Bonecrusher
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Posts posted by Bonecrusher
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The youth league mine played in was flag for K-1st-2nd, start pads in 3rd. Junior fb 3rd-4th, senior fb 5th-6th. There is another league in town, and I believe they were/are the same.
These days, I could almost see waiting until 5th for pads. Use K thru 4th to teach good technique/fundamentals, then two years in pads before junior high.
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12 hours ago, foxbat said:
Private schools can compete in UIL in Texas, but they have to be accredited by the TPSAC and also be ineligible for other organizations like TAPPS or SPC ... usually due to their size. If they do play in UIL, they play up a level from classification. As for prestige, part of it is a numbers thing as there are close to 1,300 schools in UIL and only around 250 in TAPPS. Sheer numbers dictate coverage in media and other places. Also, familiarity is less with segregated leagues. Like you said, there are some very good schools in TAPPS, but the PPs that get a lot more attention are like Jesuit in Dallas and Strake out of Houston which play UIL ball in the 6A class. The mix in teams in Indiana creates familiarity which makes it very easy to compare public and private performance. If you split them, eventually over time you'd end up with a lot of "mythical state championship matches" ... no way to see them but plenty of arguments with little basis.
I stand corrected. There are indeed a few P/P schools competing with the publics. Saw a few in 1A and 3A-6A. Nothing in 2A, strangely enough.
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17 hours ago, foxbat said:
The big problem with that is that it isn't a set grouping. The divisions are only determined at the time of the the playoff qualifications. Texas takes the top four teams in a district to go on to the playoffs. The two with the largest enrollment go in the "big division" and the other two go in the "small division" for the class. You could end up with the four smallest teams in one district qualifying for the playoff. The two largest of those smallest would go in the "big division" and the other two would go in the "small division." The only two knowns are that the top two teams by enrollment in a dividsion would go big and the two smallest would go small if they qualify. Outside of that, the third-largest team in a district could go big or small depending on where they qualify out of the district.
I admit I may not be understanding your reply correctly, so keep that in mind when you read this.
If you are saying that breaking the classifications down into Div. 1/Div. 2 (large/small) doesn't happen until playoff time, that is incorrect. Breaking them down (ex. 3A-D1 & 3A-D2) is a set grouping they do at the start of every realignment. There are enrollment ranges for each of the classes broken down by division, and your school stays there until the next realignment. 6A is the only exception; there is no D1/D2 in that classification. Top four teams from 3A-D1 District "X" go to their D1 playoff bracket for two years, top four from 3A-D2 District "Y" go to their D2 bracket. See the attached screen shot. It's from the 2020-2022 realignment cycle.
Anyway, this isn't about the Texas system. I was just thinking since there's such a wide range of enrollment ranges in some of these classes, if you essentially break each one in half (like they do in TX), it may even things out a little more.
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Talking about the broad range of enrollments in these classes being too wide - maybe we need to break the classes down a little further?
Texas has 1A - 6A, Division1 and Division 2. Break each class down into two division (i.e. big 2A and small 2A). Essentially you have 12 classifications instead of six, so the enrollments are significantly closer together within each class. One problem solved, two (coaching & socioeconomic) to go.
I realize this may not be possible due to the smaller size of Indiana vs. Texas. I don't know less teams per class, maybe justifies keeping the all-in?
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43 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:
Simple solution. Add a class to the IHSAA, 7A is nothing but PP schools and let them duke it out!! See problem solved! It's that simple.
There are other states that do something similar now.
TAPPS (Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools) is the organization that administers athletic/musical/academic competitions for the P/P's. They are allowed to compete with public schools, within limitations. Example, my kid's school has played a Catholic school football team in pre-district for many years. They are a very good team that competes well with public 2A programs (they are a 2A sized school), and more often than not goes deep in the TAPPS post season. To the best of my knowledge a TAPPS state championship does not seem to have the same "prestige" as a UIL (UIL = IHSAA) state championship. Not saying that's right or wrong for it to be that way, just how it is. And it's too bad, because there are some excellent P/P programs down here, a handful that could put a whoopin' on some of the good public schools.
The prestige, or lack of, could be an issue if a separate class is made just for P/P's. A lot of public school folk here sort of look down their noses at TAPPS schools, and that's very unfortunate. That may not be the case up north in my home state, seeing the quality of football played by a lot of the P/P's. However, if they compete in their own "bubble", it could be an unintended consequence down the road, maybe?
