Footballking16

OSU will cover, but if this was anybody other than an OSU player coaching ND this would be a 35-7 game…..at half. And it still might be. Might also be the final score too.

Carmel didn’t disappear in the 90’s, they just didn’t win any state titles. They won multiple sectional and regional championships and subsequently had multiple semi-state appearances. That decade of “disappearing” is a decade of excellence for all but 5 or 6 programs in the state. Just goes to show you how good Carmel has been for so long. But yes, good topic and discussion nonetheless.

Winning 9 state titles and 7 runner-ups spanning 5 different decades is the definition of sustained success. They have the most sectional titles of any program in the history of the sport. They are the walking definition of a blue-blood.

Both Warren and Carmel have had sustained success the last 50 years despite not winning a title in the 90's. There isn't a more successful big class school in the history of the sport than Carmel. They are most certainly an Indiana blue-blood and arguably at the top of the list in my opinion.

Carmel is almost certainly not out. I said in order to be considered you needed to have minimum 5 state titles in at least 3 different decades. They certainly fit that bill.

You forgot Carmel who has titles in the 70's, 80, 2000's, and 2010's. But yes that's a pretty solid list. My personal Mt Rushmore for Indiana High School Football is: Carmel Cathedral Luers Chatard

No. Clemson isn't a blue-blood and nowhere ever did I say Duke instantly became a blue-blood once Coach K took the reigns. K was at Duke 42 years and Duke achieved blue-blood status sometime during his tenure, my opinion in 2015 after winning his 5th title. This would have been 35 years into his tenure. I believe that is enough to qualify them in that regard. My opinion is that it takes close to 40-50 years to gain blue-blood status but again that's arbitrary. And it certainly should take longer than a decade or two to lose blue-blood status. Clemson right now is sitting at about a decade of sustained success. That qualifies them in the elite category (current) but still nowhere close to that blue-blood level. In my opinion Clemson needs at least another 20-25 years of similar success before being mentioned with the true blue-bloods of college football. I consider Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, USC, and Notre Dame to be the blue-bloods of college football. All five of those programs have had a sustained level of success for 50+ years. Michigan, Nebraska, and Texas are right behind them.

Again tough to do with Indiana High School football considering the amount of closures and consolidations over the years as well as enrollment boosts and other factors. I think there's several schools who fit the blue-blood criteria for a sustained period of success going back 40-50 years. I think to be considered a true blue-blood you need a minimum of 5 state titles and titles must be won in at least 3 different decades. That eliminates a good chunk of programs who have been on the upswing the last 15-20 years.

And that's why it's really hard to do in Indiana High School football unless you are simply establishing them by class or big school/small school. Because unlike college football or basketball there are multiple titles a year to be won.

Because being considered a blue-blood is an ultra-exclusive title. If we recognized every program who has shown a decade worth of sustained success, you'd have 30 something blue-blood programs. It would diminish the title. Duke is T-4th all-time in national titles. Duke went to 4 Final Fours and had two runner-ups in Coach K's first 10 years. Duke has achieved blue-blood status since K took over in 1980. There isn't a question about it. I've never seen Clemson considered a blue-blood in Football. By anybody. I've never seen them listed as a top 10 football program of all-time. By anybody. Because they aren't. Good program, but nowhere near blue-blood status and arguably not even top 15 all-time. The last decade, as good as it has been for them, doesn't change that narrative. Currently an elite program, but they need another 10-15 years of sustained success to even be considered, in my opinion.

Clemson has been one of the best 2-3 programs the last decade and won a title in 81. They were .500 throughout the 60s and 70's. They had some 10 win seasons in the 80's and 90's but also a ton of 6-5, 7-4 type seasons as well, all the way up until hiring Dabo. Top of my head, programs who are historically better than Clemson throughout the duration of college football: Alabama Ohio State USC Oklahoma Notre Dame Those are the 5 I considered Blue Blood Texas Nebraska Michigan Georgia Penn State Florida Tennessee FSU Miami Auburn There's another 10 who are all historically better than Clemson.

You could possibly lay claim to top 20 simply on recency bias, but there's no way there are top 15 historically and they aren't anywhere close to blue-blood status.

Clemson is nowhere close to being considered a blue-blood in college football. Not even close. They are an elite program right now but not even in top 15 or top 20 all time. Duke has been good at basketball a lot longer than 2 decades. K was there nearly 40 years.

How much of that spreadsheet accounts for pre-class football? I think you need at least 4-5 decades of some kind of sustained success if you’re trying to define a blue-blood program. I realize that may not be possible in Indiana high school football given all the consolidations and closures of schools over the years, but I don’t think recent success is necessarily a strong indicator of blue-blood status. There’s no question that a school like Center Grove is the premier football school in the state of Indiana right now. But historically, not sure I’d even consider them to be a top 10 big class program as it stands now. 20-30 years from now that may be a different story.

Where do you put a school like Evansville Reitz when it comes to blue-blood status? Evansville Reitz been playing football forever and has a ton of mythical (and legit) state titles pre-IHSAA era and at one point (not sure still this case) had the 2nd most wins in Indiana History. Won a few state titles this century as well.

That's how I interpret it as well and why some people still consider Indiana basketball a blue blood. Championships in 4 different decades spanning multiple coaches. They haven't been great the last 25 years, but I think it takes a hell lot longer than 25 years to establish blue-blood status and should take every bit as long, if not longer, to lose it.

Luers has to be on that list as well. Too tough to do a a true blue blood list in high school football. Too many classes therefore too many titles to go around. Blue-blood status is an extremely exclusive title.

Don't think it's crazy. North Davies moving to 2A likely puts them in a sectional with Linton-Stockton and then a regional with Providence (defending 2A champ). Both Linton and Providence finished with better Sagarin ratings as 2A schools and than any team they'd face in a potential 3A sectional or regional.

Believe Mishawaka did right when the IHSAA implemented its 6th class. It was before teams like Cathedral, Dwenger, etc were regularly cycled up to 5A and were still in 4A. Mishawaka avoided northern powers like Lowell and Dwenger. 4A was stronger at the time than the new look 5A featuring 32 teams, especially in the North half of the bracket.

Best class in terms of parity if you ask me. Cathedral, Roncalli, Dwenger, Columbus East, Reitz, Lowell all very strong.

Be careful Bob. Beating Ohio State for the first time in a decade has brought out the worst in some Michigan fans. And they got their Michigan Man back.

Be interesting to see the new 6A South sectional alignment. Cathedral in a sectional with LC, LN, and North Central likely ensures the Irish will remain in 6A on an almost permanent basis (nothing wrong with that either). 4A would have been a good barometer for Chatard. New Pal (I believe) will be loaded the next year or two and Kokomo bumping down strengthens 4A which in my opinion has been one of the weaker classes for sometime.

Lived right on the Hamilton/Marion Co border. Always considered Carmel a suburban school, HSE and Noblesville were all big 5A enrollment schools within Hamilton Co. Hell I considered both Lawrence Schools and North Central suburban schools back then, though it has definitely changed in the last 10 years. Carmel has almost always gone north in the state tournament in every sport and is almost always in sectionals with their Hamilton Co brethren.

Hmmm. I was in high school from 04-08 and definitely lumped Carmel in with the other Hamilton County schools before I associated them with the Ben Davis' and Warren Central's of the world, regardless of conference affiliation. HSE had well over 3k kids when they split after the 06-07 school year and would have been considered a mega-school enrollment back then.

Carmel?