Footballking16

And you think pitting teams with an enrollment differential by 2-3k students is the answer to competitive balance? You're nuts.

That is what I'm getting at, unless at the end of the regular season you put the top 32 Sagarin teams in the top flight, the next top 32 teams in a second flight and so on and so on. If you did it that way you would potentially have a team like Adams Central with an enrollment of ~380 playing against a team like Penn with an enrollment of ~3500. It's nonsense.

Based off what? The prior season success? So if School A with an enrollment of 350 kids has an exceptional senior class that makes it to the state finals and finishes the year rated 68th in Sagarin they could potentially play in a tournament with a school that has 3500 kids the next year? Without the senior class that got them there in the first place? Yeah, good luck.

I know how promotion and relegation works. Unlike professional sports, high schools aren't allocated funds to buy and sell players at the conclusion of each season. What is your proposal?? How do you initially classify teams outside current enrollment? For someone who has been preaching promotion and relegation for several years, you don't seem to have any kind of contingency plan or any idea how it works.

How do you regulate that is what I'm asking? So if you don't win your sectional you move down a class? 1 of Avon/Brownsburg isn't going to win their sectional. You telling me the loser of that game moves down to 5A? 3 of Guerin/Chatard/West Lafayette/Brebuef isn't going to win their sectional. You telling me those 3 teams now move down to 2A? That's how promotion/regulation works? That fixes competitive balance? Pass me what you're having.

Look at comparable scenarios? It’s all about SOS and opponent SOS. Cathedral is ALWAYS a top 5-10 Sagarin rated team because of their schedule. They were 4-5 heading into the postseason last year and still a top 5 Sagarin rated team. This years 3-5 Roncalli team is rated 17th in Sagarin and they’re nowhere near as good as the 02 team and haven’t played a tenth of the schedule the 02 team played. Luers at 2-6 is rated 15th in 2A and it’s all because they play teams outside their class.

They still played by far and away the toughest schedule in 4A. Cathedral was 4-5 going into the postseason last year and still was a top 5 Sagarin rated team the entire year. I would bet any amount of money that a 5-4 Roncalli team in 2002 that played CG, Franklin Central, Chatard, and Cincy Elder was rated in the top half in 4A in Sagarinand would even go so far to say they were top 10. Heck this years Roncalli team who started 0-4 (currently 3-5) is ranked 17th in 4A Sagarin and hasn’t played near the schedule the 02 team played.

In a rating system that accounted for SOS, opponent SOS, W-L record, and opponent W-L most definitely. I’ve seen Cathedral start 0-4, 1-3 on many occasions and they’re always still in the top 10 of Sagarin or Calpreps. Center Grove went 8-1 and reached SS Franklin Central went undefeated during the regular season and lost in the sectional finals. Chatard was an undefeated state champion And Elder was one of the best teams in the entire country and went 14-1 and won the D1 title in Ohio. In fact, the following year Elder was #1 in the country and got blown out by Warren and Desmond Tardy.

I can't speak to the exact year but would have to imagine that Roncalli would have been rated in the top half of 4A in any kind of analytic or advanced rating system even starting 0-4. That's why W-L record would never exclusively be the deciding or mitigating factor.

How do you go by regulating or enforcing that? There's only 8 sectional winners in each class. So the ~56 teams in 1A-4A who don't win their sectional get regulated? Where are you going to put all these teams?

An 8th grader that goes to one school for 8th grade and then attends a high school in a different district isn't considered a transfer. It's considered a "transfer" when a student currently enrolled in one high school, transfers to another high school. The IHSAA has no jurisdiction over open enrollment. It's a state legislation. DOE has ruled that anybody can choose the high school of their choice, so long they can provide transportation among other things.

Shouldn't be able too, but the IHSAA in a lot of cases (especially when you transfer back to your original district) tends to look the other way. There were a couple Trudeau brothers (father Jack former Colts player) who started out at Zionsville, transferred to Pike and then believe one of them transferred back to Zionsville. Don't think they had sit out a year.

The success factor offsets that lol. If you have success you're bumped up a class. The IHSAA isn't designed to crown a champion for the best 64 teams in the state and then a second champion for the next 64 best teams and so on and so on. It's designed to crown a champion for like sized schools. If you happen to have continued success, you're bumped up. Don't overthink this.

No it's not

But it completely disproves your argument that public schools play by the same rules. They don't. The multiplier doesn't combat competitive balance, the success factor does because it actually "punishes" the programs who are successful. There's no sense in upping Hammond Noll or Park Turdor's enrollment by 1.5 because Cathedral has a good football team. They aren't the same. The success factor already takes care of that. And the multiplier would cap enrollments. There is an argument that Cathedral should be playing in 6A every year and because of the success factor, it's already happened. That would never have been the case under a multiplier.

