OldschoolFB

1 hour ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Recruiting and decisions for young players out of high school is not a one-size-fits-all proposition quit trying to make it that way

In my opinion only, a lot of how these kids perform depends on a number of things.  Many times the highly recruited athlete go into Frosh camp with egos and expectations much too high.  They have never faced adversity and assume they will be the man no matter what.  They don’t know what many athletes have had to go through to get even a sniff.  A player like Charlie may feel as if he’s been slighted and come in even hungrier than ever.  Or he may always be looked at as a fullback and not get a fair look(although I doubt this very much).  One thing he will have to adjust to is not getting the ball more than 50% of the time and being THE focal point of the team’s Offense.  He will also  be facing guys who are as strong as him for the first time ever.   My guess is he will surprise many people and prove them wrong.  I don’t know him at all.  I’ve just heard about how hard he works.  It seems to me the kind of drive he is said to have will carry him through.  I wish him nothing but success in Bloomington.  

1 hour ago, MHSTigerFan said:

 

I flat guarantee there are gobs of diamonds in the rough out there who could be fine FBS-level players, if only given the chance.  But they just have this or that flaw -- a couple inches too short, a couple steps too slow, etc.

I understand why scouts put such a premium on these measurables.  But it's so myopic, isn't it?  It's almost....lazy.

^^^^^^^

We have a winner.  Many recruiters are not only lazy, most of them are too afraid to actually put their stamp of approval on a player unless they have already been offered by other “equivalent programs”.  Measurables are a nice place to start but you also have to be a football player.  Lineman and QB to a lesser extent may be one of the places where height plays a bigger role in football. 

7 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

This is what I have to say about Charlie Spegal 

"Heavy is the Head that wears the Crown"   

 

 

Very true. He was eligible.  Therefore, it doesn’t matter if he turns 20 this school year or not.   He is still the record holder and likely will be for a very very very long times.  Personally, I would not let the comments bother me If he was on my team.    It actually seems to give the appearance of validity to the gripe about his age.  If he is within the rules, he’s within the rules.  Having said that, the loyalty amongst the New Pal guys on here is something to be admired.  You want everyone associated with the program to be at their best and want the best for each other.   Coach Ralph has created a true team from the players on up to the parents. 

On 12/2/2019 at 10:57 AM, dmizers3 said:

This is the most correct answer I've seen.  I'd probably add Snider and/or Dwenger to the list although I don't know enough about Ft. Wayne demographics to be sure.

Snider has had 5 coaches in its history .  The last 3 have all been from the same mold. Mike Hawley 1976-1990.  Russ Isaacs 1990-2009.  Kurt Tippmann 2009-present. All three are/were phenomenal.  

Fort Wayne buses kids all over the place so all the schools will be getting a diverse student body.   However, Snider has the best location as far as neighborhood kids go in FWCS.  It is a mix of blue collar and upper.middle class which usually makes for good football. The fan base is very loyal and passionate.  It’s a great job but the coach has to understand Snider’s culture.  

Dwenger’s fanbase is borderline insane.  However, there is also an insane amount of loyalty to the program by the alumni.  If you prove to the BD fans that you do it “the right way” and leave it all on the field, they love you forever.  They have great tailgating and have many 3rd generation kids playing football.  This alone makes it a viable place to win but they also have a great feeder system which churns our player after player. .  The traditions at Dwenger are very special and are expected to be followed but each senior class is allowed their own unique traditions as well.  It is literally an amazing culture unlike any other in the State(not necessarily better or worse, just very unique ). The job is definitely one of the best, however, you will be under a microscope by the fans.  Anything less than State is a let down with the exception of perhaps this season being the first in 5A.  Any season they don’t make Semi State is considered a huge bust.  But when you do win,  it’s a pretty  special place.   

6 hours ago, dmizers3 said:

Now that the season is over, curious if anyone thinks there is a legit case for anyone other than Charlie Spegal for Mr. Football?  I know I am biased,  but objectively I can't see voting for anyone else. 