4 minutes ago, Bonecrusher said: -
On 12/5/2020 at 12:56 PM, foxbat said:
I understand where you are coming from, but as I look at this, it's a school/coach issue as much as it is a kid issue. Football is a team sport and while folks get heated in the course of a play and sometimes right after a hit you shove someone or say something, no one should ever feel that they have a right, green light, ability, or anything else to leave the sideline like that, run across the field, and strike someone else.
Youth ball may be different than high school ball, but frankly it shouldn't be. I've coached 18 seasons of youth ball and never, in all of my years of coaching, ever had to worry about any of my players talking back to ref, pitching a fit on the field, striking another player after a play even if they were hit first, etc. In every season we have a couple early practices long before we ever play our first game where I sit the kids down and tell them exactly what I expect their behavior to be and exactly what I expect it not to be. We talk about not talking back to a ref or questioning a call. We talk about if they have an issue they tell me about it and I'll talk with the ref or the other coach. We talk about always walking away if you are struck after a play and letting the refs and me worry about what will happen. We also talk about helping the opponent up after a tackle and, if offered a hand up by an opponent accepting that offer even if you took a big hit. We also talk about the fact that they are part of something bigger and that their actions, both on and off the field, are not just reflective upon themselves, but also reflective of their teammates, their coaches, their program, and their schools. Then as part of the talk before the first game I remind them of that and add one more thing, "To act like you've been there before. Be humble in victory, and gracious in defeat." I love it when my kids perform on the field, but I love it just as much when they respect the game, the refs, the opponents, and their own teammates. And my players all know that and know without a doubt exactly how I expect them to play and to act.
It's a harsh thing to have happen, but if it happened on one of my teams, I would hold no ill will against the association and I would explain it to my team that the fault was mine and the player's for not doing a better job looking out for our team.
Agree 100% with your post.
It's also possible the decision makers might be trying to send a message that this kind of behavior is absolutely unacceptable. Aside from whatever might have been going on with the player, this could be a culture/discipline issue within the team, or maybe the athletic program as a whole. Can't say for sure, but the player should have been monitored better on the sidelines. I've seen some pretty enraged high school and college players ejected, and I wouldn't trust some of them unsupervised on the sidelines - or anywhere until they cool off.
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16 hours ago, Purdue Pete said:
He’ll be playing for Lane Kiffen in a couple years.
Not just kids ... look around
Agreed.
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Anyone, (news media, kid's family, SJW's, etc.) that would honestly say the ref is ruining the kids life if he does file charges or other is kidding themselves. The player did that the minute he chose to leave the sidelines and rush the ref. He has to accept the consequences of his actions - a concept that is largely lost on kids in our society today.
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This is the latest info from just the last several minutes on a Texas football forum - so take it for what it's worth. Got folk down here stirred up big time.
Charges have been filed - class A misdemeanor. Player is supposedly in jail with $10K cash bond. Player is suspended from school for the remainder of the year. US31 is correct, the school board met with district (conference) officials and they have removed the school from the playoffs.
The UIL (Texas' version of IHSAA) used to require an ejected player to leave the sidelines (i.e. go to locker room), but changed it allowing them to stay on sidelines, just can't play. This might make them re-think that one.
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1 hour ago, Bobref said:
Here’s my dream system:
- 6 classes: 32 in 6A & 5A, 64 in 4A - 1A.
- Top 16 in 6A & 5A, top 32 in 4A - 1A make the playoffs.
- Ratings system similar to the Harbin system in Ohio, that takes into account both strength of schedule and won-loss record.
- 10 regular season games.
- 5 week tournament, with 6A and 5A getting a bye the first week, in which they are free to schedule another game if they choose.
- 8 sectionals in each class, teams grouped geographically, seeded in accordance with ratings.
- Higher seeded teams always have home field in sectional.
- Classes reseeded after sectional, divided into north and south, and then matched up 1 vs. 8, 2 vs. 7, etc., in the regional and semistate, both of which are played at neutral sites. Explore the possibility of semistate “doubleheader’s” at suitable venues.
- Keep the Success Factor, but double the points needed to move up & stay up, and double the cycle to 4 yrs., using a rolling calculation.
By the way, one of the collateral benefits of the implementation of my system will be a doubling (at least) of the traffic on the GID. 😉
Change my mind.
41 minutes ago, BTF said:Your system makes too much sense. I'm all in.
