OldschoolFB

On 7/27/2019 at 6:51 PM, slice60 said:

Fair enough. For the record, you played the 'Socialist' card.

***

I believe that something like the Success Factor Rule was instituted for competitive balance, not to "punish" successful teams.  That's my belief, I know that you & many others disagree & won't be convinced otherwise.

Hey, here's an interesting statement which will surely royally piss you off -- I maintain that FW Bishop Dwenger may not have won the 4A State Championship in 2015 & 2018 without the Success Factor Rule. Using your own words, the IHSAA punished the successful teams listed below & let Dwenger win 2 State titles.

Look at the competition that the IHSAA bumped up out of 4A in those years:

New Pal -- bumped up to 5A for 2015-18.

Cathedral - bumped up to 5A in 2013-14, up to 6A in 2015-16, down to 5A in 2017-18.

Col East - bumped up to 5A in 2015-18 (unlike New Pal & Cathedral, they probably jumped up into 5A by enrollment in those years anyway)  

In 2015, New Pal was 5A runner-up to FW Snider in the 64-61 shootout. (Granted, Dwenger beat Snider 20-17 in week 8.) Cathedral won a 6A Sectional.

In 2018, undefeated New Pal won the 5A State title with the closest game being 29-17 at Zionsville. Col East won a 5A regional.

They may not have won State in those 2 years.   You never know though and that’s one more reason the success factor isn’t for me.  If you knock off a team like Cathedral or New Pal  to win the State Championship, then you earned it and that’s the way it should be.

Good effort on trying to make me mad though.  

Let’s do a 180 here.  My intention was not to bring politics into the board.  I just don’t like rules that in my opinion punish successful teams for the sake of letting as many teams win as possible.  That’s all.  

3 hours ago, jakone said:

Luers at #10 are you serious?

 It in any particular order.  Just excited about the season and posted a few strength for each team.  My finishing order would be:

1.   Bishop Dwenger

2. Snider

3.  Homestead

4.   Concordia

5. Carroll

6. North Side

7.  Luers

8.   Wayne

9.  Northrop

10.  South Side

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

Hard to bump a Mega School up to 7A.

So you just let them play and whoever is the best team is crowned the State Champion?   Oh my gosh, what a concept?   We should allow that same concept for the other class levels. 

On 7/22/2019 at 4:50 PM, slice60 said:

You guys are right-- the Success Factor system is not a perfect system.

Maybe it should be longer than a 2-year window. However, if you change it to 4 years. a school might win 3 or 4 titles with a "golden generation" before they get bumped up. And then that next group of kids has to play in a higher class for the next 4 years. So the same critics of the 2-year window would criticize the 4-year window for mucking up the entire HS career for some kids.

You're right. Winning 2 back-to-back Sectionals isn't the definition of "dominance". But it is the definition of "being competitive".

Looking at the big picture (& not just at whether your school is playing up or not)-- If a program is so Dominant in Cycle #1 that they earned enough Points (6 or more) to get bumped up & then they were Competitive enough in Cycle #2 to earn enough Points (2, 3, 4 or 5) to remain in that higher class, it makes sense to me to keep that program up in the higher Competitive class instead of dropping them into the lower Dominant Class.

Social Security is a Socialist rule.

Medicare/Medicare/VA healthcare are all Socialist.

Public Libraries are Socialist.

Highways, Roads & Bridges are Socialist.

Farm Subsidies are Socialist.

Public Education is Socialist.

I have to admit,   I am shocked  you took the argument in this direction but at least we now know you don’t have any issues with the rule being socialist or socialism in general.  If we apply socialist principles to IHSAA football(or anything) we will soon not have IHSAA football.  

SAC should be interesting this year.  

1.  Snider has added a couple  basketball players that look pretty darn good. 

2.  Homestead has a number of good WR and a QB that could play D1 if he chose FB over hoops. 

3.  Bishop Dwenger has a lot of experience returning and a new stadium and should be deeper than they have been in years. 

4. North side has been getting better and better since their current coach has come aboard and the Jr QB is a 2 year starter and can make plays. 

5.  Concordia has a few WR and a RB that are returning and a QB that performed very well when called on last year. 

6.  Carroll has experience on both sides returning and seem to always find a very good QB every year. 

7.  Wayne seems to ha e reloaded at a number of spots and the players seem to love playing for their coach. 

8. SouthSide is always very athletic. 

9.  Northrop always has playmakers and can score points with athletes.  

10.  Bishop Luers will always be a tough team that will fight you with everything they have.  They return a couple young playmakers and linemen and should get better and better each week.  

