Footballking16

10 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

There is a huge difference between those two scenarios.  There are also kids who couldn't be described by either one.

• What about a kid whose family moves to a different location within the same city/county/area?
• What about a kid who doesn't move, but only transfers once or twice rather than 3 or 4 times?
• What about a kid who transfers multiples times -- but within the same school district?

In fact, I'd guess that a majority of transfers don't meet either of your scenarios.  What then?  Or are we supposed to keep the IHSAA policing all of it just because of kids who transfer 3 or 4 times?  Would you have them change the rule to accommodate 1 or 2 transfers question free?

It's obviously a case by case scenario.

A kid whose family lives in Carmel on the North Side of Indy that physically moves to say Greenwood or Whiteland should be eligible to play without any varsity restriction. This unfortunately isn't the common type of transfer though. 

A kid who lives in Fishers, attends Fishers for a year and then transfers to Noblesville 15 miles away is likely an arbitrary case. If both schools sign off on it, then the IHSAA shouldn't get involved as long as it is a one type deal. 

If you transfer a second time your varsity eligibility should be automatically rescinded for a year unless the transfer involves a physical address change that aligns with the school district the player's family is re-locating. 

The vast majority of transfers happening right now, at least in larger metropolitan areas, don't involve a physical address change however. Kid's are simply attending out of district schools and providing their own transportation. 

10 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Society today...."its all about me"  If the going gets tough, why stay and compete, when I can simply look for the path of least resistance.  That's beautiful.

Because meddling parents are always 100% right when it comes to understanding competitive sports.....especially the ones that didn't make it themselves and desire to live through their kids.....

Couldn't have said it better myself.

There's just nothing in me that would leave me to believe that an individual high school student would voluntarily wake up once a year and think, "hey I'm ready to transfer high schools.....again".

It's all influential. Some due influence from family or family members, but a lot from outside coaching...AAU coaches, individual trainers, handlers, etc.

It's becoming a black eye, 

2 minutes ago, Piratefan101 said:

We have gotten a few and lost some. Heck cathedral took our WR!

There's a huge difference between transferring schools due to a family physically moving to a new city and a player transferring between 3 and 4 local school districts. 

1 minute ago, Piratefan101 said:

You mean 1 year? Lol 😂 

and the best part is 2 of the 4 transferred in the January before the season they played. So they were in merrillville. The other 2 came after Morton shit down there program. 

That’s already Happened in NWI

It's happening everywhere, not just Indiana, and it's mimicking the college transfer portal. Until the IHSAA puts their foot down restricting varsity eligibility, it's going to continue to happen. And it's pretty naïve to not think tampering is going on as well. 

1 hour ago, MHSTigerFan said:

I'm all about fighting through adversity.  But I think you're creating a false choice here:

Option 1:  Fight through the first sign of adversity

Option 2: Transfer to a different program

The way you're saying this, there is no Option 3.  In other words, the *only* explanation for a transfer is an unwillingness to fight through adversity in their current program.  I certainly agree that this is a possible one.  Another possible one is that a school has a lot of players at your position, and you'd like to see the field.  Another possible one is that the academic environment isn't well-suited to a student.  Or maybe the social culture at the current school is unhealthy.

The list of reasons a student might want to transfer schools is large.  And I think it should be OK, even if it's primarily motivated by sports.

I'm talking about kids who jump to 3 or 4 schools in their 4 year career. We're heading that direction, already seeing it on the hardwood. I understand a kid transferring after their freshman year being in an overwhelmed situation, but you're now seeing kids transfer every year. That's not healthy in my opinion. 

1 hour ago, crimsonace1 said:

Generally, blatantly athletic transfers tend to fall into two categories

*-Trophy-shopping - parents are looking for a place where their kid is most likely to win championships. These parents also tend to be really vocal on community social media groups and will let everyone in town know how superior their chosen school is compared to the local school. 

*-Conflicts with the coach/playing time/et al - you see this a lot. "My kid is a D1 player and they're not getting recruited so it's the coach's fault ... the coach isn't designing the offense around my kid ... the coach is mean to me ... the coach plays favorites." Often, these kids also seem to discover they're not getting recruited at other schools, too, and their kid isn't the focal center of the offense. 

I've seen both - especially in my years coaching and being around basketball. Sometimes, it's worked out and the kids climb the ladder (even though they play less minutes and have less of a role than they might have had they stayed home), sometimes, they sit the end of the bench when they could've been a rotation player. And they generally end up going to the same colleges they probably would've gone to before. 

Scenario 2 is the type of transfer that needs to be weeded out. If the IHSAA doesn’t put their foot down, it’s only going to be a matter of time before an athlete transfers after the first game because they either didn’t start or were pulled and will try and force their way into a different roster at a different school in the same season.

10 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

I'm not doubting for one second officials don't get all calls correct.  Some can absolutely hurt worse than others.  But as we all know, coaches don't get every play call correct, and players certainly don't execute all plays...or even close to all plays.  