From a statistical standpoint,  Charlie is the guy.  In fact, he should and will win.  From a best football player standpoint, there are several players who are on par with him.   One of them is also on NP. The Hook as i like to call him. . Also, Taylor from Chatard, Valpo DE, he is Jr though. Bailey Parker had a huge year.  Archbald from Homestead. Combs from Memorial. Finley from Dwenger.  Carmel LB. DE at New Pal also every bit as important as Charlie.  Cathedral Safety is very good too. I’m sure I’m missing a few but that’s off the top of my head.  However,  Charlie is a once in a generation player who was the perfect player for his teams style of play.   He is also EXTREMELY durable, highly underrated as a blocker and overall football player.  He is hands down the man and if anyone votes for anyone else, they should lose their voting privileges.  

On 12/2/2019 at 12:43 PM, JQWL said:

I feel like many of the arguments in this thread are one sided.

"We have to play private schools with more advantages." The reply is, "The world isn't' fair."

"We got bumped up and have to play in a bigger class." Shouldn't the reply, "The world isn't fair" apply here too?

Only if we had a one class playoff system would this asinine argument hold any weight.  

If you want to have a class playoff system based on enrollment, that’s the way it has to be for everyone.  

One comment I hear that bothers me quite a bit is private schools have parents who are involved. This is true, however, every single parent doesn’t have their child involved in football.  The fact that there are so many sports now for kids to play makes it harder for the private schools to maintain excellence UNLESS they have fully committed coaches who in turn hold the players accountable.  If you want to win, that’s what it takes and it doesn’t always happen overnight.  

The amount of geeks roaming the halls who are attending private schools for the sole reason of getting into a good college would surprise you.   Not everyone wants to play football.  But when you create a culture that makes kids want to play and hold them accountable towards a winning way, you will win.  

1 hour ago, Irishman said:

I agree that the open enrollment thing is a joke. But what we see is that those who do transfer are not transferring for athletics so much as they are thinking they can avoid a level of discipline if they stay. We have students who have enrolled the last week or so, who were told if you transfer, we will not expel you......

Soooooo, what you are saying is that the 1,000 or so kids at Dwenger is basically the same as the 1,000 or so at New Haven? Both are 4A schools......with the ONLY difference than the “traditional commitment and drive to win”??????? Seriously? Take one day to walk our halls, and I guarantee that impression will change in a heartbeat.

As others have said, committed parents make a HUGE difference, no doubt about it. What has been basically ignored, outside of a post or two, is the special needs population. Our building alone has about 10% of its population in that category. Very few of them are on diploma track. With certificate track kids in our building the absolute highest possible rate for graduation is at 92%. And there are a number of those kids that have minimal skills. The special education staff in our building makes up 25% of our staff. The new pathways to graduation our ingenious politicians came up with has forced even more lower functioning students into gen ed classes. In one class alone, I have close to half the class that are low functioning. Communication skills are the level of a 2 or 3 year old. I have others in that group that do not communicate at all, are confined to wheelchairs, wear a bib to catch the drool coming out of their mouths, or have other severe disabilities. It fits the schedules of the paras and nurses that have to accompany these students to have them in one period, but they make up 10% of my population for this semester. 
Now who wants to continue the conversation about the REAL differences? And who still actually thinks you are somehow being “punished” for success? When you want to have a REAL conversation about who gets punished for what when schools are classified, let me know. 

If the participation level is 35% to 70%, move a school down in enrollment.  The truth is, FW South Side is never going to compete in anything in 4A as things stand.   The problem, however, will become when they do win in a lower class, the athletes around town will flock to that school immediately.   They will then be in a Division where they dominate and are a larger school.  

There is also the issue where Carmel and virtually every Indianapolis area school doubles the size of a few other 6A schools outside of Indy.  For some reason, nobody cares about that.  Gee, I wonder why?   Do you know which school didn’t whine and moan about Carmel and other Indy schools size?  New Palestine   They just got better   If you want to win, you have to commit and a made up rule that was created to give someone fairness isn’t living in reality   

For the record, I don’t care if Carmel is that big,  it will be nice that they will have to come through the South next year. 

