Footballking16

10 minutes ago, BTF said:

Cathedral probably has the best skill guys in the state, you lost me at "far superior."

It’s an opinion obviously. But I’d be hard pressed to know another team in the state that has anywhere close to the collection of wealth and talent in the skill position department as Cathedral? You have anything to offer?

12 minutes ago, BTF said:

How do you know this?

How many other teams in the state have a D1 QB, WR, and TE on their roster? Tibbs (Purdue) and O’Neil (several high major offers) are both P5 players and Wooten has recently committed to Western Michigan.

4 hours ago, MonkeyButt said:

I think Cathedral loses to Brownsburg tomorrow night. I don't think it will be a blowout, but I don't see anyone going undefeated this year and as the year progresses we will see some upsets out of the likes of like LN and LC too. They get better as the year progresses. So I see a tight MIC conference going against a tight Hoosier Crossroads Conference with Cathedral fitting right in the middle. I think it is all up in the air to be honest. Cathedral wasn't really tested against La Jeff. My son played their 2023 class as a freshman and we were up 41 points in the first half. So I wouldn't really say they were a show of Cathedral's ability. However, tomorrow night I think we will see them actually tested. I hope for a good game. Regardless the next state champ is coming out of Indy. Sorry southern and northern teams. No state title for y'all again this year. Maybe in... well honestly I don't see it any time soon.

 

I think Cathedral could lose tomorrow, but I wouldn’t bet on it until the tournament, in the event it happens. Cathedral’s skill position players are far superior to anyone else in the state. Obviously I’m biased, but you can make a legitimate argument that O’Neil, Tibbs, Wooten at QB/WR/TE are the best at their positions over anyone in the state. CHS breaking in an entire new OL is obviously a concern early, but they have too many weapons at every other position on that side of the ball.

I too think this game will be closer than it should be. Cathedral did what they needed to do early for a ho hum win at Jeff while Brownsburg survived on the road against a short handed BD team. Brownsburg DL will test an inexperienced Cathedral OL but Cathedral has far superior talent at the skill positions and make one too many plays.

21-13 Irish 

7 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

I don't believe this , Penn won 5 state titles playing the same NIC teams . Penn has not been the same since Coach Geesman retired . Penn was always well prepared for state title games under Geesman . Under Yeoman , when they did get there (aside from 2015) they have the deer in the headlights look.

Penn used to have an enrollment advantage over all but 2-3 schools in Indiana. That has dwindled as there are now several schools with 3000+ students. Competition in Indy is elite almost every week whereas it’s not in the NIC.

3 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

But have you ever been to Osceola or Mishawaka?

To your point, SES would have nothing to do with Penn's struggles. 

Nor enrollment.

Penn needs to get out and play a big boy football schedule.

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

You are getting closer...

 

Yes, it does...especially when you factor in SES and other factors.

Tech and CG had similar enrollments at the beginning of the last cycle...but they were/are worlds apart on the gridiron.

Wonder why...

Every single 6A school, Tech included, has 125-150 male students capable of playing high school football. How well the school corporation, staff, and it school markets it’s football program from the youth system all the way to grade 9 makes a world of a difference. There is zero to no structure in IPS and that’s why Tech has been garbage. But it’s not due to lack of capable bodies.

6 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Maybe because their athletes don't have access to or can't afford access to this aforementioned "more sophisticated training" than their Indianapolis area peers.

 

You ever been to Granger? SES ain’t the issue.

19 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

I think this was mentioned by someone on another thread (sorry, can't remember who or where), but is there an aspect of diminishing returns when it comes to enrollment? Does an extra 500 kids make that big of a difference when we're talking about schools of 2500+ to begin with? 

Yes it was me, and it gets redundant after a certain threshold.
 

You need 125-150 kids, grades 9-12, to run a competent 6A football program in my opinion. That’s 12-15% of the male population in a school of 2000 kids. That’s not a reach.

15 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

Why bring up Penn , When not one Penn Person ever said a word about enrollment ? 

Because Penn is the poster child of being non-competitive against the Indy hegemony the last 20 years. And it ain’t due to their enrollment, which is BTF claim.

1 minute ago, BTF said:

They have their down years just like any other program. They're not expected to be the best every year, just expected to have the most championships over the course of time (which they do). And kudos to those programs for having good coaching staffs, that's a key element to this. 

