Footballking16

3 hours ago, Temptation said:

Nope.  One for state and one for having a high percentage of their student body who plays football.  (See other thread.)

Imagine still not understanding what “pound for pound” means after having it explained 3 different times by 3 different people, only to continue to use it inaccurately.

Bravo. 

27 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Maybe its just because I have NEVER been a boxing enthusiast and have never understood the actual "pound for pound" argument.  I get your point about Avon/Carmel/Warren vs New Pal/Cathedral/Chatard.  It makes sense.  It is COMMON sense.  Sorry if my argument was indicating otherwise.

Just seems like we have a poster trying to create some "Champions of Life" participation trophy that doesn't actually exist.

LOL.

I'm not trying to create anything. I simply gave an opinion. Nowhere did I ever call Chatard to be a champion of anything mythical, simply gave an opinion that I though they were the best team in the state pund for pound. You clearly don't get the usage or terminology and you're attributing it to mean something that it doesn't.

Just now, Temptation said:

So when New Pal knocks Cathedral out in the regional round, we should expect the “pound for pound, we outhit them” post?

That literally has nothing to do with a single thing I’ve said in this thread???

Are you moving the goal posts now?

2 hours ago, Temptation said:

As an educator/coach in a public school system, I have NEVER heard a kid cite “too many numbers” as a reason for not playing football.

I’m not the one speaking in absolutes, you are. You said you’ve “NEVER” heard a kid cite too many numbers as a reason why they don’t play football. If that’s your stance then you have no other choice than to believe the 77 kids on Avon’s roster or the 120 kids on Ben Davis’ roster are the best available football players in the school. But you’ll never say that because you know it’s not true. There are plenty of kids at schools like Ben Davis or Warren or Carmel who are good enough to play varsity at just about any other school in the state that don’t and that’s because they’ll never see the field because there’s still 4 or 5 other guys better at their position. That’s the problem created when you have three and four thousand kids in a school.

I know for a fact that for years the best football players at North Central didn’t come out for the team. I know it was a big problem at LN as well for the longest time.

3 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Oh geez.  You win already.  You’re looking for some fictional trophy that doesn’t exist.  You keep moving the goalposts on this one.

Never thought I’d see the day where a CHATARD backer is taking some sort of moral victory stance.

I bet you’ll be a riot on here in November...win or lose.

I’m a Cathedral backer giving credit where credit is due. 

How did I move the goalposts? I stated an opinion that I believe kids are discouraged to come out for football or quit altogether before they see it through because of the sheer numbers at these 3,000+ school enrollments. I planted the goal posts here. You don’t have to agree with me, but stop suggesting I’m switching the narrative.

19 minutes ago, Temptation said:

So they leave and go to Cascade, Danville, Plainfield and Tri-West.

As an educator/coach in a public school system, I have NEVER heard a kid cite “too many numbers” as a reason for not playing football.

In my experience kids transfer or proudly ride the bench and get their locker decorated and wear their jersey to school every Friday...

So you're telling me that 77 players on Avon's roster are the best 77 football players in a school of 3,000? I say no chance. We can agree to disagree. 

25 minutes ago, Temptation said:

I'm going to have to disagree on part of this depending upon your definition of "participation."  

Teams that are successful annually at the 6A level (Avon, Warren, Carmel in your example) have an INCREASE in numbers/participation just to be a part of something that is successful.  Now, how many of those kids actually "PLAY" or participate is another thing.

I don't see many kids in this area that are walking away from football due to a lack of playing time.  

It's much more of a status symbol at most places to say you are "on the football team" whether you play or not.

I'm strictly speaking to numbers. Avon has ~3,000 kids in their school. Assuming it's a 50/50 split male v female, that's 1500 boys in the school. Compare that to Chatard and their 700 students (350 boys in a 50/50 split).

Both teams may have 80 players on their roster, but if you're choosing 80 kids from a pool of 350 kids while another team is choosing 80 kids from a pool of 1500, the latter is going to be bigger/faster/strong up and down the roster, especially towards the end of the roster. I don't think Avon's top 10 players are night and day better than the top 10 players from Chatard, but 11-22? And then 23-80? Absolutely. They have a ton more to choose from.

 It's simply a numbers game. Roughly 23% of Chatard's male enrollment makes up their varsity roster of 80 players. 23% of Avon's male enrollment is 345. It's not feasible to have 345 players on a football roster. There are kids at Avon, Brownsburg, at any 6A who are discouraged from playing due to sheer numbers. It's simply a numbers game.

