HoosierFB_JG

Becoming an independent may sound like a viable option, and it's not to say this isn't an option, but this makes for a scheduling nightmare by becoming an independent. The reality is, if you make Carmel an independent, you'll still (most likely) play MIC teams during the MIC nonconference schedule, or potentially some MIC/some HCC. This is 3 games (now that there would be 7 teams). The remaining 6, well the HCC is out because they're in conference play, and the rest of Indiana (besides Cathedral, MAYBE Chatard, MAYBE Penn but doubtful on the last two) won't want to play Carmel on an annual basis. Let's say Cathedral does jump on the Carmel train, that's 4 games on the schedule. Who else does Carmel play? Now, while Carmel Clay has a decent sized budget for athletics, you're most likely at this point having to play, at minimum, 4 games against out of state teams. All that scheduling has to line up. It's just a big hassle. Now, as we know, football is the only sport where this is tough. This isn't an issue in any other sport besides football, but for that reason alone, I don't see Carmel bailing. It's a bit easier for Cathedral due to having a larger pool of teams they can play from Indiana annually (for example: Cathedral has played Brebeuf, Jeffersonville, Chatard, East Noble, Tech, Mishawaka since 2016, all teams that would not want to schedule Carmel, maybe except for Chatard, which is still doubtful.) As a parent, I'm against leaving the MIC. If I were an administrator, I do believe seeking competitive balance in golf, swimming, tennis, cross country at Carmel is MUCH NEEDED, but in the meat of our budget sports (FB, BBB, GBB), we have certainly not outgrown or outclassed the rest of the MIC. -

Howe closed at the end of the school year and Manual most likely won’t have football this year as they’ve been turned back over to IPS control now and are no longer a charter school. They’re no longer accepting new students and will soon be closing.

Smart

THANK YOU! DT is nothing more than a keyboard warrior and this board would be better off without him. I’ve never seen someone criticize programs/coaches/young adults the way he does. He needs to go.

So then Carmel and Center Grove aren’t getting the most out of what they have in their talent pool and BD and WC are. Thats saying something folks!

WHAT? In the last 3 years: Center Grove 23-16 Ben Davis 25-12 Warren Central 29-8 Do you just say the first thing that comes to your mind? I fully believe, that without Carson Steele, Ben Davis wins the semi-state and beats Carmel in the title game (better matchup), so how can you say they’re slipping? They lost 52 seniors from 2017 and had a new coach. Historically great teams and great coaches will do that. Warren, historically great in 2018, loses a loaded lineup and still gets into the regional. They were one year removed from losing over 40 seniors. You didn’t ask why CG was slipping when they lost a loaded senior class from 2016 and had a lousy 2017 season, so why stir the pot with Warren and BD? They aren’t going anywhere though I know you’re desperate for them to fall back so you can make your point about the MIC and HCC. It’s the MIC, it’s unforgiving that you’re in rebuilding mode when everyone should be in reloading mode. Happened to Center Grove in their 6-6 2017 season and to Carmel in their 8-5 2017 season. I think BD and Warren are allowed the same kind of grace. BD was driving and simply fell short in a 1 TD loss to CG in the semi-state this past year. Finally, I believe the Sagarin tells all: 2017 Sagarin Ben Davis 1 Warren Central 2 Center Grove 4 Carmel 13 2018 Sagarin Warren Central 1 Center Grove 2 Carmel 5 Ben Davis 9 2019 Sagarin Carmel 1 Center Grove 4 Ben Davis 5 Warren Central 6 Didn’t hear you when the 2017 Greyhounds were 13. Funny enough, the average for these 3 years: WC 3, CG 3.3, BD 5, Carmel 6.3 Carmel I guess should look toward playing in another conference, they seem to be slipping.

The late Jermell Whorton rushed for 250 yards and 5 TD’s in the 2002 Regional win for Ben Davis over previously unbeaten Warren Central 35-28.

Reitz, I believe it was 61 Ben Davis 91, Ben Davis 17, Warren 06 are the best 3 in my opinion, with Ben Davis 01 trailing slightly behind.

Funny how your tune has changed from CG and Carmel because of attendance. Now LC and LN, who don’t travel well (LN had less than 150 fans at the GBB semi state last week compared to Bedfords 1500) should join the HCC. My IQ goes down every time I read one of your posts.

Best venues in the Indy area Ben Davis (massive) 9,500 seats Carmel Warren Central Lawrence North Lawrence Central (both Lawrence renovations are very nice) Center Grove Westfield Brownsburg Decatur Central Many nice venues in the Indy area, but these places are awesome. I personally like Ben Davis facility.

Hmm, they’re doing quite well in basketball this year, best 2 teams in the state in my opinion.

That has to be Bennett. Had he really done what he wanted, public schools across Indiana would’ve been shut entirely down and every school would be charter.

Might also explain why a lot of Ohio’s schools are dumps. Obviously I haven’t seen all the schools but I’ve seen most of Dayton and it’s surrounding areas and it’s rough, but when you pay 3 principals, 9 assistant principals, multiple AD’s, multiple band directors, multiple football coaches, multiples of EVERYTHING, you lose a ton of money. Carmel, in my opinion, as well as Ben Davis, Warren, etc. all thrive because they only have 1 school system.