The hierarchy of football in central Indiana has drastically changed, even in the last 5 years. WC and BD aren’t shells of their former selfs, and while you can attribute some of that to the pandemic, I’m not sure you’ll ever see either of those programs line up and dominate they way they used too, mega-enrollment or not.

Center Grove is undoubtedly the pinnacle program of central Indiana (as well as the state) and Coach Moore has laid such a tremendous amount of ground work, I’m not sure that is ever going to be reversed. Carmel will always be Carmel, but they were human these last two years after going to the south half of the bracket. They will always be a contender, going north.

Cathedral will be a 6A school for the foreseeable future. They will be a major player in 6A for years to come. 

8 minutes ago, BTF said:

I agree. Penn just hasn't been the same since Geesman retired. Yoeman is good, but Geesman ranks somewhere in the Top 10 of all time. 

The north only has one program, Penn, that ranks in the Top 10 in enrollments. The three largest schools, Carmel, Ben Davis, and Warren Central also have the most state championships with nine each. Coincidence?

I'm not sure if the forementioned teams are the three largest currently, but they were when they won their 27 state titles. 

You'll also never here me feeling sorry for ANY program with 3000+ students. At least we are on the same page on that one. 

Carmel, BD, and Warren are still the 3 largest schools in the state and all 3 are currently 0-1 losing to 3 opponents all with vastly inferior enrollments. Carmel and Warren failed to win their sectional last year  and BD hasn’t played in LOS since 2017. 

36 minutes ago, BTF said:

I get it, we all get it. You just want to pump your chest saying "we're the greatest." Hell, you can't even admit that your Irish have advantages. Luers fans go home every year disappointed after getting thumped by Snider. Is it because Snider has a better program? Hardly. They have an enrollment advantage and Luers doesn't have a metro of 2 million to recruit from, like a certain program in Indy does. When you have an advantage, it's okay to admit it. 

Way to bring up Cathedral in an argument that has nothing to do with Cathedral. Penn has 500 less students than Warren Central, it’s a tiring argument about enrollment. When you have 3,000+ kids in your school, the argument about not being able to put a competitive football team on the field is ridiculous.

Citing Penn’s enrollment to a lack of competitiveness against the Indy hegemony is absolute hog wash.

7 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Westfield does not really =  "North".    We are talking about schools outside of Marion county and the surrounding doughnut counties.

 

I know where Westfield is located.

I’m tired of hearing about the enrollment “excuse” when it comes to a lack of competitiveness in state title games between Indy area schools and true northern schools. Westfield, at 2600 kids, was more than competitive in their state title game last year. A school like Penn can’t use their enrollment as an excuse as to why they aren’t competitive when they make it to the state finals.

1 hour ago, BTF said:

The enrollment disparity is hard to overcome. It's like I said in another post. A northern team may catch 4 of the 5 mega schools on an average year, but at least one of those schools is going to have an up year and take care of their smaller northern counterpart.

Tired of this excuse.

Penn has had 3000+ students for two decades. Homestead and Carroll are both bigger than Center Grove. Westfield and its 2600 students came out of the North last year (with no mega enrollment school in the way) and gave CG all they could handle last year.

36 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

I understand your comments....but it seems hard to say a team can't compete in 6A, when they have won 3 consecutive regionals in 6A.  When I look at teams 16-32 in 6A, I struggle to think Merrillvile cannot compete with them and win their fair share of those contests.  I am not disagreeing with your comments when you stack them among the best of 6A.

Merrillville can absolutely “compete” in 6A as can several other non-6A schools in pretty much every class. There’s never going to be 32 (or 64 depending on class) contenders a year. This is why the IHSAA classifies schools by enrollment. 6A is no different from the rest of the classes in the sense that there are truly only 4-5 contenders a year, and they’re usually the same faces. But it would be rather silly for the IHSAA to classify schools on ability to “compete”.

5 minutes ago, Hoosier21 said:

Yeah…. U were there 🤔

Were you? 