Ditto
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17 hours ago, foxbat said:
I have to admit that the vast majority of my Texas experience is based on big school ... I have confessed to being a big-school bigot prior to moving to Indiana. My old stomping grounds were District 17 when I was back in school and District 5 as a taxpayer ... and yes, that school to the north has lots of my tax dollars invested in it. 😀 My alma mater's district has eight teams, so they play a full seven games in-district and three outside.
My old school district is actually so large now, that it spans two Texas football districts to fit all the schools in 16 and 17. They still schedule some games with teams in District 15 as those are some old rivalries from the 1970s that dissolved as that area grew big and had to add more football districts. When I was in high school there, my school district had three high schools and we were the brand-new third school. That school district now has 12 6A high schools ... talk about everything being big in Texas ... that school district alone would be just a tad under 40% of Indiana 6A.
Wow! Yes, everything IS bigger in Texas lol.
Houston area, IIRC?
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45 minutes ago, foxbat said:
In Texas, a big part of the reason that their qualification works, besides the sheer number of teams which makes all-in infeasible, is that teams are assigned to proximity-based districts based on size of school. There are no conferences, no one chooses which district they want or don't want to belong to. Most districts are 8 to 10 schools and you typically play everyone in your district to make the within district numbers apples-and-apples. The state takes the top 4 teams in a district to qualify for the post-season. Of course, there's nothing that assures between-district parities, so potentially, the 5th place school in your district could be better than the 3rd-place school in the next district, but they go to the post-season and you stay home. Typically you don't see a lot of cross-over play, if any, between classes.
I can't speak for the larger schools, but 2A thru 4A typically 6 or 7 teams per district, maybe one or two 8-team districts per class. Ideally your 10-game schedule is 5 non-district and 5 district games. The outliers will have less of one & more of the other.
Between district parity is the one thing that still causes some grief here and there. Your example of that is spot on. Case-in-point, the 2A school my kids graduated from has a quarter-final game tomorrow night vs. another school from our own district. Each quarter, or "regional", is made up of four districts (with 4 teams/district) and teams are seeded. So, the top two teams in our region this year, among the total 16, are from the same district and were the 1st & 2nd place teams in that district. There was at least one district in this region, whose top team probably wouldn't have finished better than 4th in our district. The parity thing can be resolved in many districts/regions, but there has to be a concerted effort to do this, and because of geographical/socioeconomic/other factors, there always seem to be some outliers every cycle.
Again 2A through 4A, most schools try to play up a class one or two games in non-district. We usually had two games vs. 3A opponents, two games vs. other real good 2A teams and one easy win.
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They need to increase the number of reactions you can have in a day. Already reached my limit before making it to this thread!
54 minutes ago, Lysander said:Just goes to show, Catholics do more with less.
Well played, sir.
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1 hour ago, boilerfan87 said:
Do away with conferences. Utilize sectionals as districts. Top 4 or 6 teams (1A-4A) from each make the playoffs (based on district standings). Playoffs feature cross sectional matchups based on seeds based on district standings. 10 game regular season. 7 district games, 3 non-district games to schedule as you choose. No formulas. No controversy.
It's far fetched but it's essentially what Kentucky does molded to fit Indiana. Districts change every two years when enrollments are reclassified. Many of the sectionals are conference opponents anyway. 3 open weeks give you the opportunity to schedule a rival if they aren't in your district. You can schedule easy or tough, whichever serves your school best.
It'll never pass, but this experience was the best I've ever had as a coach. I've been on both ends of the spectrum in Indiana. Having had the opportunity to see it done different, it makes no sense how Indiana does it.
I don't expect many to agree, and that is fine. Just one man's opinion.
You haven't ever lived in Texas, have you lol? This is almost, to the letter, what they're doing - and I'd imagine other states with qualification-style playoffs are similar.
Top 4 teams from each district make playoffs. Districts are normally 6 or 7 teams, so they're getting the top half to two-thirds from each district. There are a lot of folk down here that say 4 teams are too many. 10 game season, 4 or 5 non-district games to start with, then 5 or 6 district games - and those are what get you into the post season and determine seeding. Most of the "good" teams try to schedule a few really tough opponents for non-district. Toughen up the kids, learn a few things from some better competition, etc. Something I would think the Snider's/Homestead's/Carroll's would, or really should, do if that were an option.
FWIW I don't think there will be an end to this debate. I'll admit there are legit arguments on both sides, but don't see people being swayed from one to the other.
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20 minutes ago, scarab527 said:
Lol that’s all you needed to say.
You're right.
Believe it or not, I think I can understand where the opposing view is coming from - just don't agree with it. Fortunately, we can agree to disagree.