The bottom line is this, there is not a perfect system.  The schools with the resources, public and private, that want to win find a way. The schools mentioned that have a hard time getting kids to come out for athletics have much deeper problems that have nothing to do with athletics.  The success factor rule won’t have anything to do with whether or not these schools change OR if they win State in football.   

On 11/30/2019 at 1:43 PM, CaptainHook said:

So what?  You are predicting 4 stars for sophs now?  New Pal won.  At their place.  By three scores.  CG got better?  So did NP.

so stupid!

Just read a few of these.  New Pal beat CG soundly at CG. New Pal beat Cathedral at Cathedral(I think), soundly.   Cathedral beat Trinity soundly.  Trinity smoked Carmel. Carmel only beat CG by 3.   New Pal is better than all of them.   So is Valpo and I’m starting to think so is Dwenger.  5A was better than 6A this year.   It happens.  

5 hours ago, Knightmare said:

Hats off to Memorial. The more physical team won the game. That drive in the 3rd quarter was a killer, but I still can’t get over how poorly EN played offensively. A lot of that had to do with the pressure and EN’s inability to slow down the rush at all. The lack of screens, quick passes, and Hayden Jones not touching the ball at all was shocking to me. 

East Noble put too much on a couple players shoulders.  Any good defense can shut that down unless you’re dealing with a Hershel Walker type of player or if you have a dominant O Line that allows for a RB to run through huge lanes. Even Spegal was pedestrian save for the one brilliant play call by the big fella Coach Ralph.  Outside of that Spegal averaged roughly  3.5 per.  New Pal knew this and on the first drive of the game, Spegal touched the ball only once for a yard or two and New Pal still scored.  East Noble didn’t have a plan B. 

48 minutes ago, DannEllenwood said:

School choice scholarship/vouchers?  Anyone discuss this?

In FWCS, all you have to do is find a class not offered at your school that is offered at the one you want to attend for free.  The amount or transferring that happens every year is ridiculous. Most, not all,  but most happens within the public schools.  The other Allen county schools, you just have to have an address in that location as you can attend. I can’t speak for the other areas of the state but it’s likely similar.

Private schools  hold no advantage other than the traditional commitment and drive to win.  

What I find to be strange is nobody ever talks about the advantages a school with 5300 students might have playing Homestead with half the enrollment, with both teams in classified as 6A.    If you want “fair” which is what the success factor supposedly wants, split all of the Football teams in Indianapolis that have enrollments double that of the lowest participant in 6A and make 2 teams.  Sound idiotic?   So does a rule that punishes a school and students  for excelling over a 2 year period.   For the record, I’m not at all for splitting the 6A schools into 2 teams but I am also not at all in favor of the  success factor.  And certainly not for making a school move up 2 classes.  

6 minutes ago, DT said:

Valpo passing game was putrid.  They connected on a few but way to many over thrown passes and a game killing pick six.  No use of the TE.  

Opperman was 13-31-1.  41% completion rate.  Balls were flying all over the field.  

Putrid is what Valpo passing game was against Dwenger.   Today, it was average, some great plays, some bad plays but ultimately enough to give his team a chance to win. 

9 minutes ago, BTF said:

Kolkman and Garrett are doing something right at Dwenger. Their defense sold me last year at state when the held Evansville Central to 0 pts through 4 quarters. That teams was averaging over 40 a game. It carried over into this season. Great coaching, plain and simple. 

Dwenger had the skill guys to do it, they adjusted too late to pass more and then went 4 vertical routes too often when they did.  The play BD  scored on was improvised according to the 2 kids interviewed after the game.  But man I as Valpo’s o and D line unbelievable 

Just now, dmizers3 said:

True, I was surprised at how well Valpo was able to throw it against a very solid, experienced secondary.   Some great WR and QB play.  Outstanding football game. 

That was the number 1 thing that surprised me as well.  I thought maybe a pass or 2 underneath, quick slants MAYBE 1 or 2  deep balls.  The Valpo  QB and WR s did a nice job today.  

Also have to factor in New Pal QB went out early but that’s the football and you have to adjust Which New Pal did. 

