Footballking16

Yeah I think Georgia is done if they lose tomorrow. Currently at #3, they would drop 2-3 spots and simply wouldn't have many other outs going forward unless several teams in front of them lose. Win on Saturday and I think UT is in regardless of what they do in the SEC championship so long as they don't lose to Mizzou, SC, or Vandy to end the year. Still have this feeling Alabama is going to run the table from here on out and play their way in.

Football is a no cut sport so I'm sure that argument holds true. But I don't think Carmel's dominance in country club sports has anything to do with its football program as I imagine the football program isn't competing with those sports for athletes. I imagine that is the case just about everywhere else. I do think Carmel's support system at the feeder and youth levels are weakening and could be the root problem going forward.

This hurts loser of OSU/UM the most in my opinion, depending on how far UT drops in the event they lose Saturday. I do think if Clemson and/or TCU end up running the table they will jump UT in the final poll regardless of where they are ranked heading into the game. Alabama is strategically placed at 6 to where they have an in assuming they win out and beat UT/GA in the SEC championship.

How many of the country club sports are really competing with football though? You don't see many kids deciding between golf and football or swimming and football. Soccer has always been the Fall sport that has competed directly with football. Lacrosse is another booming sport that is also competes directly with the type of kid that plays football but is a Spring sport here in Indiana. Still, with the numbers Carmel has, it shouldn't be an issue. The more I think about it, I think Temp may be right about Carmel getting too big for its own good. And to further it, I don't think its just the school, but Carmel itself. Carmel has eclipsed 100k residents and is now the 4th largest city in the state and will soon pass Evansville sometime in the next 5-10 years. Unlike its Hamilton County counterparts, Carmel today has much more of a city vibe than a town/community vibe. There's a ton of families living in Carmel that have next to nothing to do with Carmel High School who send their kids elsewhere. I think this hurts Carmel internally more than people want to lead on.

I’m not anointing the Carmel program dead, just pointing out that there seems to be a clear downward trend. And the dwindling participation numbers within the youth and junior high feeders suggest this may be more than just a cyclical issue.

So a talent problem then? Coaching? Not enough D1 kids or what? Carmel for years had phenomenal offensive lines who were nasty and bullied other teams. Haven’t seen that the last few years. They’re on a downward trajectory, I think that’s pretty evident. No longer the top dog in Hamilton County, that torch has been passed.

They replicate what they did against Ben Davis and I think they roll the rest of the field.

Favorable or not that's still a gauntlet, would much rather be in the northern half of the bracket at this juncture. However, Brownsburg does have the horses to navigate it.

I heard Carmel Dad's Club is virtually non-existent these days for football and two of the Junior High Schools have numbers that are considerably down. While its true they get move ins, they do lose their share of talent to Guerin, Brebeuf, Cathedral in some cases. Temp may have hit the nail on the head yesterday about Carmel's size finally catching up to them.

Closer than the first matchup but I see Roncalli controlling both the clock and the ball in this one.

Is it cyclical though? Carmel had two B10 commits plus a few MAC/G5 caliber players. Not sure talent was/has been the issue for Carmel. Attitude, toughness, etc or in this case lack thereof, is generally what I'm hearing has been an issue for Carmel these last few years. Does seem like a culture problem much more than a coaching/talent issue. John Herbert just didn't forget how to coach overnight.

You made the parameters not me. Have Carmel demographics shifted that much in the last 5 years? On a side note, you may be on to something about the size of Carmel. I know there are a fair amount of Carmel kids not playing at Carmel.

That's a lot of moms.

24-9 the last 3 years doesn't scream an immediate problem, but Carmel has seen each of its last two seasons end in the sectional rounds and they seem to be a shell of its former self. Carmel played for a state championship in 5 of the 7 years from 2013-2019 (won 2) and hasn't sniffed one since. If you subscribe to the idea the mega enrollment schools + low SES numbers=state contenders, then Carmel is failing miserably. Word on the street is that participation numbers are extremely low at 2/3 junior high so this may indicate a more widescale problem. 4-5 years ago I would have told you that Carmel may have been the most desirable high school football job in the Midwest, it may not even be the most desirable job in its own county.

