Post Punt Rule

[Punttheball]

It is 4th and 6.  Team A is punting. Team B is the receiving team.

Team A punts, the ball is in the air, and then it rolls on the ground.  While the ball is in the air, Team B has a player blocking for a return.  He blocks the player from Team A until the whistle blows.  Team A is flagged for unnecessary roughness.  The coach of Team B is told it was "excessive blocking".  The penalty was enforced on Team B as a pre-possession foul.  The coach of Team B was told that a post-possession does not occur until Team B catches or kneels the ball down.  Team A maintains possession after the 15-yard penalty was marked off and gives Team A a first down.  The penalty was BS.  But if it was legit.  Was the penalty enforced correctly?  

[Bobref]

31 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

Team A is flagged for unnecessary roughness.  The coach of Team B is told it was "excessive blocking".  The penalty was enforced on Team B as a pre-possession foul. 

Let’s try again. Which team committed the foul?

[Punttheball]

15 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Let’s try again. Which team committed the foul?

sorry team b was penalized.

[Punttheball]

26 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Let’s try again. Which team committed the foul?

Team B was flagged.

[JustRules]

As you describe it, that sounds like a post-scrimmage kick foul. There are 5 conditions that must be met for fouls by R.

1. During a scrimmage kick play - check
2. The ball crosses the expanded neutral zone - check
3. The foul happened beyond the expanded neutral zone - check
4. Before the kick ends - check
5. K will not be next to put the ball in play - check

The foul as you described met all those criteria. Even if it was a dead ball foul, the enforcement spot would be the same since there was no return on this play. If the R player initiated that block at the line of scrimmage and kept driving the K backward, then you would not meet criteria 3 above. Then the enforcement would be correct.

[Punttheball]

13 hours ago, JustRules said:

As you describe it, that sounds like a post-scrimmage kick foul. There are 5 conditions that must be met for fouls by R.

1. During a scrimmage kick play - check
2. The ball crosses the expanded neutral zone - check
3. The foul happened beyond the expanded neutral zone - check
4. Before the kick ends - check
5. K will not be next to put the ball in play - check

The foul as you described met all those criteria. Even if it was a dead ball foul, the enforcement spot would be the same since there was no return on this play. If the R player initiated that block at the line of scrimmage and kept driving the K backward, then you would not meet criteria 3 above. Then the enforcement would be correct.

So I can understand this ruling without all the referee jargon, when does the receiving team take possession of the ball? After the punt? When the whistle blows the play dead?When it is caught?  

[Bobref]

3 hours ago, Punttheball said:

So I can understand this ruling without all the referee jargon, when does the receiving team take possession of the ball? After the punt? When the whistle blows the play dead?When it is caught?  

It’s really not that difficult. If the receivers commit a foul downfield during the kick, it’s treated as if the foul had occurred after the receivers possessed the football … which occurs when a player on the receiving team catches or recovers the kick. If accepted the penalty is enforced from either the spot where the foul occurred, the spot where the play ends, or the spot where the receivers caught or recovered the kick, whichever is more favorable to the kicking team.

[JustRules]

9 hours ago, Bobref said:

It’s really not that difficult. If the receivers commit a foul downfield during the kick, it’s treated as if the foul had occurred after the receivers possessed the football … which occurs when a player on the receiving team catches or recovers the kick. If accepted the penalty is enforced from either the spot where the foul occurred, the spot where the play ends, or the spot where the receivers caught or recovered the kick, whichever is more favorable to the kicking team.

👆👆👆

What this guy said. Technically the receiving team doesn't take team possession until they possess it as Bobref says. But for the purposes of penalty enforcement on scrimmage kick, the rules treat fouls by R after the kick as if they already have team possession as long as they still have team possession at the end of the down. That's kind of an oversimplification, but the general gist is there. The idea is to limit the number of re-kicks and also once the kicking team kicks the ball, they have essentially given up possession even though they still have team possession. The same concept exists at all levels of football.

[oldtimeqb]

On 9/28/2025 at 9:07 PM, JustRules said:

As you describe it, that sounds like a post-scrimmage kick foul. There are 5 conditions that must be met for fouls by R.

1. During a scrimmage kick play - check
2. The ball crosses the expanded neutral zone - check
3. The foul happened beyond the expanded neutral zone - check
4. Before the kick ends - check
5. K will not be next to put the ball in play - check

The foul as you described met all those criteria. Even if it was a dead ball foul, the enforcement spot would be the same since there was no return on this play. If the R player initiated that block at the line of scrimmage and kept driving the K backward, then you would not meet criteria 3 above. Then the enforcement would be correct.

