HoopsCoach

1 hour ago, HHF said:

Indianapolis Tech - Dr White's dream finally fulfilled.  Tech comes into the conference and helps The MIC continue to establish itself as the strongest hoops conference in the state, by a long shot.  The MIC identity will transform from a football driven to a basketball driven conference over the next decade.  Tech football will get a boost as several established head coaches with state championship pedigrees will be attracted to compete in this newly expanded conference.

Tech is a joke.  They are an average football team in a weak NCC.  Boys Basketball is going to get busted for undue influence. They can barely field varsity teams in most sports, and their enrollment continues to plummet (2608 in 2018 to 2089 in 2020).  Every few years IPS “reorganizes” and tries to push enrollment at Tech back up, but it never lasts.  NCC administrators have discussed removing them from the conference on more than one occasion in the last few years. Maybe that opens the door for them to go to the MIC, but they will not be competitive in anything but boys basketball.  Once the AAU coach gets canned or moves on they will have a tough time competing in basketball also.

I could see Southport joining the MIC.  I don’t think Franklin Central would go back but they might if Carmel and Center Grove join the HCC.  Avon switching to the MIC might make some sense if the Orioles think they can find more wins by making the jump.

Maybe the MIC considers Cathedral and goes with a 7 team league. Cathedral could be open to that with a 6 game conference schedule for football, which leaves open 3 games for Chatard, Roncalli, and a Cincinnati Catholic school (or Center Grove).

I would be interested in a 12 team HCC.  I mentioned this in a related topic recently:

HCC North: Carmel, Fishers, HSE, Noblesville, Westfield, Zionsville

HCC South: Avon, Brownsburg, Center Grove, Columbus North, Franklin Central, Southport

5 games against division opponents, and a crossover game in week 9 for 6 conference games total. No need to play more since these teams will likely play in the postseason anyway.  That leaves 3 non-conference games just like you would have in a 7 team MIC with Cathedral.

11 hours ago, WCHS Tiger Fan said:

warsaw is 2159

Is that from this year (21-22) or last year?  The numbers I shared were from the 20-21 school year.

58 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Of interest is that three of those four schools have gotten smaller compared to their 2019-2020; with GS being the exception and increasing a couple of dozen.  I'm surprised that WL numbers are down; especially given the growth on that side of the Wabash.

The WL district is basically landlocked, and without taking students from out of the district, their enrollment growth will be pretty gradual.  It was about 650 in the early 2000s and has grown to roughly 750 in 20 years.  Over that same period of time, Harrison has gone from 1500 to 2100.  The demographics of WL resemble those of Central Catholic and I think they are happy with that.

10 hours ago, Lysander said:

Noticed that and wondered if that should be enough to put them in 4A.  I also heard commentary at various places over the last few weeks as to whether Gibson Southern and Tri-West might be headed toward 4A enrollments - if not this upcoming period then in the near future.

Does anyone know whether this might be the case?

9 hours ago, foxbat said:

Will be interesting

Along with Danville and Tri-West, I'd toss West Lafayette into that mix.  WL has been at the top of that 3A pile for a long time ... just teetering on tipping to 4A.  At one time, I believe that WL used to be a closed-district, but talk on the street is that they may be lifting that closed-district restriction.  If that's the case, they were only a couple dozen off from 4A back in the 2019-2020 classification, and with the growth in the county just to the north, a couple of dozen can't be too far away.

West Lafayette - 743

Danville - 739

Gibson Southern - 728

Tri-West - 578

In recent years the 3A/4A cutoff has fallen right around 800.  If reclassification would have happened for this year, Brebeuf would have been 4A with an enrollment of 816.

1 hour ago, Old Man High Pants said:

Believe Franklin County's big issue area is below the high school level. Enrollment has been declining for years there, they consolidated their middle schools four or five years ago. The layoffs happened at the elementary level. While they still are a few hundred away from 2A it's not impossible for it to happen soon.

https://wrbiradio.com/2021/05/17/five-teacher-contracts-canceled-by-franklin-county-school-board/?epik=1638301537990

Could be wrong. That's just what I'm hearing.

South Dearborn could possibly be leveling out. The Dearborn County Country Club shut down from COVID and there has been talk of them building a subdivision on the land. Though I don't think South Dearborn would want to get back to 4A, they'll have a good chance of winning their first ever sectional by being in 3A.

You’re right about Franklin County and their enrollment trend.  They have lost roughly 200 students at the high school level over the last 10 years.  They went from around 950 students in 2010 to 750 in 2020.  It has fallen around 20-40 students per year during that time so they could be headed towards 2A three or four alignment cycles from now.  Certainly could be sooner if their enrollment drop is greater at the younger levels right now.

SD would probably be in a 3A sectional with county rival Lawrenceburg.