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42 minutes ago, scarab527 said:
How is it an “everyone gets a trophy mentality” when every player knows they have to win 2-3 games to get a trophy?
I didn't say everyone literally gets a trophy, it's that mentality that opens up the playoffs to everyone instead of the better/best teams (i.e. "We don't want to leave anyone out"). IMHO playoffs are a reward for the best performing teams to show their stuff against other best performing teams (best performing = winning). Like I said previously, post-season should be a privilege, not a right. I'm tired of people not wanting anyone to get their feelings hurt, so "let's let them all in". Not a good life lesson there.
If a 0-9, 1-8, etc. team rips through the playoffs, there's a problem with that sectional that needs addressed, or that team has a crazy hard schedule/conference that needs to be looked at.
Sorry, that's how I feel and ain't no one changing my mind.
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"All in" = Everyone gets a trophy mentality.
Playoffs are a privilege, not a right IMHO.
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On 11/28/2020 at 3:07 PM, BTF said:
Then yes, South Adams is a Fort Wayne area team. I was kidding with my last statement. If those teams aren't Indianapolis, then Homestead and Carroll aren't Fort Wayne.
You know, I think my mind's been changed. Consistent local media (TV, newspaper) coverage of a school could justify calling it a "XYZ"-area school. Had not considered that argument yet.
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18 hours ago, BTF said:
I understand that there are more than a few cornfields that separate Indy from Thornstown. No different than Fort Wayne and Huntington. But that doesn't mean Western Boone isn't considered Indy Metro. I think it's fair for me to call Western Boone an "Indy area" team.
I'm late to the party, but....
I lived in Huntington for many years and don't ever recall the people there thinking of HNHS as a Fort Wayne area school. Yeah, they would say Huntington is 30-some miles southwest of FW, but only using FW as a point of reference, not considering HNHS under the FW "umbrella".
Looked up WEBO on Google maps, and it looks about halfway between Indy and Lafayette; not sure if I'd consider them an Indy area school at first glance. Looks pretty rural to me and enough separation from Indy to be considered a "stand alone". Maybe once the suburban sprawl swallows them them up, OK, but that might be a while. Just my opinion, understand others will see it differently.
Heartbreaker for Luers, I was pulling for them. Hopefully next year.
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3 hours ago, WDWarriors said:
I graduated in 2010. I was a starting OL/DL on the 2008 and 2009 Regional teams.
OK, you're quite a bit younger than my wife & I. She graduated in 1988. Had several nieces/nephews there off and on over the years, but I can't recall anyone being there in the same time frame as you. Quite a change in the program from those glory years to where they're at now. Hopefully they can bring it back some day.
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20 hours ago, Basementbias said:
Normally I'd be rooting against SA since I'm an AC guy. However, when you get to the state finals you have to root for your county brethren. Adams Central in 2001, Bellmont in 2008, and I'm hoping South Adams in 2020.
Need to change your avatar. Keeps throwing me off regarding which team you support most of the time lol.
3 hours ago, WDWarriors said:I believe AC won in 2000 - correct? I am a Southern Wells Alum and know that the Raiders beat Perry Central in 2001 @ the RCA Dome. AC, SW, and Southwood came from the same Sectional and won three straight state titles. Talk about a tough sectional!
What year? My wife graduated from there, too.
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24 minutes ago, Starfire said:
Man I hope you’re right! Appreciate the ACAC support!
ACAC guys gotta stick together. We don't get much respect these days lol.
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18 hours ago, Purdue Pete said:
1A - CC has better athletes and more speed which will be a shock to SA... SA passed on opportunities to play decent competition this year in favor of going “undefeated”... soft schedule comes back to haunt them...cc by 14
2a - Webo won’t be able to run the ball and then will try to pass... which they cant. Luers by 28
3a - chatard just seems to play up to the level of their competition. Danville has good size up front but hasn’t seen athletes like they will this weekend . Chatard by 10
4a - Roncalli is dominate up front. Mooresville was the 2nd best team in Indiana. Roncalli by 21
5A - cathedral by 28
1A - SA by 14 points
2A - Luers by 9 points
3A - 5A Agree with all
Donald Trump thread v2.0
in OOB Forum
Posted
I couldn't agree more with this post. Neither the so-called peaceful protesting of the spring/summer or what happened in DC is right. Neither should have taken place in civilized society. The law breakers in both camps should have been/should be arrested and prosecuted.
The villifying/condemning of one group and endorsement/acceptance of another, who by and large were doing the same thing, by the media shows just how extremely biased they really are.