MHSTigerFan

So is Bosse now. Eric Schnur posts here from time to time. I think he did a really good job in a very tough position. Nothing against Boonville, but I was sooo pulling for Bosse in that sectional game last year. They came so close.

Did I miss something? I thought he hadn’t committed anywhere yet.

Well, I worded that poorly. I agree that any prospect rated there isn’t getting a cold shoulder from the schools themselves. I was thinking more about the folks who do these evaluations. I always get a healthy dose of satisfaction when a high-rated prospect tanks and/or a low-rated prospect thrives. And while it’s certainly true that the lion’s share of NFL stars came from prestigious programs (they’re more often right than wrong), I love that the arguably best player in NFL history went to Mississippi Valley State.

A) He would be a scholarship player elsewhere. But the in-state P5 people apparently didn’t see him as a great prospect at their level. B) I’m sure a lot of it comes down to measurables. They put more stock in that stuff than I would — but, then, they’re the people whose livings are dependent on making these kinds of decisions. C) Here’s to hoping Charlie proves them wrong!! I know I’ll be pulling for him. Because I’m tired of seeing so many of our best HS players get the cold shoulder from IU and Purdue.

What do you mean “not NFL”? The Crimson Giants, though obviously short-lived (and not very good, to boot) were absolutely in the NFL. Well, technically, it was only called National Football League in their second of two seasons. In their first season, it was still called the American Professional Football Association. In fact, one of the teams the Crimson Giants played (and got throttled by) was the Green Bay Packers.

Jack Doyle went to Cathedral as well. Arguably the best all-time NFLer to hail from Indiana is the great Rod Woodson, who went to Snider and Purdue.

Also... Don Hansen (Ev Reitz)

From our neck of the woods, off the top of my head... Billy Hillenbrand (Ev Memorial) Larry Stallings (Ev Memorial) Bob Griese (Ev Rex Mundi) Marty Amsler (Ev Bosse) Scott Studwell (Ev Harrison) Kevin Hardy (Ev Harrison) Deke Cooper (Ev North) Sean Bennett (Ev Harrison) Ken Dilger (Heritage Hills) Jay Cutler (Heritage Hills) Ben Braunecker (Forest Park)

Colton’s going to be a senior. But I would put Josh Russell out there as a junior-to-be to watch. Tough kid.

Joey Paridaen at Evansville North. The Huskies really improved a lot this year and, from what I hear, Paridaen deserves a lot of the credit for instilling a culture of commitment and accountability. WR Dylan McKinney was one of the best players in Southwestern Indiana. Paridaen guided Eastern Greene to an appearance in the state finals a couple years ago. Keep an eye on him.

I’ll probably take some heat from my fellow Tiger fans in saying this. But, in a number of ways, Mooresville outplayed us. I don’t recall the yardage figures. But I’d be surprised if they didn’t outgain us. We capitalized on a very poorly thrown pass and a short field thanks to a fumble on the ensuing kickoff. Other than that, we didn’t move the ball very well. That said, our D did its usual job at being really hard to score on, too. It was a hard-fought game between two really tough teams. I can see why Mooresville knocked off EC.

This may sound like a flippant question, but I’m genuinely curious to hear your answer, given your comments about keeping things competitive.... Should IHSAA golf events be handicapped?

Speaking of football participation rates....what the heck has happened at Evansville Harrison? Their enrollment is listed by IHSAA at 1250. I never looked at their official roster. But, when we played them, I counted about 25 kids in uniform. And I'm pretty sure they didn't field a freshman team again this year. If that was correct, they've got about a 2% participation rate. And this is a school that has put 3 guys in the NFL (Scott Studwell, Kevin Hardy, Sean Bennett) -- and various other elite athletes (Calbert Cheaney, Walter McCarty, Joey Elliott, Chris Lowery, Brad Brownell).

Just out of curiosity, which are the rehashed arguments that have been thoroughly debunked here? You can't really debunk an opinion -- although you can certainly debunk arguments made to support one.

What makes you think 3A is the "toughest class in football"? I mean, I don't disagree that Chatard's team this year belongs in the discussion of best team in all classes. But, aside from that, I'd guess that virtually any other 3A team wouldn't have fared well playing in 5A or 6A. But, if they don't (and, you're right, they don't), what's the point of even saying this? No, reality is reality. Perceptions, on the other hand, are often distorted. I can't speak for any other school, but my P/P's enrollment has shrunk by about 25% since I went there. And, when I went there, we had never even gotten to a football state final. In the past 11 years, we've been 5 times, winning twice....and with significantly less enrollment. If you mentioned to our president or principal anything about "capping" enrollment, they'd laugh in your face while fighting off tears. The truth is that they're not far from desperate for more enrollments.

Also, speaking from experience these past several years, 3A has definitely been tougher than 4A in football...whatever that’s worth.