25 minutes ago, Trojan88 said:

Im gonna have to take a picture of this thread, print it, and enjoy someone from Cathedral giving mad props to the Trojans! 🙂 

Pains me to do it but I think you guys have a great team and probably were the better team even in defeat a few weeks ago. Outside a blown coverage on 3rd and 22 that resulted in an 88 yard TD pass and then another long run late to seal the game (2 plays accounted for more than half of Cathedral's output for the game), you guys dominated the LOS despite being outweighed 40-50 lbs a man. Was the only time this year I've seen Cathedral struggle to move the ball and that's with playing X and Elder on the road where the Irish moved the ball at will. 

22 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

So this brings up an interesting question.  What's the bigger factor......... enrollment or roster size?  My opinion is roster size which to me equates to depth.

Maxpreps lists the following roster sizes for each school:

New Pal     66

Avon           79

Bburg         106

Cathedral   85

Carmel       123

Warren        112

Chatard        81

Homestead   114

W. Lafayette   57

East Noble    52

New Prairie    70

South Adams  44

Some of these with the high numbers could include all 4 grades.  I cannot confirm that.  But it appears that Chatard's roster is approx. equal to both Cathedral and Avon.  And possibly some of those that have all 4 grades listed.  I'm not explaining myself very well but don't you think that having 81 on your roster gives you enough depth that the"pound for pound"argument does not hold water?

I don't think roster size is always the best indication. It's no secret that there is more participation in a P/P setting, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of talent or depth. Avon may have 2 less kids than Chatard but Avon has 4x the enrollment. The bigger the school, the more the competition there is and subsequently less available playing time and that leads to fewer participation. I have no doubt that schools like Avon, Warren, Carmel, etc could field 2 very competitive varsity teams if they so wanted to. 

7 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

Even though they have lost to #1, #5, #6 and honorable mention on your list. (The last 3 being close games) Guess we shall see come tournament time with injured players returning if the Trojans figure out how to win.....

🙄

TD- You obviously know I respect your opinion and the CG football program, but it wasn’t long ago that Cathedral had guys like Markese Stepp, Emil Ekiyor, Ben Stewart, and Pete Werner all hurt simultaneously and throughout the course of the year when you claimed, “you are what your record says you”.

Now do I think CG is better then the 1-4 record next to their name? Sure. But at some point injuries are what they are.

6 minutes ago, dmizers3 said:

They most certainly would. As well as @Footballking16 assertion of Cathedral being the most explosive offense in the state.  Though it is a fun discussion and I'll admit my bias but I've seen both play and I'll take New Pal.  Should make for a fun regional though.

Trust me, just a biased opinion. But I’ve been more impressed with Cathedral’s balance and ability to move the ball against a much, much tougher schedule than New Pal. I just watched Cathedral score times 4 times from 50+ yards against one of the better teams in the nation in St. Xavier.

5 minutes ago, Temptation said:

So the best in their class?  Got it.

Yes I believe Chatard is the best team in 3A as well as the best pound for pound team in the state. They don’t mean the same thing.

4 minutes ago, Temptation said:

I’ll take the first 8-10 on this list...

Certainly within your opinion but again that doesn’t quantify “pound for pound”, I don’t think you get what that means. 80% of those schools have 3-4x the enrollment of Chatard and I too would expect them to beat Chatard more times than not. But relative to Chatard’s enrollment, I think they are “pound for pound” the best team in the state.

1 minute ago, Temptation said:

I don’t have an 11, but quite a few teams do...that are better than Chatard.

I was thinking adding up all of the kids weights on the roster and dividing it by total number of points scored?

I don’t think there’s “quite a few teams” whose best 11 are better than Chatard’s best 11. I do think there are a handful of teams who have better 12-30’s and that’s where football games are won and lost (see my comments about depth above).

4 minutes ago, Temptation said:

I don’t have an 11, but quite a few teams do...that are better than Chatard.

I was thinking adding up all of the kids weights on the roster and dividing it by total number of points scored?

Ah, so the best in their class?  Got it.  I’m on board.

That’s not what that means but ok.

5 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Can you define “pound for pound?”

Is there some sort of formula?

No there’s no formula.

It’s an old boxing expression. Someone like Floyd Mayweather is widely considered to be one the best “pound for pound” fighters of all-time. But as 155 lb boxer he would get whooped by any below average heavyweight and rightfully so. 

And I’ll say this, I think Chatard is pound for pound the best team in the state. They may not have the speed/depth to compete in 6A, but they are a very good football team. After watching Cathedral do whatever they wanted offensively against X and Elder, Chatard easily was the best defense I’ve seen this year and I consider Cathedral to have the most explosive offense in the state.

