Southwestern Indiana Top 10 - Week 1

[SimpleWins]

9 hours ago, Titan32 said:

HH getting a lot of mileage out of running trick plays against little old South Spencer....shame shame.  @tango has it pretty close I'd imagine.  GS had 507 yards of offense Friday.

In 2002, when Kevin Tempel was playing, HH was up by like 30+ against SS in the 4th. Clayton was going to run the clock out to head home. However, SS kept calling time out and stopping the clock at the end of the game. So, Clayton ran the hook & ladder to score on them to ensure SS would get the ball back…because Bob’s just a nice guy like that! 😃 

The Hook & Ladder against SS Friday night was Tempel’s tribute to Bob Clayton…luckily it worked!

[SimpleWins]

10 hours ago, tango said:

IMO, if GS had beat Floyd, they would be #1. Losing by 1 score to a 5A school in Wk1 after replacing what they had to replace is pretty solid to me. I might have Castle at #2 if they hadn't been gifted the W by North.

I personally don't put much stock at all into last year. 

Floyd has won like 4 sectionals and I believe has never won a regional. They are average at best YOY and probably overrated this year. Class doesn’t mean anything…they couldn’t win 3A or 4A sectionals over here.

[Titan32]

10 minutes ago, SimpleWins said:

Floyd has won like 4 sectionals and I believe has never won a regional. They are average at best YOY and probably overrated this year. Class doesn’t mean anything…they couldn’t win 3A or 4A sectionals over here.

Football is kind of like the stock market....it's silly to talk about past success. You should know that in your position.  I can tell you who is probably over rated.

[hhpatriot04]

21 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Football is kind of like the stock market....it's silly to talk about past success. You should know that in your position.  I can tell you who is probably over rated.

Post your poll already. What are you worried about? No one reads TGD anymore. 

[LC_Bears_04]

2 hours ago, LC_Bears_04 said:

North should be higher on this list.  They only lost to Castle by 3 points and drove down to the 1 yard line with 15 seconds left before they fumbled and Castle recovered.

I'll give this top 10 list a shot:

1.  Memorial

2.  Castle

3.  North

4.  Reitz

5.  Heritage Hills

6.  Gibson Southern

7.  Mater Dei

8.  Jasper

9.  North Posey

10.  Boonville

[Titan32]

I've been around here long enough to know how the first few weeks of these rankings work for those looking to influence public naratives and future polls. We have very little actual evidence, so one result can move a team several spots.

But that's also why who you played has to matter.

Memorial deserves credit for beating Jasper 48-14. That's a legitimate opening-night result. Heritage Hills did exactly what it should have done against South Spencer, winning 49-13. Gibson Southern lost 31-24.

If we're just sorting teams by 1-0 and 0-1, that's easy. But I don't think that's how we should evaluate good football teams.

GS opened against a ranked Class 5A Floyd Central team. And despite losing, Gibson Southern outgained Floyd 507-365, had 29 first downs to 17, rushed for 261 yards, threw for 254 and led 24-17 entering the fourth quarter. Caden Rochleau ran for 200 yards and threw for 254.

What killed GS? Three turnovers and a 90-yard kickoff return for a touchdown.

Floyd Central has now moved up to No. 6 in Class 5A. That's considerably different context than simply saying "Gibson Southern is 0-1."

And before we're too quick to rearrange the Southwestern Indiana pecking order after one Friday in August, there's a pretty substantial body of evidence from the Nick Hart era.

Hart and Todd Wilkerson both became head coaches in 2012. Hart's Gibson Southern teams own the winning head-to-head record against Heritage Hills during that era. GS also owns a winning record against Evansville Memorial in its meetings since Hart took over.

And most importantly, we don't have to go back very far at all: Gibson Southern beat both Heritage Hills and Memorial last season. Heritage Hills entered that sectional meeting ranked No. 1 in Class 4A, and GS beat them anyway. Then came the win over Memorial, 28-21, then a win over Mater Dei, a regional championship and a trip to the south semi-state.

So Memorial deserves its flowers. Heritage Hills deserves some dandelions. They're outstanding programs. But I'm not ready to decide Gibson Southern suddenly belongs behind everybody because GS chose to open its season against a ranked 5A opponent and lost by seven.

Especially when you look at what comes next.