Comments like the one I referenced, if serious, come off as sour grapes.  They discredit the opponent.  I just had to laugh at a comment that basically states "I am going to whine, but don't anyone whine about my whining."  Whether intended or not, that was funny stuff!  

Cathedral will come back stronger than ever...and the kids got better last night playing that caliber of opponent on their home field.  Did someone mention about O'Neill being injured?  I sure hope that is not the case.  Special talent.  CG lost all-state tailback Drew Wheat for the season in the opening quarter last week against WC.  Simply sucks when this happens to a young person, especially their senior year.  I know Danny has another season to play, but let's hope he is just fine.

To be fair, that poster has whined about officiating over the years more than just anybody else on here, so I take it with a grain of salt. I rarely mention officiating on here and I don’t think it factored into the outcome of last nights game at all. I was simply pointing out what I thought were poor calls in last nights game. 

6 minutes ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

Not sure I entirely agree with you on the top 7, but I think you can make the argument for any one in that group to be higher.

CG, BD, Brownsburg, New Pal are my most impressive teams thus far with Warren knocking on the door.

Based on actual results to date:

1. Center Grove

2. Brownsburg

3. New Pal

4. Ben Davis

5. Warren

8 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

LOL...you can whine about the officiating and that's just fine.  But no one can whine about your whining......that's hilarious!!  I hope that was a joke!!

I thought they were just ok. Few questionable holding calls each way and I do think they called a pretty egregious PI on a crucial 3rd down on a play with pretty minimal contact on a ball that was well overthrown. They did almost screw Cathedral out of a possession late as they were trying to come back. Never reset the down after a holding penalty and it may not have gotten corrected if it weren’t for a very animated sideline and lengthy discussion. But I’ve seen far worse at this level, that’s for sure.

15 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Or perhaps it teaches them to recognize and take advantage of opportunities to better themselves.

If you’re at your 4th school in 4 years that says everything about you and not the opportunity.

16 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Agreed. We can’t have all these kids going to school wherever they and their parents think is the best place for them. Athletic competitive balance is much more important.

Anyone is free to chose whatever high school they want, haven’t argued otherwise. But it should come with a caveat, you transfer schools for athletic purposes, you lose varsity eligibility for 365 days.

49 minutes ago, temptation said:

1. Center Grove
2. Brownsburg 
3. Cathedral
4. Warren Central
5. Carmel 
6. New Palestine 
7. Ben Davis
8. Hamilton Southeastern
9. Westfield
10. Roncalli
11. Lawrence Central
12. Fishers
13. Bishop Chatard
14. Merrillville
15. East Central
16. Whiteland
17. Carroll (Fort Wayne)
18. Penn
19. Fort Wayne Snider 
20. Franklin
21. Noblesville
22. Mooresville 
23. Warsaw
24. Brebeuf Jesuit
25. West Lafayette

New Pal might be the best team in the state, regardless of class.

6 hours ago, Bobref said:

I understand that could happen. What I don’t understand is why that’s bad.

Because what kind of life lesson does that teach? Pack up and move at the first sign of adversity? That’s a terrible thing to allow and if the IHSAA sets a precedent going forward that no transfer will affect varsity eligibility, it’s going to get out of hand. Like it’s already impacted the college game, there will be tons of unintended consequences.

Tough one to lose but Brownsburg clearly the better team, and their experience also showed as well. They won the line of scrimmage.

Cathedral’s defense is a mess and special teams are even worse. Untimely penalties, poor execution, turnovers, etc you name it, tonight was a disaster. Only week 2 and still time to develop, but the new starters need to grow up in a hurry. That wasn’t acceptable football tonight.

Another special teams miscue.

Brownsburg 42-20 in full control

1 minute ago, GC42 said:

Brownsburg 28

Cathedral 14

Brownsburg immediately responds with an 80 yard touchdown pass.

Gut punch 

Just now, DumfriesYMCA said:

Brownsburg always one of the best teams. But even so this was a shock to see.  Hopefully they make it a game in the 2nd half 

Cathedral has moved the ball but has a fumble inside their 10 and a blocked punt setting up a short field. Brownsburg is winning the line of scrimmage. Gashing Cathedral in the run game.

Feel like points are a must on this opening drive or else Brownsburg going to be able to bleed clock.

3 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

What is going on.

Embarrassingly pathetic half from Cathedral. Penalties, turnovers, poor execution…lifeless.

Oh yeah, Brownsburg is really good too. 
 

Edit. 4 play 80 yard score in less than a minute for Cathedral. Irish get ball to start second half. Must stop here.

7 hours ago, Bobref said:

If that’s what the kid wants to do, why shouldn’t he be able to do that?

And it’s only “tampering” if you define it as such. If my kid is a math whiz, why shouldn’t he be able to go to high school A, which has a great math teacher? And if that math teacher switches to another school, why shouldn’t my kid be able to follow him/her?