3 hours ago, Old Man High Pants said:

South Dearborn will for sure be dropping down to 3A, leaves only two 4A schools in the conference (East Central & Connersville), with some expected shake ups on who is "Big School" and "Little School".

Biggest question with the EIAC is how far Franklin County will drop. If not in 2022-23 they may very well be 2A by 2024-25.

Franklin County (732) had more students than South Dearborn (723) in 2020-21.  Both would have been in the top 20 largest 3A schools and still about 200 more than the largest 2A.

7 hours ago, superjay said:

They will not reclassify this year.  They will wait another year to get success factor and enrollment recounts aligned.  I really don’t see any other way.  

This is probably true.

From the 2020 fall count day, here were the bottom 10 of 6A (with 32 schools) and the top 10 of 5A.  The numbers are close enough, especially among the schools that had 2000-2100, that there could be some shuffling if realignment actually happens.

On 11/14/2021 at 7:01 PM, tango said:

IHSAA isn't going to want to pay travel for all teams to go to a neutral site. 

The IHSAA already pays mileage for all of the schools that travel to play regional and semi-state games.  They pay $6 per mile, round trip.  It wouldn’t be much of a difference (or cost much more) to pay both schools mileage to go to a neutral site instead of paying one school mileage to drive all the way to their opponent’s school.  Using Mount Vernon/Memorial as an example - they should pay Mount Vernon $2304 (384 miles) to go all the way to Memorial.  If they played at Bloomington South for a neutral site game, the IHSAA would pay Mount Vernon $936 (156 miles) and Memorial $1416 (236 miles).  That would be an additional $48 in mileage paid by the IHSAA.  At $10 per ticket, I think they could sell 5 more tickets to offset that cost.

If the IHSAA was really concerned about mileage reimbursement, they would make their alignment committees do a better job aligning the sectionals and which sectionals feed into certain regionals.  In boys basketball, it’s possible for a school like South Adams or Adams Central to go to North Judson for regional, meanwhile North Newton, Rensselaer, or Winamac would have to go to all the way to Lapel.

3 hours ago, CoachHag said:

Any idea of the locations beginning in 77?

They played at the township schools in Marion County (North Central, Warren Central, Lawrence Central, Lawrence North) until the Hoosier Dome opened.  It hosted starting in ‘84.

2 hours ago, whiteshoes said:

the IHSAA announced that they are rescheduling next weeks semi-state games for Saturday at the following locations:

Lafayette –

Merrillville vs Westfield

Michigan City vs Zionsville

 

Indianapolis –

Center Grove vs Ben Davis

Indianapolis Lutheran vs Tri High

 

Bloomington –

Cathedral vs New Albany

Mt Vernon (Fortville) vs Evansville Memorial

 

South Bend –

New Prairie vs Northridge

Andrean vs Eastside

 

Terre Haute –

Gibson Southern vs Tri-West

Indianapolis Scecina vs Evansville Mater Dei

 

Kokomo –

Indianapolis Brebuf vs Mishawaka Marian

North Judson vs Adams Central

 

Oh wait, this is Indiana.     Never mind.

Here is what I posted on the Moving Tournament Game Sites topic.  Similar to the sites that you posted.

One more time - hypothetical neutral sites for semi-state.  2 games at each site, played on Saturday, November 20th.  Games at 1 and 6 (not necessarily in the order listed below), which allows time between games to present trophy, clear locker rooms, fans can tailgate or go grab a meal somewhere, and warmups for game 2.  Nobody with a drive more than 2 hours.

@Elkhart

New Prairie/Northridge

Andrean/Eastside

@Warsaw

Brebeuf/Marian

North Judson/Adams Central

@Lafayette Jeff

Merrillville/Westfield

Michigan City/Zionsville

@Franklin Central

Center Grove/Ben Davis

Indy Lutheran/Tri

@Bloomington South

Mount Vernon/Evansville Memorial

Scecina/Mater Dei

@Bloomington North

Cathedral/New Albany

Tri-West/Gibson Southern

One more time - hypothetical neutral sites for semi-state.  2 games at each site, played on Saturday, November 20th.  Games at 1 and 6 (not necessarily in the order listed below), which allows time between games to present trophy, clear locker rooms, fans can tailgate or go grab a meal somewhere, and warmups for game 2.  Nobody with a drive more than 2 hours.

@Elkhart

New Prairie/Northridge

Andrean/Eastside

@Warsaw

Brebeuf/Marian

North Judson/Adams Central

@Lafayette Jeff

Merrillville/Westfield

Michigan City/Zionsville

@Franklin Central

Center Grove/Ben Davis

Indy Lutheran/Tri

@Bloomington South

Mount Vernon/Evansville Memorial

Scecina/Mater Dei

@Bloomington North

Cathedral/New Albany

Tri-West/Gibson Southern

1 hour ago, FlyingHigh said:

https://outsidethehuddle.net/2021/11/12/blitz-regional-championship-picks/

So much for Coach Grant Moser's "underdog" approach. Blitz from OTH has South Adams as 1-point favorites. 