You realize that, if the IHSAA made this change, the cutoff points between classes would almost certainly shift down. Lots of schools would see significant decline in enrollment. Some more, some less. But I wouldn’t automatically assume that any particular school would go down in class.

Ha! I hear ya. I know Memorial is not unique in having a such a great, lifelong familial culture. But it certainly is that and I’m proud to be associated with it. What’s great about it, although some people view these sorts of schools as cliquey and exclusionary, is that we welcome with open arms new families who have no prior connection to the school. And anybody who thinks that most families who send their kids to parochial schools are “rich” is just wrong. I can’t tell you how many people I know for whom the tuition is a real burden. But when they ask us for fees to pay for this or that, most families who can afford it will kick in extra to help pay for those who can’t. Because that’s what families do for each other.

Memorial has been practically begging to get more students in the door for years. And, believe me, they couldn't care less if the student plays any sports. When I went there, we had around 800 students. Today, they have around 580. I'm not privy to any of the budgetary numbers. But, given the enrollment decline, I'm sure they aren't pretty. I don't know what the current football cutoff is between 2A and 3A (Mater Dei's listed enrollment is 497). But I bet we aren't terribly far off from it.

You brought this hypothetical kid up in relation to my comment about motivating kids to succeed in life. I responded in kind. Your original comment had nothing to do with counting special education or special need students in IHSAA enrollment figures. As such, neither did my response. I've already made clear elsewhere that I'm generally sympathetic to the argument you're referring to here. I don't think it really makes that big of a difference in all of this. But, to be sure, I would be supportive of a policy that excluded such students from the enrollment figures for purposes of classification. Assuming you don't start bringing home more championships, then what?

What in the name of all that's holy does dealing with a disabled kid -- or a hundred disabled kids -- have to do with IHSAA policies designed to advantage/disadvantage schools' athletic teams? Of course you deal with such kids differently than you do people of able body. So this is a complete non sequitur. But, since you mentioned it, our local press has focused a lot of attention on a Memorial student and his older sister (though she graduated last year) who both have Epidermolysis bullosa -- a horrifying disease that, among other things, makes their skin so delicate that it tears like wet toilet paper. They basically have to be wrapped up like mummies 24 hours a day. They can barely walk and they are in eternal pain. Among one of the ironies is that these childrens' father and uncle are two of the better athletes in Memorial's history. The uncle, who was HS baseball teammates with Don Mattingly, played in MLB himself for a number of years. Nobody has ever blown any sunshine to these kids about their prospects in life. They're going to have it rough, and they know it. But Sam, the freshman, is a huge sports fan and the team treats him like one of them. When he walks the halls at school, one of the players (often Brock Combs) accompanies him and carries his things to make sure that he gets where he needs to go safely. If you see any pictures of Brock at the celebration pep rally, you'll notice he's the only player not wearing his State Championship medal. That's because he gave his to Sam. Yes, I know that just about every school has kids like this. And just about every school has people in their community who go out of their ways to help them in countless ways. But I can tell you one thing, I've never run into anybody in our school community who would point to Sam or any other kid dealing with a hard situation there as a reason why the IHSAA needs to set policies that are designed to give us a better chance at winning sports tournaments.

I made that very comment in another thread. All I said is that, despite my haranguing about the Success Factor, the truth is that, if we were in 3A this year, we probably wouldn't be celebrating right now. That doesn't change my opinion about the success factor. But it's the truth. Sectional 32 is almost always a very tough sectional -- and both HH and GS were high caliber teams this year. Even if we'd have made it out of there, do I think we could've beaten Chatard again? I watched your game...and I have my doubts. They looked phenomenal.

That's a very presumptive statement. You have no idea how many of these kinds of situations exist at any particular school. Maybe they don't exist much at certain P/P schools, but do at others. To just make a blanket assertion like that is...well, let's just say it's akin to certain stereotypical attitudes that we've really been trying to exorcise from our society.

Bingo. You want to beat a team like Chatard? Improve. That's a much more constructive outlook than saying....get those bums into 4A, pronto!! We're entitled to win tournaments too and we can't do that as long as they're standing in the way! Now, I don't necessarily disagree with those saying that enrollment alone is not the best way to derive classes. But bumping up kids who were in 8th or 9th grade when a team had two successive great seasons? Senseless.

The world is a competitive place -- and real success does not come by throwing obstacles in other peoples' ways just because they're outpacing you. Preventing somebody from doing this is not "brushing them aside" at all. Nobody is entitled to any victory or championship. And to say "either I win championships too...or else you're brushing me aside" is ridiculous. If this is really indicative of your worldview, I'm glad my kids don't go to your school. You're going to have a hard time producing too many successful people if you encourage them to gauge their own success by how much better other people are doing relative to them...and thus just fomenting envy. What you should be encouraging them to do is model such people, not thwart them.