JustRules

That old stadium was one of my favorite stadiums to work. So many of the stadiums now are the same, and they had character. The ADA compliance is definitely a good thing, but having seats end zone to end zone was very cool.

That's great to hear and hopefully signs of a successful season .Football is the ultimate team sport though so they'll still need to rely on teammates and the teammates sill need to step up and perfect. When many of the Indy teams are strong, they'll have 5-6 top D1 kids, but 20 others who are good enough to play D2/D3/NAIA. How deep is North?

I love working with new officials, especially those who played and/or coached for many years. They are ALWAYS surprised by how little they knew about the rules. It's also helped me realize how little I know the rules about other sports as well. That's why I love listening to the rules analysts on baseball and basketball games or watching games with my officiating friends. I remember when I learned there is no such thing as an over the back foul or reaching in for basketball. Just another example of how fans get rules knowledge from announcers (so do players and coaches). I always appreciate the coaches who truly know the rules and players who love to ask rules questions.

That's a great approach to take! Getting upset about a bad call or perceived bad call isn't going to change anything. At the high school level, you are going to see wide variety of officiating quality. But everyone on the field is trying to do the best they can. Many perceived bad calls are the result of fans not understanding the rules. And the actual bad calls rarely are the reason for an outcome of a game. It may seem that way especially if they are poorly timed. But every play contributes to the outcome and coaches and players never have perfect games. Many sports including football are imperfect and that includes officials despite their desire to be perfect. Embrace the imperfection.

From when he started to when he left, they got much better. I never said they were better than when Bless was there. The last 3 years of Bless, they didn't have the athletes they did earlier in his career. Haston had them much more competitive his second season and an excellent team their third season. They were on pace for another very good season last year until injuries took their toll.

You are criticizing him because he lost twice to a MIC school (and one of the best programs in the state) and twice to an HCC school whose coach has won state championships at two other schools? He has also improved their non-conference schedule to push the team and it was working. Last year was going to be a very good year until they ran into injuries. I've seen CN many times over the years, and he did an excellent job. Tim Bless was also an excellent coach. CN has nothing to hang their head about. They are an excellent program. They will probably not be able to compete with the top programs in Indy very often so that is not the best litmus test on their ability.

I've known a lot of coaches that moved between many schools in the same state as they progressed but not one that went to many different states. CN improved significantly with Coach Haston. They started strong but struggled down the stretch due to injuries. They seem to have all the athletes in Columbus right now with Columbus East struggling. They will probably never compete with the big boys in Indy, but they can put together a decent 6A team that will compete with most teams.

I was working a flag game once when two defenders were following their receivers on crossing routes. They collided full speed and neither saw it coming. They were able to get up and walk away but were done for the day. I'm guessing one or both ended up with concussions. There are also incidental contact when two players are going for a pass. Contact is definitely much less than tackle football but not enough to not non-existent.

Contact is not allowed in flag football but all flag football players are required to wear mouth guards

You can believe all you want, but the video we have will never be definitive on what that official is looking at. A sideline camera from the other side of the field is not going to provide that. I'm pretty confident this play completely caught him off guard. If nobody has information on how this player got to where he did or where he came from, the result of any conversation will not result in any changes. The coaches absolutely pulled one over on the crew and the defense. It's also very possible this player did not run this play as he was taught. If he had waited until the ball was marked ready for play and then moved toward the sideline (starting inside the numbers), this could possibly have been legal. If he has lined up that deep but facing the defense and a little more on the field of play, this could have possibly been legal. The crew failed in catching this, but if you have ever officiated you would understand you will never see everything. It's physically impossible. You have to call what you see and trust your mechanics and doing the same thing every time will help prevent this. Did the R and U count the offense before the snap? Did they get 10 and wonder where the 11th was? The H doesn't count players so he has no idea if there are 10 or 11 or 12. He has other things to worry about pre-snap as well. But ultimately it's a bad miss, but it could happen to any crew. I guarantee both teams and coaches made many mistakes as well and probably more than the officials. This was not the only play that affected the outcome of the game.

What coaches tell you in pregame and how the play is actually run is very different. The line you quoted from Bobref said the coach shared the player would be inside the numbers at the RFP. Watching the broadcast you can see that was clearly not the case. If he had described it as it happened, he would have said, I'm going to run one of my players toward the sideline as soon as the play is over so nobody sees him. He's going to stop 10 yards behind the LOS and face the sideline as if he's talking to coaches. Coaches on the other side will think he's off the field and not participating. Then at the snap, he's going to turn and take off up the field for a wide open fake punt. We plan to throw him the ball. I wasn't there, but I can guarantee you that's not what he described. Remember Bobref had only seen the Hudl play and talked with the official when he wrote that first comment. The referee likely hadn't seen the broadcast video yet so he was only sharing what the coach had told him. The Hudl video often start until just before the snap so it's not going to help on where the player came from or where he was at the RFP. There is no conspiracy or gotcha moment here. The crew just plain missed it because they didn't see this player until after the ball was snapped. There is nothing more to it.