Saturday Gibson Southern doesn't get an easy rebound game. They get St. Pius X from Missouri, the defending Class 2 state runner-up. And this isn't a state-finalist roster that graduated everybody. St. Pius returns its starting quarterback, school-record-setting running back, most of its offensive line and five All-State players. The Lancers believe they're capable of going right back to the Show-Me Bowl.

So Gibson Southern's first two games are Week 1 against ranked Class 5A Floyd Central, and Week 2 against defending Missouri Class 2 state runner-up St. Pius X. That's intentional scheduling. If we're going to encourage programs to challenge themselves outside conference play, strength of schedule has to mean something when we evaluate them.  Those who have the balls shoudl be rewarded in my view.

If Gibson Southern gets completely handled Saturday, then we'll have some new information and can adjust accordingly. But if GS beats St. Pius, or we get another high-level, competitive game against an excellent opponent, I'm not sure an 0-1 or even potentially 0-2 record tells us nearly as much as who they played and how they played them.

It's August. Let's collect some evidence before we rewrite the hierarchy and a over a decade of current coaching history.

 

 

 

 

[hhpatriot04]

3 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

I've been around here long enough to know how the first few weeks of these rankings work for those looking to influence public naratives and future polls. We have very little actual evidence, so one result can move a team several spots.

But that's also why who you played has to matter.

Memorial deserves credit for beating Jasper 48-14. That's a legitimate opening-night result. Heritage Hills did exactly what it should have done against South Spencer, winning 49-13. Gibson Southern lost 31-24.

If we're just sorting teams by 1-0 and 0-1, that's easy. But I don't think that's how we should evaluate good football teams.

GS opened against a ranked Class 5A Floyd Central team. And despite losing, Gibson Southern outgained Floyd 507-365, had 29 first downs to 17, rushed for 261 yards, threw for 254 and led 24-17 entering the fourth quarter. Caden Rochleau ran for 200 yards and threw for 254.

What killed GS? Three turnovers and a 90-yard kickoff return for a touchdown.

Floyd Central has now moved up to No. 6 in Class 5A. That's considerably different context than simply saying "Gibson Southern is 0-1."

And before we're too quick to rearrange the Southwestern Indiana pecking order after one Friday in August, there's a pretty substantial body of evidence from the Nick Hart era.

Hart and Todd Wilkerson both became head coaches in 2012. Hart's Gibson Southern teams own the winning head-to-head record against Heritage Hills during that era. GS also owns a winning record against Evansville Memorial in its meetings since Hart took over.

And most importantly, we don't have to go back very far at all: Gibson Southern beat both Heritage Hills and Memorial last season. Heritage Hills entered that sectional meeting ranked No. 1 in Class 4A, and GS beat them anyway. Then came the win over Memorial, 28-21, then a win over Mater Dei, a regional championship and a trip to the south semi-state.

So Memorial deserves its flowers. Heritage Hills deserves some dandelions. They're outstanding programs. But I'm not ready to decide Gibson Southern suddenly belongs behind everybody because GS chose to open its season against a ranked 5A opponent and lost by seven.

Especially when you look at what comes next.

Saturday Gibson Southern doesn't get an easy rebound game. They get St. Pius X from Missouri, the defending Class 2 state runner-up. And this isn't a state-finalist roster that graduated everybody. St. Pius returns its starting quarterback, school-record-setting running back, most of its offensive line and five All-State players. The Lancers believe they're capable of going right back to the Show-Me Bowl.

So Gibson Southern's first two games are Week 1 against ranked Class 5A Floyd Central, and Week 2 against defending Missouri Class 2 state runner-up St. Pius X. That's intentional scheduling. If we're going to encourage programs to challenge themselves outside conference play, strength of schedule has to mean something when we evaluate them.  Those who have the balls shoudl be rewarded in my view.

If Gibson Southern gets completely handled Saturday, then we'll have some new information and can adjust accordingly. But if GS beats St. Pius, or we get another high-level, competitive game against an excellent opponent, I'm not sure an 0-1 or even potentially 0-2 record tells us nearly as much as who they played and how they played them.

It's August. Let's collect some evidence before we rewrite the hierarchy and a over a decade of current coaching history.

 

 

 

 

There's no agenda behind the polls other than to reflect popular opinion and generate a little discussion. I hope GIbson wins every game except against HH and most HH fans probably feel that way. I assume the same is true vice versa.

It's going to be hard to knock off Memorial if they run the table and HH or GS have one in the L column. This is all subjective, which makes it fun. I guess.