And why I will continue to maintain that if you need an entitled postseason game to bring yourself to show up 100% every week, you’re part of a bigger problem.

Maybe prefaced that wrong. There have been several inclinations, many on this thread alone, that suggests teams would start mailing it in after starting 0-4, as if the all-in is the single motivating factor for keeping teams intact. Would you disagree with that?

I was just giving my experiences having played in a sport with an all-in and a sport where you had to qualify. Granted, these experiences were anywhere from 15-20 years ago so I'm sure times have changed in certain instances. But my point remains that kids are going to play when and where you tell them to play. Seems to be this myth floating around that if you "take" away the postseason from everyone then you'll start to see a decline in participation. Is there any evidence that a state like Indiana has a growing participation rate being it's an all-in state bs a state where teams have to qualify? I haven't seen anything that suggests this.

Wire is a stretch but yes Penn did play Cathedral better than they've had in the past. It is important to note that CHS was down their starting RB, TE, and DT, two of which are D1 commits. Definitely suffered a first half hangover after a pretty demoralizing loss to Brownsburg, but turned it on in the second half when they needed too. As far as Carroll goes, I haven't seen them play so can't really comment. They should have their chance to prove themselves here in a few weeks assuming they get past Crown Point.

It makes the regular season actually mean something. I've said this from the onset. Can't tell me that an historically weak program actually qualifying for the postseason wouldn't bring great joy and achievement to that school, community, its players, fans, and coaches. Much more than being entitled to a postseason game under the current format. I played under the all-in. I was indifferent to it, I didn't know any better. But as a competitive person who for years has watched different sports at different levels for nearly my entire life, it's asinine to think a playoff format can exist without taking a single ounce of consideration from the regular season. It doesn't make any sense. I grew up playing travel baseball. Played 10-15 tournaments a summer. You were put in a pool with 3 other teams. You played a round robin schedule Thursday and Friday and the top two teams advanced to the championship bracket and the other two either went to the consolation bracket or in some cases didn't play over the weekend at all. Never once did I get the feeling we were being cheated in the event our team didn't advance. Winners get rewarded, losers don't. I think most kids realize that at an early age. I played CYO football and back in the day you had to win your division to make the playoffs. It wasn't a novel idea back then just like it isn't today. I'm guessing if you polled 100 Indiana high school football athletes from all over the state in different classes, very little, if any, would tell you they play high school football because the all-in exists. I'm guessing the same percent would tell you they'd still play football even if their team was forced to qualify.

Never said it was a given that if a team starts 0-4 they will make it, but it doesn’t it doesn’t automatically end their season right there. Just because you played in a terrible qualifying format decades ago doesn’t mean a functioning and competitive format can’t exist today. Nobody is advocating for the old points or cluster system to return. Eliminating half the field at the conclusion of the regular isn’t a stretch by any means.

Call it whatever you like. Pike Central’s “run”,along with inclusion, to the sectional championship only exists due to a fundamentally flawed and broken system.

An added tenth regular season game gives teams more flexibility. Again, if all but 2 states in the Union can figure it out so can Indiana. Mailing it in is a choice. That’s a program/culture issue, not a postseason format issue. If you need an “entitled” postseason game to bring yourself to strap it up every Friday night you need to be taking a long hard look in the mirror.

Irregardless, if teams mail it in early because they are no longer “entitled” to a postseason game that’s a “culture/program” problem not a postseason format problem. Adding a tenth regular season game solves that issue rather quickly.

I think Georgia is better than UT and expect them to beat the Vols next week but I think UT deserves to be #1 out of the gate purely based on resume to date.

I might be ready to put Illinois ahead of Penn State. Can’t help but to think where Illinois would be ranked today had they not tripped out of the gate to IU of all teams.