One of the rationales for open enrollment was that schools would end up competing with one another for students. As a result, they would have to step up their game to compete successfully, and the students would benefit. Why do we always think athletics should be immune to that type of reasoning?
 

 

Do you honestly think that a 14-17 year old kid wakes up once a year and decides to transfer from high school to high school four different times without their being some kind of “undue influence” (tampering) going along somewhere? 
 

There’s no rule that states a student can’t transfer 4 different times. But there needs to be some kind of precedent set that transferring to 4 different high schools in 4 years should be met with some kind of eligibility restriction. 

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

In these days of open enrollment, why are there eligibility restrictions on transfers?

Because you’re going to end up with kids playing for 4 different schools in 4 different years if kids are able to freely transfer without eligibility restrictions. And to that point I would think you’d see tampering on a whole different level.

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Don't get butt hurt about semantics.  Yes, Cathedral has more high level talent at the skill positions than anyone else in Indiana and has a competent, yet inexperienced offensive line that will likely get better every week.  That'll be good enough against 90 percent of its schedule (this week may be the 10 percent, but I still like the Irish to win).

Willing to bet that we don't know the names yet, but at least 1-2 of the current guys on the Cathedral OL will eventually play at the next level...I am sure @Footballking16 could verify or deny that assumption.

Always love it when OL guys, and by guys I mean adults, feel "disrespected" when they are not mentioned in the same breath as QBs/RBs/WRs...

 

Can’t verify or deny as I really don’t know, but wouldn’t bet against 1 or 2 of the guys playing major college football down the road. You’re talking 5 guys who who all will be making just their second varsity start later this evening. The O-Line will need a few weeks to gel and acclimate to the speed of the varsity game, but as you suggested, should be in fine tune at the end of the year. 

6 minutes ago, BTF said:

What if there were a team that sported a D1 WR, a D3 WR, a D3 RB, and a D3 QB? Would you say that three D1's are far superior to that scenario? I mean, "far" superior is quite a statement. 

There’s not a team (in my opinion) that can match the collection of talent in the skill department than that of Cathedral, hence my far superior comment. It is quite a statement. And I stand by it, and it’s certainly not without merit. You can make a legitimate case that O’Neil, Tibbs, and Wooten are the three best at their position this year.

3 minutes ago, BTF said:

I think FBKing might be willing to admit that he overstated the "far superior" bit.

I’ve asked you now three times to offer up a team that has anywhere near the collection of wealth and talent in the skill position department? You’ve yet to offer anything.

Either put up or shut up. Again, I said it’s an opinion. But I stand by it.

1 minute ago, MonkeyButt said:

Look I am not saying they are not talented. Cathedral typically reloads, not rebuilds. But the OL is the reason for skill players success 90% of the time. And that is usually what makes the difference in big games. La Jeff is no where near the caliber of teams that Cathedral will face in some of their games this year and definitely not in the playoffs. But I know Cathedral is well coached and will be prepared for anyone. 

How many are on Varsity roster btw? 

Cathedral was up 3 scores before Lafayette Jeff could blink last week. No doubt Brownsburg is a major step up in competition, but it’s not like Cathedral doesn’t present a major challenge for Brownsburg in their own right. Brownsburg was pretty fortunate to squeak out a win against a short handed Ben Davis team who hasn’t exactly set the world on fire these last couple years and even with an inexperienced offensive line, Cathedral is still likely a decided favorite.

I’ve given my score prediction on the CHS-Brownsburg game thread (21-13) and while I do think it’ll be a close game throughout, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to see Cathedral win by a couple scores. 

2 minutes ago, MonkeyButt said:

Those three are impressive. I know others that are just as good with D1 offers, but I'd be more impress if they had OL with D1 offers. Skill players are nothing without their OL. I know Danny and I know he'd say the same thing. So a team can have all the skill players they want, but without a line that can keep the defensive pressure to a minimum skill players won't be able to get the ball to do anything. Heck there are three D1 players on New Pals team, and I say they are some of the best in the state too, but two of those players are OL. 

I'd also argue that just because a kid has a D1 school or multiple ones following them, means the TEAM is going to be far superior. There are 22 guys on the field that have to do their jobs every play. There are some D1 players on Brownsburg too, and on defense. I just won't hang Cathedrals success on those three. I am happy for them and they are good, but far superior? That may be a stretch. 

Cathedral’s offensive line is inexperienced to date, as would be the case anytime you have to replace 5 senior starters from the year prior, but they certainly aren’t without talent. I’ll assure you that. 

8 minutes ago, BTF said:

Cathedral is probably a good place to start. But I haven't researched all 317 teams to say that they are "far" superior. 

You don’t need a full set of fingers on one hand to count the number of teams in the state that have two D1 commits at the skill positions, let alone 3. It’s not a knock on anyone else, you’re just not going to find another team this year with that many weapons at multiple positions.