Serious question (as opposed to not serious 🤣) If we cut the current bottom feeders down to 280, what happens next? In a few years, teams 261-280 are the new norm to being terrible, do we cut them as well? I think if programs are ever in serious consideration of folding, there has to be some sort of checklist vs folding because of lack of being competitive. Just as there is always a team at the top, there has to be a team at the bottom.

With the amount of hate on this board recently, let’s have something that can be celebrated. Who are your top 25 programs all-time? Take some time to think this through before posting. Post based on: Quality of Wins Number of Wins Number of Titles (Sectional through State) Number of Players playing in the next level Any other factors you want to consider You don’t need to explain yourself unless you want to, it’s your opinion. We’ll then post final results of what the GID posters see as the top 25 programs of all-time on February 1, 2020

Shelbyville did not contract. I agree. Football is extremely important to many communities whether they’re struggling or not. More ridiculous posts. Extremely hard to want to post on this forum any longer when two people who always feel they’re right are on here.

CCC from my understanding wants to remain private and small.

Our crowds on the road have slowly been dwindling, to the point where we rarely have student sections on the road any longer. Most kids find other things to do, especially if they don’t have a license because their parents don’t want to drive them.

Yes, you are correct and I acknowledged this as well in a previous post.

💯💯💯

Carmel will go north before Zionsville as Zionsville will be in sectional with Avon, Brownsburg and Pike. It depends on the enrollment of the north schools at the next alignment as to what happens. You thought 6A was boring now, wait until it’s a 4+ TD blowout next year.

Pike is an A school by the DOE, the only in Marion County. There are smart kids walking the hallways. Most students walking the hallways at Pike are eligible to play sports. The biggest factors (having walked these hallways for a 3-year period in the late 00’s) are lack of interest and a number of athletes moving out of the district. Over 80% of the football program as a whole were on free/reduced lunch. In my 23 years of being around football as a coach, what a student pays for their lunch has never mattered in the overall health of a football program. Pike btw is actually getting smaller and is projected to be under 2,800 in the next decade. Ben Davis and Warren Central for that matter come from two of the poorest communities in the State of Indiana, yet have thriving athletic programs. Why? They have hard working student athletes, money invested into their programs and great coaches (two of the best strength and conditioning coaches in the country). I don’t know about BD, but I know a LARGE LARGE majority of players in the WC football program are on free/reduced lunch. Where you all should be looking is money spent and resources available at the best programs. Lake Central, Pike, Noblesville, Crown Point (has improved some in money spent), Tech, all of these programs don’t spend near the amount of money toward their program as the others are spending. None of those are the true point though as it is this is a “Big 4 Problem.” It’s not an issue for all of 6A. It’s mainly the Big 4 of the MIC (at least to this point in the tournament.) Carmel went south in 11 and 12, so if we look at 2013-2019, out of those 7 years, these 4 teams have dominated the semi-state rounds: Carmel - 7 appearances Center Grove - 6 appearances Ben Davis - 4 appearances Warren Central - 2 appearances (19 of 28, 7 is by the north regional winner, and the other 2 are by Avon) If we split the 6A tournament into 2 divisions (by the way, currently 12 Indy area teams and 4 northern Indiana meaning travel would be an absolute disaster) we would eventually get to the point of having 4 teams dominate the top division. My point is going into 2 divisions only solves the issue for schools 17-32. Over the last decade, it’s safe to say they would have had somewhere between 6-8 different winners. In the top division, it’s a proven fact that over the last 10 years the top division would have been won by Carmel 3 times, Ben Davis 2 times, Warren 2 times, CG 1 time (if we assume they’d be on top division based on success) and the others 2 times (2010 & 2012.) 2012 was a state finals by 2 6A-2 schools and CG just happened to be the next best team, so we could technically say that CG would’ve won in 2012 as well. This just comes back to the point that the issue is the Big 4. They’re dominating everyone else, and if given the opportunity, 8 out of 10 times, these teams would dominate the semi-state round. I don’t know there is a solution that is fair. If we allow teams 17-32 (oh, and if you thought travel was bad for 6A-1, you should see it for 6A-2 — that’s certainly not going to help attendance) to have their own tournament, suddenly you’re going to have multiple winners in that division and the same winners in the big division. Yes, I understand that other schools are getting better, but we can only use current data for this, and the current data shows that only 4 schools have dominated. If CG were in Division 2 all along, CG would have 9 titles, LC 1 (both MIC teams) and D1 would have 7 MIC titles, 1 by Penn (2015 loss to CG), 1 by Fishers and based on the way the tournament went in 2012, 1 by Merrillville. Again, this doesn’t support the theory that the tournament should be split into 16 teams each. At some point you have to draw the line.

I was never a janitor at Carmel, but thank you for your hard work to help keep our schools in great shape. I worked a camp with Coach Dullaghan one year and he is a wonderful person. There are a number of people on this forum who could learn a lot from Dick.

There was a BAD spot in the 4th quarter that should’ve gave BD a first down shown on the webcast. They missed it easily by a full yard. That’s all I could potentially see, but even with that said, BD would’ve still had to score and tie the game. 💯💯💯💯💯

I’m so happy for the Greyhounds and glad to see my son win a state championship.