BTF

He's got them losing to Warren Central and Carroll. Valid.

7-2 would be a successful season in my opinion. They could go 6-3 or 9-0. The only thing that would utterly shock me would be not winning 6 regular season games. One never knows in the SAC. If Homestead and Dwenger trend up this year, anything can happen.

Defense wins championships Temp.

I think you killed the thread Rodney. I guess you make too much sense.

Zero sum game. You have a winner and a loser.

Student A is next man up. Student B transfers in from another school and takes Student A's position. Does Student A: a) Be a good teammate, accept his status as 2nd string, and help his team get better. b) Tell his coach to "go pound sand" and look for other opportunities. The obvious answer in my opinion is b. Leave your program and let them worry about the issue of "depth."

Elkhart already boasts 3000+ students. Add recruiting to the equation and this program could be dangerous with an average coach. It won't even take a great coach. Did I hear this is happening at schools like Warren Central? Someone please riddle me how Northrop, Harrison, Columbus North, Portage, and Jeffersonville are suppose to compete with this.

Having great coaches, feeder systems, and a culture for the sport absolutely matters. But so does enrollment, here's why: From 1980-2016, unless you can prove me otherwise, Carmel, Ben Davis, Warren Central, North Central, and Penn were the five largest schools in the state. During that time period, state championships in the biggest school division are as follows: Warren Central (9), Ben Davis (8),Carmel (7), and Penn (5). That's 29 state championships in 37 years. Four of the top five enrollment schools ranked 1, 2, 3, & 4 in number of state titles. You really think there's no correlation between enrollments and championships? The other eight championships were spread out among six other schools. Center Grove (2), Bloomington South (2), Snider (1), Castle (1), Lawrence Central (1), and Fishers (1). Still coincidence? You can't win without a good coach and a good culture, no one is arguing that. The argument is simply this: Large enrollment numbers makes it a hell of a lot easier.

Zionsville appears to be number on currently. It's been a few years since I've researched this.

I retract that statement. I just never heard of them before the mid-2000's, when they started playing 5A ball. They were a 3A/4A school back then? I just researched it, it looks like they have an impressive win/loss record historically. Not so much success with deep tournament runs outside of a couple of years. I'm guessing that the Anderson, Fishers, Noblesville area just wasn't overall that good before the growth of the suburbs.

Per your sources, NC did sneak in there a couple times ahead of Warren Central. But it's also showing Penn and the fifth largest historically. They just happen to rank 4th in state tittles furthering my point. Fishers and Hamilton Southeastern are now Top 10 and are seem to be in the state title conversation in recent years. Fishers is brand new, but HSE was a "guaranteed" game until the growth explosion in their community. I think the evidence is right there in front of us if we look. I'm not downplaying what coaches have done at those large enrollment schools. You still have to be good at what you do in order to take a state title. I'm just saying it's a lot easier with 3500+ than it is with 2000.

Absolutely, always good stuff. To be fair though, I've never said that enrollment was the end all be all, just a very strong component. You have have to have an administration that's on board with building a football team. And the head coach has to have passion. All things being equal, higher enrollment gives Team A an advantage over Team B is all I'm saying. It's human nature to want to be considered better than others based on hard work alone and not a built in advantage. Kind of like when a man touts that he's "self made", lol. I think that's why some people have a hard time saying, "yeah, we do have an advantage." You naturally want people to think you're successful because you're smarter and work harder. Nick Saban will never say "the reason I have so many championships is due in part because I have better athletes than my competitors." He'll never say that. Just like Belichick will never say, "Tom Brady" was an enormous factor with regard to my success as a head coach. Here's another example. Carmel, BD, and WC are top three or top four depending on the year and have 34 titles between them. Teams ranked 14, 15, and 16 in terms of enrollment won't have 34 titles over the next two centuries. Yet said three teams did it over the course of four decades.

To be clear. I'm perfectly okay with a coach being that "guiding light" without pouring his life into it. Many coaches have a family to go home to and kids to raise.

Agree, that game should have been over.

Isn't that what happens 75% of the time? They just remind me of Homestead in that they seem to have a level they can't seem to reach over.

Could start a new thread on this topic. How many current coaches are doing this just for the enjoyment and the "positive light" on kids and with no intention of spilling their entire life into building a state championship team.........which is pretty much what it takes.

Correct about Homestead's quarterback, he's supposed to be pretty good. I'm not surprised as the Spartan's have a history of producing some good QB's. Homestead went through their "barely mediocre" stage the last couple of seasons. This could be the year they pull out of it. The Duneland will see one SAC team. Homestead is heading south like normal. Odds of them getting out of that sectional isn't very good. Snider and Carroll, who both look to be good, are in the same sectional. One will take the other out, leaving one SAC team for the regionals (unless it's Elkhart).

Not going to hold my breath with Mallory. In eleven seasons, seven wins seems to be his plateau. But again. I'll defer to the Indy experts. Without documentation to back me up, I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. They've always been the largest schools.

I don't think I've ever felt for a program 120 miles away like I did for Brownsburg last year. I felt like they were the best team in the state, but unfortunately couldn't seal the deal. I can only imagine that propelled the underclassmen to work their butts off in in the off season. It will be interesting to see how they respond. If they drop 50 on Dwenger again by halftime in Week 1, they'll launch into my favorite to take state. John Hebert's had some mediocre seasons before, only to follow it up with a state title. I'm expecting a win in Week 1 against Homestead, per usual. Week 2 will tell us whether or not they are a contender.

5A is certainly more interesting when Cathedral isn't there. If they were to ever drop down, it would be nice to see them square off with Snider, New Pal, or East Central when those programs are on an uptick. I like the direction Decatur Central is going in, very good coach.

Back on topic: Center Grove, Ben Davis, Warren Central, and Carmel will always be at the top of the food chain in 6A. So any sane person would pick one of those to win it all historically speaking. One might insert Brownsburg for Carmel in the current state of affairs. What makes 6A interesting is who's going to win a championship outside of the Big 4. As far as the south is concerned, it's going to be one of those four, period. If there's a contender outside of that field, I'll defer to someone from that region for that reference. My pick for 6A south is going to be Center Grove. The north is far more interesting in my opinion. No one has it on lock down. The south has a pool four, the north has a pool of nine. It's anyone's ball game. In the true north, you have to give consideration to Crown Point, Carroll, Penn, Snider, and even Elkhart (if you're buying into the hype.) Then throw the Northern Indy teams in and you've got Fishers, HSE, Westfield, and Carmel. Anyone who falls asleep on Noblesville or Homestead could be in for a surprise. Although I have high hopes for both Snider and Carroll this year, I'm going to roll with Craig Buzea in his fourth year Crown Point. They've gotten better in each of his first three seasons. If they get better in the fourth, the south's reign on the title could be in jeopardy. I'll take Crown Point over HSE for the semi-state championship. Gimmie Center Grove over Crown Point for the title.

Lol, there's my answer.

Good post. Good to see you discussing football. How come you removed me from the Out of Bounds Club?

True or False: An average coach at school with an enrollment of 4000 will beat a great coach at a school of 2000 enrollment 50% of the time.

Yes. I think I've stated this 49 times now...................geeesh.