Not sure I can complain with this list although as a tad biased, I would flop Cathedral and Brownsburg if anything given each teams performance against St. X.

2 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Cathedral really seems to have great game plans against these teams from other states, but can't get the bounces needed to win. Is it a depth issue? Coaching adjustments? 

Tough to question coaching/playcalling when you rack up nearly 600 yards of total offense but man there was some puzzling decisions last night. Cathedral had the ball inside the X 5 yard line near the end of the first half up 7 and threw a terrible INT or otherwise could have really blown the game open.

Cathedral came out quick in the 2H and pushed the lead up to 14 but X responded very quickly and tied the game. From there, it felt like Cathedral panicked and tried to hit the home run ball on every play instead of what was working earlier.

Have to credit X though in a game like this. They got punched in the mouth early and never flinched. That’s a sign of a well-coached, good football team. 

Cathedral put up a fight but ultimately fell short 41-37. Cathedral jumped out to a 14-3 lead and lead 31-17 early in the third. X then scored 24 unanswered. Cathedral put up nearly 600 yards of total offense but it wasn’t enough.

4 hours ago, cg_holmeaid said:

Agreed, don’t want to rush him into something that his body isn’t ready for yet. 

Is he a Junior or Senior? Either way, he's been thee forever it feels like

32 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Their 51 wins are padded by the fact that they have little in-state competition on a regular basis in northern Indiana.  It's really not their fault.

2-2 versus Carmel is impressive, but what happened the following week?  (Outscored 91-30).

People hate the truth, but Penn is no longer the power it once was in the 90s and would be a middle of the road/.500 team annually if they were in central Indiana.

I never said anything about 51 wins.

I was responding to the comment that stated the NIC does nothing to prepare Penn for a postseason run (they've been to two state titles in 5 years and it has affected them beating Carmel twice in that span) and they are getting thumped regularly in non-conference games. They have a winning non-conference record going back years with the exception of this year. It's why I said it's entirely ridiculous to use such a small sample size to start talking about the demise of the Penn Football program. 

32 minutes ago, Temptation said:

2-2 versus Carmel is impressive, but what happened the following week?  (Outscored 91-30).

Ben Davis did that to everybody in 2017. They beat Center grove 40-7. Beat Warren 45-16. Beat Fishers 50-7. Beat Avon 57-20. Penn could have played an NFL regular season schedule and still not have been prepared for Ben Davis, that's how good they were that year. 

31 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

What does Geography have to do with Penn going 2-2 vs Carmel the last 5 years? I responded to a post that says Penn is routinely losing it's non-conference games (they aren't) and that their conference slate doesn't prepare them for a deep tournament run (they've been to state twice the last 5 years and have beaten Carmel twice).

Penn is 3-1 against perennial contender Orchard Lake St. Mary's (MI) and 3-1 against perennial contender Birmingham Brother Rice (MI) all in the last 5 years. Penn has dominated Valpo the better part of this decade, they aren't "routinely losing their non-conference games". They aren't off to a good start this year, but it's an extremely small sample size to proclaim this is the beginning of the end for Penn, especially when their D1 caliber QB is sidelined with an injury. 

Excuse me..."getting thumped regularly in non-conference games" was actually the direct quote. 

12 hours ago, Temptation said:

Geography is Penn’s best friend...

What does Geography have to do with Penn going 2-2 vs Carmel the last 5 years? I responded to a post that says Penn is routinely losing it's non-conference games (they aren't) and that their conference slate doesn't prepare them for a deep tournament run (they've been to state twice the last 5 years and have beaten Carmel twice).

Penn is 3-1 against perennial contender Orchard Lake St. Mary's (MI) and 3-1 against perennial contender Birmingham Brother Rice (MI) all in the last 5 years. Penn has dominated Valpo the better part of this decade, they aren't "routinely losing their non-conference games". They aren't off to a good start this year, but it's an extremely small sample size to proclaim this is the beginning of the end for Penn, especially when their D1 caliber QB is sidelined with an injury. 

20 hours ago, DT said:

Penn's scheduling strategy is clearly not working for them.  The NIC regular season does nothing to prepare them for the playoffs, and now they are getting thumped regularly in non con play.   

Huh? Haven't they played for the state championship twice in the last 5 years? Aren't they 2-2 against Carmel in that stretch? Think you're extrapolating a very small sample size.

1 minute ago, Lysander said:

Bishop Chatard       53

Roncalli                      7

Going to be a battle next week