23andCounting

Not sure that's really possible if you look a the post above yours.

LAST 40 SEASONS 1986 through 2025 seasons W L Pct. Penn 425 77 .847 FW Snider 392 98 .800 Heritage Hills 381 96 .799 Jimtown 375 112 .770 Linton 356 110 .764 Jasper 344 107 .763 Indy Chatard 388 124 .758 Ben Davis 376 121 .757 East Central 363 119 .753 Carmel 373 124 .751 Eastbrook 343 118 .744 Brownstown 334 115 .744 Homestead 321 115 .736 FW Dwenger 366 132 .735 Indy Cathedral 369 136 .731 Indy Roncalli 355 135 .724 New Palestine 332 129 .720 NorthWood 347 138 .715 Adams Central 344 143 .706 Ev. Reitz 323 135 .705 Center Grove 333 142 .701 Andrean 340 145 .701 Warren Central 327 140 .700 Hamilton SE 303 132 .697 Pioneer 317 143 .689

No need to defend Penn's integrity. Arguably the best program this state has ever seen. Penn's success goes back 5 decades. Really only Cathedral from the Indy area and compete with that. Carmel, Ben Davis, and Warren Central have more championships than Penn, but they are a bunch of up and down yo yo's.

Warren had more than home field advantage that game. Not only was it in Indy, it was played in a fairy tale environment. Real football outdoors? That's a different game at Freed Field. Outcome is the same, but MUCH different score.

Fishers? Yeah, probably. Who else? Don't know don't care. Just looking forward to how the season plays out. Whatever makes you feel better regarding 2004. Weeks 1-9, Snider would have won in Warren's back yard. Rod Woodson's 1981 team is a difficult one to explain, not doing it here. I'll PM you if you want.

I'd say 5-5 without Lewis, 8-2 or 9-1 with. Won't argue with 7 of 10. Lots of things went Warren's way that night with Snider's best player on the sidelines.

Then ring one up for Snider in 1981, 1986, & 2004. Injuries were the reason they didn't win state those years.

My presumption is that Crown Point is better than Penn or Carroll. We really don't know until they play.

Let's also be clear that a coach is the only one who can determine what is a successful season or not. Did my team play to their potential even though we finished 4-6? If the answer is yes, then that's a successful season. As an outsider of the program, I'd say a successful season for CP would be a sectional championship. I don't think you can dub an entire season as unsuccessful after a loss to Penn or Carroll..........those are really good teams.

A blowout loss to Carmel is a successful season? I'm confused. I've said numerous times that I like Sagarin as it's the best thing we have, it just has many flaws to be the 'be all end all.' Bishop Dwenger at #40, that's a flaw. You're just not thinking things all the way through when reading my posts. You say the first thing on your mind, then your brain stops. I think if you go back to all of my posts where I site Sagarin, you'll find that I enjoy looking at the rankings and even use it as a reference, even though there are flaws with the system. DC over Cathedral.........flaw. Cascade over Carroll............flaw.

Define "good." My definition of "good" is Top 50 overall. Certainly out of 314 teams, at least 40-50 are good, right? Hell, Sagarin has Northrop at #54, and I'd consider them "good." Adams Central (47), good. Mishawaka (45) good. Dwenger (40), good. I don't recall saying any of those teams aren't good. I've questioned them as Top 25 teams, but that doesn't mean they're not good. Show me a receipt that suggests that I said those teams weren't good. I consider Carroll better than all three mentioned teams, but they're "good" enough to take Carroll out if the Chargers don't bring their A game.

I said "good looking" win. I'd qualify beating Pike by 3 touchdowns a "good looking win" considering that's a wider margin than what Zionsville, Warren Central, and Ben Davis beat them by.

Good grief, lots to unpack here. I'll try to keep it brief. I gotta laugh at "would lose" to Fishers. I think you meant "could lose." Although I have that game going either way, I still have CP above Fishers in seeding since CP doesn't have two MASSIVE blowout losses on their resume. That's a hill I'll die on, and if I were on the committee, I'd pull a 72 hour shift defending that one. Like it or not, Crown Point's has three good looking wins over Merrillville, Pike, and Lowell. That outweighs Fishers massive blowout losses to Brownsburg and Carmel. Just be happy I'm giving in to Westfield. At some point, winning matters.

I think Crown Point might do better than a 24 point margin against Carmel. Westfield's loss against Brownsburg is pretty impressive (guys from Indy call it a moral victory if the team is from the north) though. I won't play that game, I'll just call it what it is, an "impressive" loss. That being said, with strength of schedule, I'll give you Westfield at #2. Not budging after that though. Gimmie CP over Fishers.

Lol.

No, I forgot that CG beat LN head to head in a close game. I've gotta give the Trojans that #2 seed.

I noticed that too, so back to my option #2. Going with a committee, you might find Crown Point and Lawrence North with better seeding. Other than that, it looks pretty accurate. Where would you have Merrillville seeded?

We may have to ban him from posting if CP makes it to Lucas.

Sagarin would be my #2 option. My #1 would be a seven person committee with representatives from NE, NW, EC, WC, Indy Area would be Central, SE, and SW. And the committee would be comprised of members of this forum. I don't trust the media. Nor would I trust a current coach or an athletic director. I think we could find seven guys here who could give an objective opinion. I think the reps would come from Fort Wayne, South Bend, Lafayette, Indy, Muncie, Evansville, and someone from either Columbus or Madison to represent the SE. If you're asking me how I would seed it myself, that would take a bit of time. I could get back to you later tonight probably.

I put more stock into transitive property than I do the Sagarin Ratings. You give a good example, but that's just one game. You have to look at overall body of work. Are we back to "Snider could beat Ben Davis in 2023" based on their common opponent in Warren Central? It goes beyond one game Temp. Ben Davis was embarrassed by the best three teams on their schedule. I'm not sold that those teams would do the same to Crown Point.

You're too smart to actually believe that. If you were handicapping that game you'd have Crown Point as an 11 or 12 point favorite.

And with Tae Johnson in the defensive backfield, the Irish should be pretty solid. Good representation from the north.

Any chance Rodney and I can come? Maybe Komets and FootballKing? Sounds like a good time. I'll take the wine coolers if Temp doesn't want them. I'll sip on my "girly" drink while utterly destroying all of you in a debate.

Center Grove? I've got them barely 4th in their own state.

CP by 3 touchdowns if we're being honest.