Footballking16

You’d be better off at North Central. Don’t let the fact that they have a large FRL % fool you, NC has one of the best theater and drama programs in the state. And it’s free!

Clearly

Lol. Yet you still can’t explain why 6 of the 10 largest high schools in the state (and 3 of those with <20% FRL) have average to terrible football programs, despite meeting the two metrics (mega-enrollment/SES) that are impossible to overcome. It’s no surprise you continue to dance around and talk in circles, because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Lol. I grew up in Washington Twp and live in Fishers today, both schools in the same metropolis with 3000+ kids who don’t have good football programs. There’s about 400-450 kids who apply to Cathedral a year from the same metropolis that have the same ability to go to HSE or North Central as they please. Not sure what that comment has to do with anything?

Correct. All three reasons you’ve listed ascribe lack of coaching/culture/commitment to a T.

I was looking at Lake Station FRL %, my mistake, which is extremely high. Lake Central has an enrollment and SES similar to that of the Hamilton Co HCC schools. They don't have a good football program which furthers my point that enrollment and SES don't mean a thing. Again, has worked out well for Pike and North Central over the years. How is it that 3 schools within a 20 miles radius (North Central/Pike/Warren) with similar enrollments and SES can be be on such opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to football success. Surely has nothing to do with coaching/culture/commitment, right? They aren't. I've given you half a dozen examples of why that simply isn't true. You have no rebuttal. Show me a successful program who doesn't have a combination of strong coaching/culture/commitment. Those are the most important factors. Clearly. What does me attending Cathedral over 15 years ago have anything to do with this? I haven't mentioned Cathedral once.

Good analysis. Appreciate it. @temptationwill spin this in a way that shows a low SES can be overcome by a mega-enrollment only to sit on his hands and not be able to explain the decades long struggles of North Central, Pike, and Lake Central who have SES similar to Warren and Ben Davis as well enrollment. Rinse, wash, repeat.

Well duh they're still "good programs" when compared to the other 350 some playing football programs in this state. Not sure that makes it some kind of accomplishment, especially considering they have mega-enrollments and/or very high socioeconomic demographics, the two metrics you claim no program can overcome regardless of how untrue that statement may be. So clearly high enrollment and SES aren't the only two metrics impossible to overcome? Glad we got that out of the way There's 3500 kids at Pike and 3700 kids at North Central. I don't care who is moving where, that isn't a crutch. Isn't it coincidental that once North Central hired a proven coach and made a commitment to its football program you started to see results? Shocking I know. Nearly happened last time they tried it, Streiff just didn't stick around long enough even though NC was on their way.

Tradition I would lump into culture, but I have maintained the three most important aspects to sustaining a successful program is coaching, culture, and commitment. Warren Central has all three of those factors, cannot say the same for Pike even though they share similar enrollments and socioeconomic demographics.

North Central Pike Lake Central Noblesville HSE Fishers All schools with either mega-enrollments or high socioeconomic demographics and in some cases both. All have average to terrible football programs despite possessing the two metrics you deem impossible to overcome. You're talking in circles and looking more and more ridiculous with each passing post. What is the difference between Pike and Warren Cenntral. And don't you dare tell me 200 students.

LOL. How much did it pain you to say commitment/culture plays a much bigger factor than what you are giving credit? How can Lake Central field a non-competitive football team but has a championship caliber baseball program?

What top 5 club was Center Grove in for any of their state championships?

You act like Fishers has grown by 1500 students in the last 5 years. They haven't. They've always been one of the larger biggest class schools even since their split. Fishers isn't magically going to become a better football school because they add a couple hundred more students a year. Noblesville has been growing every year and doesn't have a winning season since 2001.

Now explain Noblesville.

They were 3-8 last year with a Top 5 enrollment. Is it now suddenly going to change?

That is simply not true. HSE (as one high school) was a mega enrollement school and Noblesville for the last 15 years has always been one of the largest HCC schools. It certainly was bigger than Avon, Brownsburg, Westfield, Zionsville, and the Lafayette Schools when they were members. That's an arbitrary and really an irrelevant statement. Can a school with 3000+ kids not produce a D1 caliber QB? Why hasn't Carmel and their 5400 kids not produced a D1 QB since Morgan Newton?

Who is the last D1 caliber QB to come from Carmel High School?

At what point does the number of students become redundant in terms of fielding a competitive football team in your opinion? 1000, 2000, 2500, 3000? Once you cross a certain threshold of students, I believe the enrollment figure becomes irrelevant. Carmel isn't better than Noblesville because they have 5400 students and Noblesville only has 3100 students. Hell Columbus East is better than Noblesville and they only have 1500 students. At that point it has everything to do, how you said, with utilizing your resources. Does Noblesville have a good feeder program? Does Noblesville have an A+ coaching staff? Is the school corporation committed to winning? Is there a big community support/follow? It's the latter sentiments that form the DNA of a successful football program. Once you hit X amount of students it really doesn't matter.

What advantage is it to North Central, Fishers, HSE, Pike, Lake Central, Noblesville i.e six of the ten largest high schools in the state? Fishers, HSE, and Noblesville are the three largest schools in the HCC and arguably the three worst football schools in the conference. I want to know where this higher enrollment advantage comes into play? Or is it the socioeconomic factor? You tell me.

I agree with you, but it's stupid (as well as lazy) to write off a school because they are at an enrollment disadvantage (comparatively) or have a low socioeconomic demographic. You have two posters on here who live and die by that sword but can't offer an explanation as to why their narrative just doesn't fit.

Advantage over who? No I'm not going to say that schools like Noblesville, HSE, Fishers, Lake Central, etc have an advantage over a school like Center Grove despite having 1000+ more students. Would be ridiculous and untrue. Why can't schools like Noblesville, HSE, and Fishers consistently field good football teams despite having mega-enrollments and some of the highest socioeconomic demographics in the state?

Who said anything about turning Gary West into a football power? It is however mind-numbingly dumb to insinuate that having success is only attributed to high enrollment and high socioeconomic demographics. I've provided examples on both ends of the spectrum as to why that isn't the case and in a few examples had both high enrollment and high socioeconomic that contradict your agenda. You look at any program in the state of Indiana that has had sustained success over the years, culture, coaching, and commitment are the common themes. Most have at least two, some all three. You taking the absolute most extreme examples outliers in each scenario to try and prove a point isn't helping your cause.

Also, Washington Township is the middle township on the North Side of Indy, hence North + Central. When North Central opened in the 50's many students came from outside the city limits and started to cut into the enrollments of Broad Ripple and Shortridge.

BuT WhAt ABoUt SoCIeoEcONomiC DEmOGrApHIcS?

They have 2 state titles since 2014 and have been to semi-state 3 other times in said timeframe. They’re doing just fine.