4 minutes ago, FWfootball10 said:

I just think a lot of people were unfamiliar with Valpo. I knew from watching them play Dwenger they would give New Pal a game. They’re too talented, huge, and physical on D to get blown out by anybody in Indiana. I still believe if those teams played 10 times Valpo would win half. They don’t though. Credit to New Pal for blowing open the 3rd quarter and making the necessary plays to win the game. 

 Very hard to run up the middle against Valpo as Spegal found out.  BUT New Pal went to speed option to get Big Charlie running downhill and they broke one.  Outside of that run, I think Spegal was held in check to around 4 yards per carry.   Of course, you can’t leave that out which is why he has run for 10000 plus in his career.  

New Pal’s Hook and the kid going to MSU and their LBs impressed me a lot.  

Valpo has most of their lineman on both sides that impressed me.  Obviously #11, Plus the other DE and #33.  Burbee is very good and Valpo WR proved to be better than they were in Semi State.  

I loved that game tonight. 

45 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Now THAT was an interception.

 

Yes it was.  New Pal is fun to watch.  So was Valpo.  Valpo actually wore New Pal down as opposed to what was supposed to happen.   What a great game with 2 great teams.  I think Valpo proved the North was much better than everyone down south thought.   

Difference in the game was New Pal coming at you on every play, very smart team, experienced team and made two huge plays on D causing TO’s that led to scores. Plus Spegal making 1 big play.   

They are a Championship caliber team for sure.  Congrats to New Pal. 

Look New Pal is no doubt a great team and a great program.  They know how to win.  They are relentless and very very confident.   

You made an excuse about the 2 catches that by rule go to the offense.  I don’t like it when it happens to the teams I like.  But the rule is the rule.   As I’m watching now, Valpo will throw too many vertical and not go short and New Pal will win. 

They are great.  Everyone knows it.  But you made an excuse because it was tied at the time. One my second graders doesn’t make.  

Congrats to New Pal who is literally one of the all time, if not the greatest all time program over the course of 7 years in the history of the state. 

15 minutes ago, dmizers3 said:

2 clear New Pal interceptions called catches for Valpo on the opening 3rd quarter drive, fortunately it doesn't matter after a missed FG 

My 2nd grader doesn’t make that excuse. Make the play.  Not half the play.  

New Pal lucky to have Spegal or they would be good team but not great.  Should be utilizing Hook more on O.  Smart play by Coach Ralph on the option to Speegs 

10 hours ago, slice60 said:

Valpo did have 2 long TD runs called back by penalty.

Dwenger did under throw two long passes that were caught that if thrown in stride would have resulted in touchdowns. We can play the what if game all day.   

Having said that, at the end of the game, Valpo scored 3 more points.  The FG was because of poor punt return coverage by Dwenger. .  2 drives stalled because we could not go 90+ yards. The reason we had to 90+ multiple times was Valpo’s punter unbelievable.  The score had nothing to do with the penalties or lack there of   Very well called game  

I believe if the game is played 10 times, it is 5-5.  Congrats to Valpo.  

One thought about the New Pal and Valpo game ithe Valpo D will not wear down against New Pal.  The line on both sides is enormous and they seem to be in very good shape.        I also don’t believe  New Pal has as many skill players as Dwenger but the New Pal  line will give New Pal enough time to make short passing plays which will be turned into large gains.   The Valpo secondary is the Achilles heal of that Valpo D.  The line will also open up much larger holes for Spiegal than Dwengers line did for its backs    

I also think Maxen Hook can absolutely eat up the DBs from Valpo if they decide to throw to him.  He is 6 2 and whatever his weight is, he plays bigger.  He is plenty fast enough.  With that combo, he will be a pain for Valpo DBs to bring down.  This could allow for Spegal to start running down hill and score enough times to beat Valpo 28-7.   Having said that, .   What could also happen is Valpo moves the ball much like Cathedral did early on.  If Valpo actually converts a few firsts downs they will control the clock and  if that happens, I will say Valpo wins 28-21.  Valpo won’t fumble the Ball and after last week won’t be passing down field as much. 