Somebody has to win every year and the team who wins should not be punished. No matter what the system is, there will be a few teams that rises to the top and everyone will want that team pushed out so their own team can win.  These rules have never been about fairness   They are about “my team winning instead of yours”  

Some school are football school.  Some are baseball. Some are basketball.  Somebody has to win.  That’s just the way life is.   Having said that,   A 1 class level bump is reasonable but that should be the maximum bump.  

What I find strange is nobody seems to care that the same 4 teams win the 6A class level every year. Being great is only allowable if you are in 6A?. Or maybe it’s because the schools complaining about the success of others dont have to worry about moving to 6A yet so “fairness” in 6 A is not a concern to them right now. (Which proves they don’t really care about fairness to begin with). 

1 hour ago, Mebuck said:

Luers is losing all the returners to Wayne. Homestead will be stacked. All skilled positions are returning.  Plus the WR is back from his knee injury. 

I have Dwenger at #2 cause they will be without a few starters for the first three games. Could start 1-2.

I asked a few people l know about that who are connected to program and they all said they did not think Dwenger is losing anyone to start the season.  I’m not saying it’s not true but as it stands now, they will be at full strength.  

Latest photo update on BD Stadium.  

If I go completely from memory, I believe Snider returns a QB, WR, 2 LB, 1 CB.  

Not sure on OL and DL.  At least 1 on DL and at least 1 on OL.  

I hadn't heard that.  That could make for a strange start to season. I guess we will find out opening night.  Could be an opportunity to build depth.   

Wayne and North Side will be much improved this year.  You can never tell what kind of team South will bring.  And after that, all the teams will have talent.  If BD stays healthy and remains focused, they can and should have another special season.  Mebuck what are you hearing about who will be lining up for the Saints to replace the Senior players who graduated?

I am of the opinion Snider received a bad deal here.  2 Sectional wins and that’s considered dominating?   This means they are in the top 25% of 6A......Whoooaaaa!!!!! Stop the press!!!

I think TSF was/is an over reaction won a couple schools winning 3 or 4 in a row a few years back   

1.  Competing for 2 years isn’t dominating anything.  All it does is punish the classes that typically follow the great ones.  It’s comparable to an NCAA team being put on probation.  The people that caused it don’t have the face the consequences.  In our system, the great teams never played up, just the ones who follow.  

2.  It should be a 4 year window.

3.  Winning the Sectional isn’t domination. If it is dominating anything.  It essentially is keeping all of the State’s stories programs in higher levels as long as they can where all the hard work that they put goes unrewarded.   

4.  All stories programs around the State are victims of TSF with the exception of the Indianapolis schools.  The same few schools win every single year.  Shouldn’t 6A teams have to sit out for two years?  Or form a Super Class with 8 teams based on the TSF?  Or does it only anger the powers that be when non Indy schools win a lot? And Indy kids can play wherever they want as long as the system is worked properly.

5.   All schools should have a one class bump maximum and the success factor should also bump some schools down based on participation and historical performance.  

6.  Somebody has to win, it’s ok when it’s kids who have worked hard their entire lives.  

7.  This is a Socialist rule. 

 This is the best I could get.  It’s closer than it looks.  

On 3/31/2019 at 7:31 PM, CaptainHook said:

New Pal has several big holes to fill at QB, center, and LB.  The do return 3 starting OL, 3 WR, 2 DL, 1 LB, their entire secondary, and 1 RB.

What does Snider/Dwenger have returning?

Snider is always good and have added a couple athletic basketball players to the mix.  They should help make them more athletic at the very least.   But it sounds like they are 6A now anyway.  

Bishop Dwenger loses  a 6 7 315 lb RT to Wisconsin,  also lose Center, Guard, TE and the running back who scored the game winner in State who arguably was the heart and soul of team.  

On D they lose, SS, CB, THREE very good LBs and one DL. 

Also lose PK and Punter and Long Snapper

Returning are 2 WR( 1 2 year and 1 converted QB) QB, RB(leading rusher)LT and Guard and on D 1 LB(Jr All State)2 DL 1 Corner and FS. An incoming Slot WR should help too.  There was a player injured last year that you could say is a returning starter but don’t know where  he will play.  

That is quite a few holes to fill.  We will see how they do.  On paper, they have the people to step in, but until proven on the field, you just can’t tell.   

I don’t know how the new alignment will shake out as far as Sectional draws but getting to 5A State game will still be a challenge for all teams.  New Pal, however, and a few others will be a very tough team to beat.  

If Cathedral moves back to 5 A as it seems they will, provided  the North South alignment for Sectionals remains the same for New Pal, and I was forced to make a prediction for best 3 from N and S, it would be:  Bishop Dwenger, Michigan City and Mishawaka up north and Cathedral, Decatur Central and New Pal in the south.  (Listed Alohabetically)