[LC_Bears_04]

2 hours ago, Titan32 said:

I've been around here long enough to know how the first few weeks of these rankings work for those looking to influence public naratives and future polls. We have very little actual evidence, so one result can move a team several spots.

But that's also why who you played has to matter.

Memorial deserves credit for beating Jasper 48-14. That's a legitimate opening-night result. Heritage Hills did exactly what it should have done against South Spencer, winning 49-13. Gibson Southern lost 31-24.

If we're just sorting teams by 1-0 and 0-1, that's easy. But I don't think that's how we should evaluate good football teams.

GS opened against a ranked Class 5A Floyd Central team. And despite losing, Gibson Southern outgained Floyd 507-365, had 29 first downs to 17, rushed for 261 yards, threw for 254 and led 24-17 entering the fourth quarter. Caden Rochleau ran for 200 yards and threw for 254.

What killed GS? Three turnovers and a 90-yard kickoff return for a touchdown.

Floyd Central has now moved up to No. 6 in Class 5A. That's considerably different context than simply saying "Gibson Southern is 0-1."

And before we're too quick to rearrange the Southwestern Indiana pecking order after one Friday in August, there's a pretty substantial body of evidence from the Nick Hart era.

Hart and Todd Wilkerson both became head coaches in 2012. Hart's Gibson Southern teams own the winning head-to-head record against Heritage Hills during that era. GS also owns a winning record against Evansville Memorial in its meetings since Hart took over.

And most importantly, we don't have to go back very far at all: Gibson Southern beat both Heritage Hills and Memorial last season. Heritage Hills entered that sectional meeting ranked No. 1 in Class 4A, and GS beat them anyway. Then came the win over Memorial, 28-21, then a win over Mater Dei, a regional championship and a trip to the south semi-state.

So Memorial deserves its flowers. Heritage Hills deserves some dandelions. They're outstanding programs. But I'm not ready to decide Gibson Southern suddenly belongs behind everybody because GS chose to open its season against a ranked 5A opponent and lost by seven.

Especially when you look at what comes next.

Saturday Gibson Southern doesn't get an easy rebound game. They get St. Pius X from Missouri, the defending Class 2 state runner-up. And this isn't a state-finalist roster that graduated everybody. St. Pius returns its starting quarterback, school-record-setting running back, most of its offensive line and five All-State players. The Lancers believe they're capable of going right back to the Show-Me Bowl.

So Gibson Southern's first two games are Week 1 against ranked Class 5A Floyd Central, and Week 2 against defending Missouri Class 2 state runner-up St. Pius X. That's intentional scheduling. If we're going to encourage programs to challenge themselves outside conference play, strength of schedule has to mean something when we evaluate them.  Those who have the balls shoudl be rewarded in my view.

If Gibson Southern gets completely handled Saturday, then we'll have some new information and can adjust accordingly. But if GS beats St. Pius, or we get another high-level, competitive game against an excellent opponent, I'm not sure an 0-1 or even potentially 0-2 record tells us nearly as much as who they played and how they played them.

It's August. Let's collect some evidence before we rewrite the hierarchy and a over a decade of current coaching history.

 

 

 

 

Gibson Southern has been a very good program for a number of years.  It's early in the season, so there's plenty of opportunity for them to move up the rankings.  Gibson Southern plays Heritage Hills head to head in week 6, so that will take care of itself.  So don't get your panties in a bunch just because someone with no influence on the real polls or Gibson Southern's win/loss record has your favorite team lower in a set a rankings then you would have them.

[SimpleWins]

16 hours ago, Titan32 said:

Football is kind of like the stock market....it's silly to talk about past success. You should know that in your position.  I can tell you who is probably over rated.

My comment wasn't a knock on Gibson by any means, just stating the facts on Floyd. I'd bet my house Gibson, Memorial, HH, and maybe Reitz/Mater Dei would beat Floyd come tournament time. 3A schools need a few weeks to get into game shape. Larger programs have plenty of kids to rotate in with fresh legs and sometimes its too much early in the season for smaller schools.

[Titan32]

1 hour ago, LC_Bears_04 said:

Gibson Southern has been a very good program for a number of years.  It's early in the season, so there's plenty of opportunity for them to move up the rankings.  Gibson Southern plays Heritage Hills head to head in week 6, so that will take care of itself.  So don't get your panties in a bunch just because someone with no influence on the real polls or Gibson Southern's win/loss record has your favorite team lower in a set a rankings then you would have them.

Thanks for the guidance.