My prediction officially will be  Valpo 28 New Pal 21

1 hour ago, BTF said:

More times than not, it was the illegal holding that allowed the RB to get to the endzone in the first place. Congrats to Valpo, they put more points on the board. But Dwenger may have showed tonight that they may have the best D in the state. Before tonight, Valpo's lowest scoring output was 29. 

You got that right.  Every single run around the end could have been flagged.  

For some inexplicable reason, BD started the first two drives with the 3rd and 4th string running backs. By the time we actually decided that strategy won’t work against a team of Valpo’s caliber, we were down 10-0 and wasted  the first quarter.  But at the end of the day, we just came up a couple plays short.  Valpo scored on the first drive of the game against our first string D and were able to squeeze a FG in later.   Valpo is an awesome team and very deserving to be going to LOS.  Congratulations.  

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

I’m talking about the visiting team that loses to Valpo.  It is going to be a long sad 2 hour bus ride all the way back to the Summit City.  The next week at school his girlfriend is going to dump him for a Luers player.

Tom, you need to lighten up a bit.   I had a good quality response obviously meant to be humorous.   No need to project your own  personal demons on to others.  

I hope the game is a clean, hard fought, injury free game.  I want Bishop Dwenger to win. I know most people don’t think they stand a chance, I happen to disagree and believe it’s worth the Saints while to make the 2 hour drive to prove they have what it takes to play in Lucas Oil Stadium.  

Let the teams take the field and leave it all out there.   This time of the year and Semi State is High School football at its finest.  

Go SAINTS!!!

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Valparaiso High School is a tough place to have your senior end their high school playing career. Had to experience and witness it throughout several periods of my lifetime.  Worst part is when the team walks out of the game and has to march across the VHS parking lot to the bus and their cleats make that sound on the asphalt.  I’ll spare all the other details. 

Why would Valpo be taking a bus to the game?  

I believe the Mercy rule goes away once the Regionals hit.  At least that is what an official told me this past week end.  

4 hours ago, FWfootball10 said:

If that’s true it’s gonna be extremely tough to beat Valpo. That’s arguably their 3 best players out for the biggest game of the year. 

 

Speed wise Valpo is nothing dwenger hasn’t seen. As far as size goes I think they will surely be the biggest team Dwenger has played all year. 

Let me clarify that.  Preparing as if they will be playing limited or no Offense but will play on Defense.  

Having said that, I just talked to the same guy  who told me that.   

He knows one of the 2 player’s dad in question  and he said that at least one was going to be a go and back to 100%. Take it for what it’s worth but he knows him pretty well    Who knows?!!

Separate topic, I believe Snider’s O Line would be comparable to Valpo in size.  

1 hour ago, Mebuck said:

Just to clarify, I am not saying Dwenger will start rotating players, I ment that as in past games.. I think it will be a hell of a game. All I heard Friday from other BD fans is how Dwenger can't win against Valpo. We should have beaten Homestead, we beat Carroll and Snider. We have seen speed and Power before.

I was told Dwenger is going to prepare as if they won’t have Finley and Tippmann.   We will need them but what can you do if they aren’t available. 

What does anyone know about Valpo?

My read is they have a  big offensive  line and running backs?  They will pass but it is definitely secondary to the run.   They are an efficient  passing team when they do.  

On D, big strong front 7.  What kind of speed do they bring to the table on Both sides of the ball?  

6 hours ago, FWfootball10 said:

Do you know the injury situation? I didn’t notice Finley or Devon tippmann play in the second half at all. You’re right I don’t know why they wouldn’t move it to Saturday for people that work until 5. They did that against Lowell years back but I don’t remember them doing it since.

Massive crowd, great environment, freezing. Can’t help but think John Goodman would’ve been running wild at state while Lowell went down there with the run run run mentality that didn’t work against a good reitz team.

I am hoping they both can play next week. That might be a tough game to pull off if those two are not playing.  Does anyone know or have an update? 

As far as game time, Valpo is on Central time if I’m not mistaken.  This allows for leaving a little bit later or if you can’t get off work until 5, you can still arrive on time.