Exactly. I'm a frequent reader of Yappi over in Ohio and their site is like this the last 4 or 5 weeks. It just a much more exciting product because there is much more on the line when talking about the regular season. They think I'm nuts whenever I bring up the fact that Indiana has an all-in. Then I half have the heart to tell them it's not only an all-in, it's a blind draw. They can't get over it.

That's if the tournament started today. Remember under my proposal the regular season would be extended an additional week. Currently East and North sit 17th and 18th respectively in Calpreps. Very really chance they could still play their way in or move up if some teams lost in front of them. This is what I mean by adding real value to the regular season. These last 2 weeks for schools like East and North and then schools like Snider and Southport who are clinging on life support would be like playoff atmospheres. It enhances the regular season tenfold.

Don't worry, they actually have at least 2 more opportunities to get that elusive first win.

I just think it makes for a much stronger and more competitive tournament, especially in 6A. It's no secret that in most years the best teams in 6A are in Indy and because of the current format, you see de-facto state titles in the early rounds. Here is what 6A would like like under my proposed qualifier system if the tournament were to start tomorrow. (Using Calpreps to factor in out of state competition) Avon Brownsburg Fishers (*) Homestead (*) Lafayette Jeff (*) Westfield (*) North Central Carmel (*) HSE (*) Warren Ben Davis Center Grove Franklin Central Merrillville (*) Southport Snider (*) The 8 most Northern teams would make up the top half of the bracket (*). Matchup's would be North #8 Snider @ # 1Fishers #5 Carmel @ #4 Westfield #6 HSE @ #3 Lafayette Jefferson #7 Merrillville @ #2 Homestead South #8 Southport @ #1 Avon #5 Ben Davis @ #4 Warren #6 Center Grove @ #3 North Central #7 Franklin Central @ #2 Brownsburg I don't see how anyone could argue with those match-ups and the competitiveness throughout the entire tournament.

I wasn't around for it, but from my father and uncles who all played in that era, many deserving teams were left out. It ultimately crowned a champion just like the all-in but because good teams were left out it became a pretty watered down tournament similar to the blind draw where some of the best teams knock each other out in the first few rounds.

There's a huge gap between the old cluster system and today's all-in. The old cluster system only included a small percentage of schools and you had to win your cluster to get in and it left out many good and/or deserving teams. It would be like saying only the winner of the MIC made it to the playoffs even though in any given year there's 6 or 7 MIC teams that deserve to get in. If the IHSAA were to move to a qualifier today you would have to think inclusion would have to be at least 50% of an entire class and the qualification system would use a rating system, not W-L record. The IHSAA compounded and already bad system to an even worse system by going to the all-in, they went to the complete opposite end of the spectrum to appease the masses.

They weren't "transfers". They just exercised their right to open enrollment and decided to attend a public school outside their district.

I actually prefer something like CalPreps because it factors in out of state opponents (to my knowledge Sagarin does not). When you get to the bigger classes I don't think it's as big of a deal as you think. For 5A and 6A you really would only have a sectional final and a regional final which the highest seed would host. Semi-state would be a neutral site and and finals obviously in Indy. Looking at 6A this year, let's use CalPreps as it factors in out of state competition. If the tournament started tomorrow, these would be the 16 qualifies teams Avon Brownsburg Fishers (*) Homestead (*) Lafayette Jeff (*) Westfield (*) North Central Carmel (*) HSE (*) Warren Ben Davis Center Grove Franklin Central Merrillville (*) Southport Snider (*) The 8 most Northern teams would make up the top half of the bracket (*). Matchup's would be #8 Snider @ # 1Fishers #5 Carmel @ #4 Westfield #6 HSE @ #3 Lafayette Jefferson #7 Merrillville @ #2 Homestead I don't think overall travel in that scenario is too egregious and certainly makes for a much more exciting and competitive tournament.

One of the most high profile players in the history of Indiana played out of district. Hunter Johnson was an Avon kid who didn't want to play behind Brandon Peters at Avon so he went to Brownsburg. His brother was playing at Avon while he was playing at Brownsburg. I use this as an example because because he is the highest profile player to do so, but you're naive to the fullest extent if you don't think public school kids are jumping districts for athletic purposes.

? You just made an argument that public schools all play by the same rules without knowing there has been open enrollment in every Indiana school district for the last decade. How does that not change things? I will assure you that parents and students are choosing public schools from outside their current district for the sole purpose of athletics? How does that not level the playing field? Not every P/P is an athletic juggernaut and you would be penalizing schools that already struggle in their current classification. The success factor is suffice.