It says “The Flying Jets are the better team, but South Adams has nothing to lose as the heavy underdog.” I don’t think he’s calling South Adams the favorite, he’s picking an upset.

17 hours ago, roaringthunderdlr said:

For Parke Heritage/Lutheran, I would say Plainfield over Cascade. Bigger stadium.

Good suggestion and one that makes sense.  I went with Cascade since it is a little more centrally located for Parke Heritage/Lutheran but it isn’t a significant difference.

1 hour ago, Basementbias said:

Having fun watching everyone guessing the neutral sites for the OHSAA playoffs this upcoming weekend. I believe the first 2 playoff games had been hosted by higher seeds until this point if possible. That has been a change as all or all but the first round were neutral sites until they expanded to 16 teams in the 4 regions for all 7 divisions (what we call classes). How would it look for the regionals in Indiana this year? Looking to expand this to semi states after this weekend. 

Here’s what I posted in the thread on moving tournament game sites yesterday.

Hypothetical neutral site games for regional:

Merrillville/Penn @ LaPorte

Carroll/Westfield @ Marion

Brownsburg/Ben Davis @ Avon

Lawrence North/Center Grove @ Franklin Central

Valpo/Michigan City @ Chesterton

Dwenger/Zionsville @ Anderson

Cathedral/New Palestine @ Warren Central

Bloomington South/New Albany @ Columbus North

Lowell/New Prairie @ Hobart

Northridge/Mississinewa @ Columbia City

Mount Vernon/Roncalli @ Greenfield Central

East Central/Evansville Memorial @ Martinsville

Hanover Central/Mishawaka Marian @ Portage

Norwell/Brebeuf @ Delta

Tri-West/Owen Valley @ Mooresville

Lawrenceburg/Gibson Southern @ Providence

Andrean/LaVille @ SB St. Joe

Eastside/Eastbrook @ Homestead

Central Catholic/Scecina @ Lebanon

Triton Central/Mater Dei @ Bloomington North

North Judson/Carroll @ Logansport

Adams Central/South Adams @ Bluffton

Parke Heritage/Lutheran @ Cascade

Tri/North Central @ Decatur Central

1 minute ago, Irishman said:

I think for it to really work though, have 2 or 3 games at the same site. Someone mentioned that some fans may stay home for a neutral site game, but I think the difference could be made up if there were options. I would be more inclined to see a couple games in a day at the same site rather than two teams I don’t normally follow playing close by. 

I agree, and that’s what I would do for semi-state.  2 games on Saturday at the same site.  I think there are enough regional games that feature schools who aren’t that far apart that it would create some “out of the way” travel to pair up 2 neutral site games.  Some of these regionals could definitely be paired up and played at the same site on Saturday.

Merrillville/Penn and Valpo/Michigan City

Carroll/Westfield and Dwenger/Zionsville

Some combination of Lawrence North/Center Grove, Cathedral/New Pal, and Roncalli/Mount Vernon

Hypothetical neutral site games for regional:

Merrillville/Penn @ LaPorte

Carroll/Westfield @ Marion

Brownsburg/Ben Davis @ Avon

Lawrence North/Center Grove @ Franklin Central

Valpo/Michigan City @ Chesterton

Dwenger/Zionsville @ Anderson

Cathedral/New Palestine @ Warren Central

Bloomington South/New Albany @ Columbus North

Lowell/New Prairie @ Hobart

Northridge/Mississinewa @ Columbia City

Mount Vernon/Roncalli @ Greenfield Central

East Central/Evansville Memorial @ Martinsville

Hanover Central/Mishawaka Marian @ Portage

Norwell/Brebeuf @ Delta

Tri-West/Owen Valley @ Mooresville

Lawrenceburg/Gibson Southern @ Providence

Andrean/LaVille @ SB St. Joe

Eastside/Eastbrook @ Homestead

Central Catholic/Scecina @ Lebanon

Triton Central/Mater Dei @ Bloomington North

North Judson/Carroll @ Logansport

Adams Central/South Adams @ Bluffton

Parke Heritage/Lutheran @ Cascade

Tri/North Central @ Decatur Central

8 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

That's great. The logistics of hosting a football game are significantly greater than any other sport, due to the number of people, medical staff that have to be on hand, et al. 

At most schools, administrators *must* be on hand to oversee it. Not only that, but you need an army of ticket takers, press box personnel, chain gang, security, et al. Basketball and other sports require a little bit smaller commitment because it's in an indoor facility or (in the case of soccer/baseball), have smaller crowds.

