Footballking16

Starts early third quarter, Cathedral had 4 thrown on them in about 7 or 8 plays, 3 consecutively. First one starts with Cathedral punting early in the third quarter. A Center Grove player takes out the Cathedral LS 30 yards downfield, pancakes him, and lays on him till the end of the whistle. A second Cathedral player comes to help him up as the Center Grover player is simultaneously getting up. They bump shoulders. I don't know why I was watching at that juncture (fair catch maybe?) but I saw the ref fumble in his waistband for the flag and thought, "there is no way he is calling that a late hit". Sure enough he did and just thought to myself that is the softest sh*t I have even seen in a football game. Cathedral later goes on to get called for 3 consecutive dead ball personal fouls on the ensuing Center Grove drive.

That's the issue though, a personal foul unnecessary roughness is a subjective call made at the discretion of the referee. It's a judgement call. There's no right or wrong answer. That's why I thought the majority of them I thought were excessive. They weren't warranted. I've seen much worse go unflagged. Nearly 15 flagged personal fouls between the two teams that resulted in ZERO ejections, skirmishes, etc is excessive. The refs only escalated the situation.

It’s not just the sheer number that makes it excessive. It’s the quality or lack thereof I had an issue with. Calling unnecessary roughness after two guys shoulder each as they’re walking back to the huddle a half second after the whistle blows is excessive regardless if it’s called one time or a hundred times.

100% agree. Respect 99.9% of what Bob has posted over the years, but then takes these kind of stances that lay people in the stands can't have an opinion or there's no way an officiating crew got it wrong. Like I said in my initial post, I didn't take issue with the live ball penalties and thought they called a clean game for the most part. But the personal fouls were extremely egregious and I thought they were excessive.

Bob, Made a simple observation that the crew was flag happy. I though there was an excessive amount of penalties (especially personal fouls) called on both teams. If you're going to call a personal foul for unnecessary roughness because there's contact after the whistle, then it needs to be thrown on every play. I thought all but one or two were extremely ticky tack and soft in nature. It's football. I don't think this officiating crew had their best night and really let the game get to them.

Then you could literally throw a flag for unnecessary roughness after every play. 11 personal fouls for ticky tack stuff is excessive. I was there, you weren't and it was excessive in nature and I think fans from both teams would agree.

A lot of flags Bob. We aren't talking missed holding calls or anything like that, just thought it was a flag happy crew. 11 personal fouls against Cathedral alone in a game that wasn't even all that chippy is a bit excessive, in my opinion.

Has double standard for BD is hypocritical. Never gave Coach K his due under the grounds of, “anyone can win at BD with their numbers and talent”, yet is constantly looking for and suggesting BD’s replacement. He doesn’t get it, never will.

It’s that Jackson-Davis brother I assume? Tayven plays basketball as well right?

General consensus was there was more concern about the upcoming basketball season so take that for what it’s worth. He’s an exceptional 3 sport athlete who also stars for the baseball team?

Bright future for CG. Was shocked at how many non-seniors were starting and contributing. Defense was very good. Cathedral O had been humming all year and outside 2 big plays were really limited. Thanks for the kudos and good luck to the Trojans the rest of the way. On a side note, pretty disheartening to see Cam Jordan in a boot last night. Murmur in the crowd wasn’t good on prognosis. Offense looked anemic and somewhat predictable at times without his big play ability to stretch the field.

I agree with this. It wasn’t bad officiating by any means, in terms of miscalled, just excessive. I counted 11 dead ball personal foul penalties against Cathedral and thought maybe 2 were warranted. These games are always physical but I thought the refs put their foot down way too early and often. I think Cathedral had 3 consecutive personal fouls called against them on CG’s opening drive in the 2nd half.

Flag filled game. 20 penalties between the two teams and well over 200 yards in penalties.

Cathedral 14 Center Grove 9 Final

I’m also guessing that’s 9-12 correct? 48 in the whole program, freshman dress varsity?

Look at Sagarin. Obviously there are outliers (and that's why the success factor exists) but there's a reason why the large majority of the teams rated at the top of Sagarin are the largest enrollment schools and a reason why the large majority of the teams rated at the bottom of Sagarin are the smallest enrollment schools, and it's because NUMBERS MATTER. Yes you'll see outliers like Chatard, Cathedral, Brebeuf, etc at the top punching above their weight, just like you'll see some 4A schools like Frankfort or Shelbyville near the bottom, but if you scan the ratings from 1-320, you'll notice on average it's accurately reflected based on enrollment.

You can only bring X amount of players to the sidelines for a tournament game (or at least that was the rule 10 or so years ago when I played), and that number was 75. While Chatard can bring 75 to the sidelines, they're only picking from a pool 350 boys. Whereas, say a school like Carmel can bring 75 to the table but they're choosing from 2,000 boys, and Chatard punches above their weight every year and are still at a huge disadvantage. Now do this with a school like South Adams whom I'm willing to bet doesn't even have 75 boys in their entire program to begin with, expecting them to go up against a school like Penn who could field 2 varsity teams if they wanted too. How in the hell do you not see the difference there? South Adams should have to play in a tournament with a team like Penn because they're better than a team like Springs Valley? This is the single dumbest argument on the GID.

Has South Adams ever been bumped up due to the success factor? If South Adams can't get bumped from 1A under the current format, how in the hell do you expect/think it's fair they compete in a tournament with the likes of Penn, Noblesville, and Southport?

To be fair to Muda....he's been crowing about this awful format for years.

I already answered your question. Cathedral is an OUTLIER. That's why they are playing up a class. Just because Cathedral (an outlier) can punch above their weight, doesn't mean every other team can. That's why the success factor exists. I can't dumb this down anymore.

More or less, yes. Who would support that? That's watering down the postseason. It's dull and unexciting. Yes the the Gold and Silver and maybe Bronze (for practical purposes) would be good tournaments but the overall interest in high school football from a fan and even more importantly a player perspective would significantly decrease. Yes I've been very vocal in that regard. Go to a rating system that effectively cuts the field in half at the end of the regular season.

yes When you have a tournament with the worst 64 teams in the state and one is ultimately crowned a state champion, your postseason is watered down To an extent, but not nearly enough to game the system. I will assure you private schools aren't capping their enrollments to stay in a lower class for athletic purposes.

I totally get that. But you're going to kill off the rooting interest of Indiana high school doing it this way. You're going to be crowing 2-3 state champions a year who have no business being in a postseason tournament to begin with and you're going to completely water down the level of play and excitement. Teams like Dwenger and Chatard are usually good enough to be in the top 32 of Sagarin and would play in the best tournament, but they would have no virtual shot of winning a title due to numbers. It's not fair to either of those successful schools. Classifications are based on enrollment for a reason. Obviously there are some teams who are vastly better than others of similar size, and the ones that are get promoted to the next level. It's the fairest and most practical way to keep competitive balance alive.

Because that isn't right for South Adams or any school for that matter. The goal of any postseason tournament is to crown the best team. Making a tournament for the 64 worst teams in the state where one inevitably is going to be crowned a state champion while a successful team like South Adams has to play against schools 10x their enrollment ain't right. How hard is that to comprehend?

Correct. There should never be a tournament where a successful school like South Adams has to play against a school like Penn, which would be the case this year if the tournament was based on Sagarin rating and not enrollment. If South Adams become too successful, they should be promoted to the next flight of competition playing against with 500-600 kids. Good thing we already have this and it is known as the success factor. They absolutely could beat Jeffersonville, but that doesn't mean Brownstown should have to play in a tournament with schools like Dwenger, New Pal, and Cathedral simply because they're better than Jeffersonville.