Footballking16

If Lawrence Central played Lake Central’s schedule in Lake Central’s conference in that half of the bracket they’d be considered a decent program.

There’s nearly as many schools in the top half of enrollment and below 50% F/R lunch in 6A that I would define as not having long term success as the schools you listed for 6A in the bottom half of enrollment and over 50% of F/R lunch? What’s your point? All that illustrates is success isn’t limited to any single factor.

Lawrence Central has a better football program than Lake Central and has had statewide success in the last decade. Deal with it.

I don't need to give you names of other programs. I've given you plenty of names and examples of programs over the years who have high enrollment/his SES numbers that don't translate to winning football programs, which has been your primary argument for years. Why can't we agree that there is a multitude of factors that go into a winning formula and it isn't limited to money and high enrollment? Seems logical, no?

For every one Center Grove, you have a Penn, Noblesville, Lake Central who check both boxes in the SES and enrollment departments who are just flat bad. Throw in a North Central who has been historically bad and a Fishers program who continues to slide further and further into mediocrity.

But at some point, there's a certain threshold where # of boys shouldn't really matter. If you have 1500 boys in your school, that's enough (or should be) to field a more than competitive football team. I don't have exact numbers, but I would imagine that most 6A schools have at least 100+ football players in its program grades 9-12. Some schools might dress 80-100 kids Friday night, but in reality you're really only relying on maybe 40-50 kids who see the field on any given Friday night. If you have 2500+ kids in your school and can't find 40-50 decent to good football players to the point you're not competitive on a Friday night that's either a culture or coaching problem. SES at a 6A school is all window dressing. There's more than enough affluent to middle class schools with 2500+ kids who have average to bad football programs right now.

BD and Carmel are the only two remaining 6A schools that have a significant enrollment advantage. Warren Central, while still a very big school, isn't as big as it once was in comparison to the rest of 6A. There's now 13 schools within 1,000 students of Warren Central and many are closing the gap rather quickly. They don't have a talent advantage over anybody right now. 10-20 years ago they would frequently line up 3-4 legit D1 prospects on either side of the ball and the game would be over by kick off against all but one or two opponents. That isn't the case anymore and I'm guessing will never be the case again going forward.

Then Ben Davis needs to get rid of Jason Simmons then ASAP, he's 25-24 in 4 years at Ben Davis. The enrollment gap between Warren Central and many of the HCC schools is drastically closing as is the talent gap. Warren and BD can no longer just show up and win on talent alone like they could for the last 2-3 decades.

Be interesting to see how dominant CG can be over the next few years. They’re clearly the cream of the crop in 6A but even the ardent of CG supporters have to admit the last two senior classes contained some generational talent. CG may come back to Earth and that would open things up and make 6A interesting.

I'm not completely writing off Warren Central or Ben Davis or leaving them for dead. I'm just convinced the window where we can expect Warren Central and Ben Davis to automatically be state title contenders every single year has closed. There will be years where both BD and WC have special classes with good talent who absolutely can and may even win it all, but there's too many other programs who have closed the talent gap.

It always ruins a perfectly good narrative though!!

I'd be shocked if less than 95% of LCC's and Andrean's rosters were comprised of anything but CYO kids although in this day of age guessing travel ball gets in the way of CYO baseball. It's not what it used to be. I couldn't tell you where Illiana Christian is located on a map but can assure you it has nothing to do with CYO.

Don't know the optics or inner-workings of either high school but yes fair to say HSE is the football school of the two. Both seem to have solid baseball programs who have each won state titles the last few years and basketball programs seem to be equal although Fishers has a to-be sophomore that is one of the best prospects in the country. I think Haralson has La Lumiere or Montverde written all over him, but should Fishers hang onto him, they'll be a major player in the state tournament the next few years.

Cathedral baseball on an extremely impressive run the last few weeks. Think they were right around .500 with a couple ties (how do you tie in baseball?) heading in to the tournament.

Think they're on the right trajectory. Michael Kelly is a very good coach and took over a program who had wildly underachieved the three seasons prior. Went 8-3 last year and honestly should have beaten Westfield last year in the sectional final, that was a brutal way to lose a football game. I put them as a contender simply because they avoided sectional 4 and if they are able to knock off the Carmel/Westfield winner (which isn't out of the question) they will be the 6A North representative come Thanksgiving Weekend.

I think Brownsburg is better than both Warren and BD but you'd have to be crazy at this point to trust Brownsburg in an elimination game. South will go through Cathedral/Center Grove and then North will go through the Carmel/Westfield winner and HSE. HSE dodged a huge bullet avoiding Sectional 4.

Also, Notre Dame never offered Ekiyor. Was committed to Michigan for the longest time and flipped to Alabama close to signing day. Had Markese Stepp in the same class as Ekiyor but had to rescind their offer due to grades.

That’s Bob’s point. ND is extremely selective with who they covet in-state. Notre Dame extended 3 offers to in-state prospects for this incoming class; Joey Tanona, Ashton Craig, and Cayden Curry, 4 offers if you count Dasan McCullough who played his senior year in Bloomington but was a Kansas resident when ND offered. Two of the three committed and Curry was never heavily pursued by Notre Dame despite receiving an offer.

They offered 177 high school seniors in the class of 2022 per 247 knowing only 20-25 would eventually commit. Can’t prioritize everyone and neither McCullough (who wasn’t an in-state kid at the time he was offered) nor Curry were high priority targets. There’s a difference and that’s what Bob is alluding too. https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Season/2022-Football/Offers/

Don’t think ND recruited Dasan overly aggressive and he was a Kansas resident when he committed to Ohio State initially very early in his high school career. Not a ND fan by any means, but Notre Dame is typically selective towards the in-state kids they covet and to Bob’s point, they win almost all the battles with kids they make priorities. Pete Werner is probably the last kid Notre Dame really wanted (at one point was committed to ND) but ultimately flipped to Ohio State.

Is Jayson West not a good coach? He has three large class titles (at two different schools) and upped and moved to a school that has a tenth of the history that Warren does. That’s an extremely telling story line. No one is doubting Mike Kirschner’s coaching abilities, but Warren isn’t the juggernaut it once was nor are they feared. They’ve been passed by more than a few schools since their last state title.

Both. Definitely gets credit for taking on the job, but let’s be real, Mt. Vernon was a ticking time bomb. One of the fastest growing districts in the state and has been trending up for years. They will be a major player in 4A until they are inevitably bumped up again due to either enrollment or SF.

Warren Central isn’t doomed, they just no longer are the premier program in Indiana as they once were a decade or so ago. They’ve been passed by a few other programs the last couple years and I expect that trend to continue. Warren Central no longer plays in the state’s premier football conference and are now dropping the state’s measuring stick in Center Grove, from future schedules. Warren Central used to be the barometer for success in this state, that is no longer the case.

Warren Central HAD a state championship coach already on the sidelines (two different schools I might add) and decided to leave for a bottom of the barrel program in the HHC. That’s should tell you everything you need to know about the direction Warren Central is heading.

That state champion coach went 4-5 last year. They’re likely not going to challenge for a state title the next few years. Temp isn’t going to save you, in fact he’s already hurting your case, lamenting that Warren has already lost two starters to other programs. That isn’t a sign of a program on the rise.