That's a lot to ask of a school, especially if they a) have no chance of ever having a team in that game, and b) there is a possibility your school might be playing elsewhere that same night. 

Schools sign up to host basketball, et al, because they are guaranteed a home-court advantage if they play. They won't be granted the same in a totally neutral football world. 

And from the IHSAA's perspective, going fully neutral means a likely smaller crowd because it's effectively a road game for both teams. 

I’ll say it again - it can be done. The IHSAA and it’s member schools choose not to.  Other states seem to manage those obstacles you identified.

I can buy the idea that schools want to host their sectional to have a home court/field advantage.  I don’t think that reason is as common for events after sectional.  Greenfield-Central, Martinsville, and Frankfort all host 1A or 2A regionals in boys basketball.  All 3 are in different classes and are only guaranteed to NOT have a home court advantage.  Their team could also be playing elsewhere the same day/night.  It’s been a while since a boys basketball team played in a semi-state they hosted.  Many schools enjoy hosting tournament events, very few of which choose to because of a belief that they will have a home court/field advantage.  Seymour, Huntington North, Lafayette Jeff, Washington, Southport, Logansport, Elkhart…not a criticism of their athletic teams, but not many are making deep tournament runs and playing at home.

I do think the IHSAA needs to create a greater incentive for schools to host regional and semi-state events.

If a fully neutral site hurts attendance from the IHSAA’s perspective, why do they play the state finals at Lucas Oil instead of letting schools play at home?  They played the championship games at home sites from 1973-1976.  Football is one of the few IHSAA tournaments that do not play regional and semi-state rounds at neutral sites.  I would like to see that change now that more adequate facilities are available.

21 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

lol... play the Indy 6A regional....... in Indy? What's so hard about that? Why would the 6A regional be in the South? makes zero sense. Heaven forbid ANYONE in Indy ever have to drive anywhere? Good grief. I have zero sympathy if your 30 min drive had to be 45 mins. Zero. 

Find the nicest stadium on the southside of Indy that's neutral site and play it there. We drive 2.5 hours for a regional game and have drive that far for a sectional, as well, multiple times. 

We have neutral sites in basketball, baseball, and volleyball.... I would like to see it attempted in football. I think they do that in college too right?

The solution I would recommend is to play the 6A regional game (if it’s Carmel/BD) at North Central or Pike.  Semi-state could then be held on Nov. 20th at Avon with 2 games.  The 5A game potentially between Cathedral and Bloomington North/South at 1 followed by the 6A game potentially between Center Grove and Carmel/BD at 5 or 6.  Time between games allows for the clearing of locker rooms and facility after the afternoon game and warm ups before the evening game.

13 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

Which 6A is natural grass?

 

I think the error was FW Carroll. Up until this year, they had natural grass. They built a new stadium that opened this year, which has turf.

2 hours ago, Trojanmp52 said:

And CG and BD are about 30 min so why should they both drive and hour or longer to a neutral site.  Now if the ihsaa wanted to a cause by cause call on this I would think that would could work

It can be done. Took me about an hour to identify neutral sites with turf for every (likely) regional game.  They could also select regional sites for each matchup prior to the start of the tournament, which would give host sites more time to plan ahead.  There are enough schools now with turf that it could be done.  Semi-state games at neutral sites are long overdue in my opinion. Do it like basketball and volleyball - 2 games on Saturday using 6 sites (3 north, 3 south).

16 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

East Central vs. Ev Memorial is 3hr 45mins one way. Play it in Seymour. 1.5hr for EC 2.5 for Evansville Mem.

 Idk. Just an idea. 

Charlestown has a new turf field that would be a decent location to host that game. 1 hr 45 for East Central, 2 hrs for Mater Dei.

I think Monroe Central used 4 timeouts in the 2nd half. Then the officials completely botched the game time and play clock after the 4th timeout was granted.

It would eliminate a success factor point for winning a sectional. Doesn’t matter for 6A, but it could for a 5A team playing up in 6A.  With the current format, a team like Snider (just for example, when they were playing up in 6A) could win 2 sectionals and no regionals, and stay in 6A.  Without sectionals, they could win 0 regionals and go back to 5A.

16 hours ago, BTF said:

Conservative values?

Segregation might have been a related trend Alabama took a significant role in leading.

57 minutes ago, Bobref said:

The Starfires are great, no doubt. But it’s hard to overlook Pioneer at this level. Their girls have won titles this year in basketball, volleyball, and softball. We know what the football team has done. They are becoming the “Carmel” of 1A. But then you get to their facility. 😂🤣

The nickname for Adams Central is the Jets.  The Starfires are South Adams.  SA played in the 1A state finals this year.  AC won it in 2000 and has historically been more consistent than SA.