are still some hard feelings over New Castle leaving the NCC.  If Jay County doesn’t think they can compete, then give the Trojans an invite.  Anderson might be interested in taking their place in the Hoosier Heritage, and the HHC might consider the Indians if they lose Delta, Yorktown, and New Castle.  As much as I like fantasy booking, none of this will actually happen.

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

What's been the downfall of McCutcheon?

Jeff and Harrison are continuing on an upward trajectory and West Lafayette is one of the best public school programs in the state. 

There was a stretch of about 10-15 years around the late 90’s up to 2010 or so when the south side of Lafayette experienced a housing boom and became the trendy part of Tippecanoe County to move to.  They were pulling athletes from Jeff, and Harrison wasn’t seeing the growth in their district yet.  That trend on the south side stopped with the housing market taking a dump about 12-15 years ago.  The families that moved in during their growth period had kids that made up the really strong classes they had up to around 2019.  As the housing market recovered, most of the new construction in Tippecanoe County in the past 10 years has been in the Harrison district (note their enrollment growth to over 2000).  Many of the young families that have moved to those homes in Harrison’s district now have children that are getting to high school, and their talent pool has improved to the point that they have the best athletic program in the NCC.  Jeff has turned things around a bit with keeping their athletes from leaving (as well as poaching a few from the TSC district).  McCutcheon doesn’t have a lot of talent in the pipeline compared to Jeff and Harrison, but they will still be very competitive in certain sports (see Volleyball and their connections to club volleyball programs).  West Side will always have an abundance of talent with a small but affluent district that resembles the demographics of Central Catholic.

18 minutes ago, BTF said:

Thanks for clarifying. I thought something was off about my claim. The source I was using only considered 10-12 for Ben Davis for whatever reason. So those three schools, are in fact, the largest football schools in the state. 

Yes, the DOE lists the BD 9th grade center as a separate school in their data and on their INview site (which sucks), so they only list the BD enrollment for grades 10-12.

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Unless I'm mistaking, Warren Central is still ranked second in enrollment behind Carmel. It's Ben Davis that slipped down. 

You are mistaking.  Carmel and BD have been #1 and #2 for around 15 years.  Both have had over 4000 students since 2007. Warren Central has been close to 4000, but never over.

Carmel 5327

Ben Davis 4557

Warren Central 3868

19 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

Not being from the "Indy Area".  But this seems extremely plausible. 

I am also assuming that you are taking into account the TOTALITY of the other athletic/academic programs when you made this suggestion?

 

Yes.  I know this is a football forum, but my view of conference changes is based upon the entirety of the school programs.  Football and boys basketball tend to be the “bread winners” of the athletic family and often drive the discussion of conference moves, but conference changes need to be made with all programs in mind unless it is a sport specific conference.  It’s not always easy for AD’s and administrators to get coaches to understand that.  Their views are naturally going to be focused on the impact of any moves on their program, and sometimes AD’s and admin allow them to have too much of a voice.  If they are a good coach, AD’s often listen because they don’t want to risk losing them.

1 hour ago, Trojanmp52 said:

I  think it is funny how people are trying to put Center Grove with schools like Whiteland and Dc and Fc just to name a few.  This schools want nothing to do with CG in football and in fact most sports in general..   Whiteland all ready drop CG a few years back and DC could have extended the series but did not want to.

I get that, which is why I said “None of these will work out this way.”  There are lots of things that would stand in the way of some of these conferences changing and looking like what I listed.  There are more realistic changes I could see happening, and changes I would prefer to see instead of what I posted.  Here are a couple examples:

Metropolitan Interscholastic Conference

Avon

Ben Davis

Franklin Central

Lawrence Central

Lawrence North

North Central

Pike

Warren Central

 

Hoosier Crossroads Conference

Brownsburg

Carmel

Center Grove

Fishers

Hamilton Southeastern

Noblesville

Westfield

Zionsville

Fantasy booking some Central Indiana conferences a few years down the road.  None of these will work out this way.  Just some ideas.  For football, Center Grove could still play Warren Central week 1, Carmel week 2, and Cathedral week 9 if they are in a 7 team conference as listed below.

Metropolitan Interscholastic Conference

Ben Davis

Indianapolis Arsenal Tech

Lawrence Central

Lawrence North

North Central

Pike

Warren Central

 

Hoosier Crossroads Conference

Avon

Brownsburg

Fishers

Hamilton Southeastern

Noblesville

Westfield

Zionsville

 

Conference Indiana

Center Grove

Franklin Central

Columbus North

Southport

Decatur Central

Plainfield

Whiteland

 

Mid-Indiana Conference

Mooresville

Martinsville

Terre Haute North

Terre Haute South

Bloomington South

Bloomington North

Franklin Community

Perry Meridian

 

Hoosier Heritage Conference

Shelbyville

Greenwood

Mount Vernon

Pendleton Heights

Greenfield-Central

New Palestine

New Castle

Beech Grove

 

Indiana Crossroads Conference

Speedway

Monrovia

Ritter

Lutheran

Triton Central

Indian Creek

Covenant Christian

Scecina

 

North Central Conference - West

Lafayette Jeff

McCutcheon

Harrison (WL)

West Lafayette

Logansport

Kokomo

Western

Lebanon

 

North Central Conference - East

Marion

Mississinewa

Delta

Yorktown

Jay County

Muncie Central

Anderson

Richmond

 

Independent

Carmel

Indianapolis Cathedral

33 minutes ago, BTF said:

Fort Wayne could be trending that way as well. Carroll took a share of the SAC title in 2021. Homestead took the title outright in 2019 and 2020. Three years may not be enough to draw any conclusions, but as the student populations of those two schools continue to grow, the likelihood of them staying at the top is pretty strong. These suburban schools with large student bodies and a wealth of resources are becoming too much to overcome for the city schools. We'll see what 2022 brings. Right now it's a crapshoot between Snider, Dwenger, Homestead, and Carroll. 

Don’t forget that Luers, the smallest SAC school (*private school), just shared the conference championship with Carroll last season.