Perhaps a brain teaser for you and @Bobref of a play I saw Saturday during a D3 football game. (If NFHS and NCAA rules differ, please feel free to correct me.) 

During a punt, the receiving team was called for an illegal block. It was a high kick, so the flag was thrown while the ball was still in the air. The punt returner muffed the kick and a kicking team member fell on the ball. 

This is where I was confused. The kicking team member was not happy with the illegal block and cheap-shotted an opponent. Clearly dead-ball post play foul. 

Enforcement - I think because microphone system cut out - was kicking teams ball 1st and 10, 15 yards back from the punt recovery spot. 

I think it was live-ball foul on R, muffed kick, dead-ball foul on K. But only deadball foul on K was enforced. 

Thanks for any clarification.

[Bobref]

3 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

Perhaps a brain teaser for you and @Bobref of a play I saw Saturday during a D3 football game. (If NFHS and NCAA rules differ, please feel free to correct me.) 

During a punt, the receiving team was called for an illegal block. It was a high kick, so the flag was thrown while the ball was still in the air. The punt returner muffed the kick and a kicking team member fell on the ball. 

This is where I was confused. The kicking team member was not happy with the illegal block and cheap-shotted an opponent. Clearly dead-ball post play foul. 

Enforcement - I think because microphone system cut out - was kicking teams ball 1st and 10, 15 yards back from the punt recovery spot. 

I think it was live-ball foul on R, muffed kick, dead-ball foul on K. But only deadball foul on K was enforced. 

Thanks for any clarification.

Nice question. My response is limited to high school rules.

First, you address the live ball foul by R. Because K legally recovered the kick, this is not a post scrimmage kick foul. So, K’s options are to decline the penalty and keep the ball, or accept the penalty and replay the down after enforcement of the penalty. Your hypothetical did not specify the exact nature of the penalty “illegal block,” so I can’t tell whether enforcement would be 10 or 15 yds. 

Now you address the dead ball personal foul on K. We’re going back 15 yds. and it will be 1st & 10 for K there. Sounds like they got it right.

[oldtimeqb]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Nice question. My response is limited to high school rules.

First, you address the live ball foul by R. Because K legally recovered the kick, this is not a post scrimmage kick foul. So, K’s options are to decline the penalty and keep the ball, or accept the penalty and replay the down after enforcement of the penalty. Your hypothetical did not specify the exact nature of the penalty “illegal block,” so I can’t tell whether enforcement would be 10 or 15 yds. 

Now you address the dead ball personal foul on K. We’re going back 15 yds. and it will be 1st & 10 for K there. Sounds like they got it right.

https://sports.wabash.edu/sports/2021/10/28/wabash-college-video-network.aspx?B=2829500
 

Didn’t think about the livestream but here it is. Announced as an illegal crack back block. 

https://sports.wabash.edu/sports/2021/10/28/wabash-college-video-network.aspx?B=2829500

1 hr 32 minutes into the stream. 1:29 left 2nd quarter. 

Crew huddle for quite a bit given the unusual nature but sounds like they got it right. 

[JustRules]

22 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

https://sports.wabash.edu/sports/2021/10/28/wabash-college-video-network.aspx?B=2829500
 

Didn’t think about the livestream but here it is. Announced as an illegal crack back block. 

https://sports.wabash.edu/sports/2021/10/28/wabash-college-video-network.aspx?B=2829500

1 hr 32 minutes into the stream. 1:29 left 2nd quarter. 

Crew huddle for quite a bit given the unusual nature but sounds like they got it right. 

Thanks for sharing. They did get it right. This PSK part of this is the same, but there is a difference in one aspect of enforcement between NFHS and NCAA. The R originally announces both fouls and doesn't indicate one was declined. If A accepts the blind side block, the penalty would be enforced from the previous spot with an automatic first down (that is one big difference...NFHS would not be an automatic first down, and since it was 4th and 19, the replay of the down would be 4th and 4 at the A31). If A declines the blind side block, they'll get a 1st and 10 at the B45 (same in HS). After either choice, they will enforce the unsportsmanlike conduct against A moving the 1st down back to the A40. This appears to be what they did, but the broadcast never shared the BSB was declined. That was a smart move by the coach. Another minor difference for NFHS is the late hit would be a personal foul. NCAA considers late hits that have nothing to do with the plan as unsportsmanlike conduct so it can be a counter toward ejection.