13 hours ago, Bears62 said:

Co-GOTW: Westfield(-4.5) at New Pal

Co-GOTW: Warren Central at Center Grove(-11)

Andrean at Merrillville(-9.5)

Avon at Lawrence North(-2)

Brownsburg(-4) at Ben Davis

Fort Wayne Carroll(-6.5) at Fort Wayne Luers

Evansville Memorial(pk) at Jasper(pk)

Fishers(-9) at North Central

Fort Wayne North at Fort Wayne Snider(-8)

HSE(-7) at Lawrence Central

Harrison WL(-2) at West Lafayette

Cathedral(-38) at Lafayette Jeff

Chatard(-13.5) at Brebeuf Jesuit

Louisville Trinity at Carmel(-4.5)

Mount Vernon at Noblesville(-8.5)

Valpo(-4) at Penn

Zionsville(-8.5) at Pike

Columbus North at Decatur Central(-19)

Elkhart(-11.5) at Concord

Hobart at Chesterton(-7.5)

Kokomo(pk) at Leo(pk)

Michigan City(-18) at Warsaw

Speedway(-2.5) at Covenant Christian

Whiteland(-14) at Columbus East

New Pal +4.5

CG -11

Andrean +9.5

LN -2

Brownsburg -4

Luers +6.5

Memorial pk

NC +9

Snider -8

HSE -7

Harrison -2

Jeff +38

Brebeuf +13.5

Trinity +4.5

Mt Vernon +8.5

Valpo -4

Zionsville -8.5

CN +19

Elkhart -11.5

Hobart +7.5

Kokomo pk

MC -18

CC +2.5

Whiteland -14

37 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

Would love to see Carmel play cathedral every year. Cathedral has one of their weaker schedules in recent history this year.

Sad but true. No St. X (for the second straight year) and believe Roncalli pushed back their renewal date a year (hence the open week), leaving a pretty meh schedule. CG and Brownsburg will be nice tests and could possibly be 6A regional and semi-state previews. The Chatard game is obviously the Chatard game, but nothing else really excites me.

10 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Totally agree...the options seem to be limited for independents.

CG travels to Trinity friday night Labor Day weekend....Trojans first 4 games are WC, Carmel, Trinity and BD.

Used to not be as big of a deal as Cathedral would play 2, sometime 3 GCL teams a year, but appears that is going away. 

5 hours ago, LC_Bears_04 said:

Now that Carmel is an independent and will have more open dates on their schedule to fill, hopefully they're willing to add Cathedral back to their schedule.

Agreed.

Cathedral has an open date already this year and plays Hammond Morton for the second straight year. With Carmel being independent for the time being really, hope that changes and both these teams agree to play each other annually. Sounds like future dates with Cincy GCL teams are going to be few and far between so need schools like Center Grove and Carmel to be on the schedule consistently.

11 hours ago, LC_Bears_04 said:

Forgot to mention Louisville Trinity at Carmel.  Carmel is loaded with 15 returning starters, multiple D1 recruits, and is more than capable of winning a state title this season.  Carmel went down to Louisville and beat Trinity 49-38 last season, so Carmel should beat Trinity by double digits this season.

Last year was probably the worst team Trinity has fielded in 20+ years. They started 0-6, yet still managed to make it to the state finals where they were soundly beaten by Male for the second time that season.

I do have the Greyhounds winning this one Friday but I think it’s a game that really could go either way. Trinity is one of the most dominant football programs in the Midwest and have 27 state titles. That’s impressive any way you slice it.

Didn’t realize Westfield and New Pal played.  Honestly might be the best game in Central Indiana.

Would be a massive statement for the MIC to have both Warren and BD win this weekend. Personally I have both losing by 2 TD’s.

CG

Brownsburg

Zionsville

Carmel

HSE

LN

NC

Get rid of the all-in.
 

Add a tenth regular season game, create a formula that effectively cuts the field in half after the 10th regular season game, send 16 teams north and 16 south and seed them accordingly in a single elimination bracket that allows for a championship game to still be played at LOS Stadium Thanksgiving Weekend. 

45 minutes ago, temptation said:

@Footballking16might drop by to actually explain why the Irish should be applauded for scheduling the game and even go as far to say they should be underdogs due to the enrollment discrepancy.

Good opportunity for the youngsters. 
 

With Cathedral already having an open date, this board would have exploded had the Irish only played a 7 game regular schedule, along with having an extra week before the start of sectionals…with you of course leading the charge.