My take on watching that is he may have seen that player heading that way, but made the assumption he was coming out. Unless he paid special attention to the number, he likely has no idea it's the same guy who caught the pass. It's also very possible he wasn't watching that player closely. He really had no reason to at that point. It seems obvious to us knowing how this play ended, but I bet if you watched this live, you never noticed that player leaving immediately after the play was over. I bet you also wouldn't notice him standing there. It's so much easier to see when you watch the broadcast when you know the outcome of the play and tracked the guy backward who caught the pass. You are making a lot of assumptions on what this official did see and his rules knowledge. This referee would NOT tell any member of his crew to not call this if he saw it. He just didn't see what this player did. Big miss, and I would bet he's not happy with missing it once he saw the video. If I'm reading this topic correctly, Bobref's comments were based on what the referee knew shortly after the game before either official had seen the video. I don't know why he hasn't shared his observations since he's usually very open and honest about things like this.

That plus many other things he's doing depending on the play. He's going to be watching for any cheap stuff after the previous play. Making sure the U is spotting the ball in the correct spot. Making sure all players of A and B are not in the neutral zone. Making sure there are no more than 4 players in the backfield. If any back goes in motion making sure they don't move forward. Making sure no offensive player simulates action at the snap. If a player on the line of scrimmage shifts, they have to come to a complete stop for 1 second before the snap or be in motion at least 5 yards behind the LOS. Determining his initial keys for eligible receivers based on the formation. And several other things depending on the circumstances of the previous play and what is happening in this particular dead ball. It's possible that player could have been in a legal position before the ball was snapped. If he came off the sideline and did that, it would absolutely be a foul. But an official has to see him do that. If he's not looking directly to his left, he has no idea where the player came from. He could have possibly been in a legal position and the defense just never covered him. This may be hard for you to accept, but 5 officials can't watch all 22 players at the same time. The R and U are counting the offense. I assume they only counted 10 because if they had seen this guy, they would have raised a red flag. But since they didn't see where he started, the can't assume he was illegal. You will probably never understand this if you have never actually officiated a game, so I'm not sure any explanation is going to make sense to you. I'm fine with that because I know how calls like this can be mixed. It's not necessarily a sign of incompetence or a sign of intentionally missing a call or not knowing the rules. You sometimes just don't see enough of something to get the call right. Football is an imperfect game. The coach tried something, and he got away with it.

I never said they got it right. You are putting words in my mouth. And you have obviously never officiated anything in your life. Just because you saw him run by you at that point doesn't mean he was illegal when he started. You are making a huge assumptions on what happened before you saw him. If you make assumption on what may have happened before the action you saw, you are going to be wrong A LOT more than right in those instances. Based on video review, this crew obviously got this wrong. But they didn't intentionally see it and not call it. They just missed a screwy play and the offense got away with it. It sucks for the crew, but don't make it something it isn't. I worked a game a couple years ago and the team often started two backs 10 yards behind the LOS and ran routes from there. It was odd, but the coach said it was to give them a running start before they got to the DBs. They weren't as close to the sideline as this guy, but they could have been there legally.

You can't call something you didn't see. As soon as you start making assumptions, you will be wrong 90% of the time. I had a game once where near the end of the play I hear a big crunch behind me (away from the end of the run). I turned and saw a big OL standing over a small DB and assumed he took a cheap shot on a guy that wasn't looking. But I didn't see it so I didn't flag it. I did tell the OL to be smart, and he may have gotten away with something. I got on the radio quickly to ask if anyone saw it and nobody did. When we got the video, I'm glad I didn't flag it! The DB came up to the OL and tried to hit him. The OL just put his arms up to absorb the hit and the defender went down hard. The OL did nothing wrong. Could have possibly flagged the DB for attempting a cheap hit, but he failed miserably. That would have been a terrible miss on my part. Even with 8 officials in college there are sometimes things you don't see. And a coach who would try to do that would not get away with it often. This one was likely missed because of when he ran to the sideline. The officials have other responsibilities right after the play. Next time someone may catch it, and it will get flagged. There is a little luck involved sometimes in catching things like this. Try it sometime. It will be eye opening experience.

The crew can only get together and get that right if anyone had knowledge of what that player did before the snap. If nobody was watching him specifically, they have nothing they could bring to a discussion. I have no idea what happened on the crew in this play, but just based on the video it was clear to see what that player did. What he did that truly caused it to be illegal was during the dead ball period. If the coach described the play to the crew before the game, I'm pretty sure he didn't include "one of our players will immediately run toward our sideline at the end of the previous play and will hide out next to me several yards behind the LOS."

He's probably trying to come up with an eloquent answer that tries to explain what can happen or maybe what did happen in this situation. Bottom line, this should have been called. My guess is the wing just missed him being there. He was focused on his keys on the line of scrimmage and the formation. He doesn't do a count of the offense so he wouldn't realize there were only 10 players in the middle. When that guy flashed in front of him, he has no idea where he came from so he can't assume what happened before that. He didn't intentionally see the player line up that way and choose to ignore an obvious foul. There is no conspiracy here against the receiving team. It's hard to be perfect. Sometimes calls get missed. Sometimes receivers run the wrong route. Sometimes QBs throw to the wrong spot. Sometimes defenders get burned. It's the nature of the game. No official wants to miss a call, especially one like this.

I agree with each of these as well. Works well for FCS, D2, D3, and NAIA. Plus they can be done before the NFL Playoffs start instead of competing for attention. It also reduces the number of players who feel pressured to opt out in order to transfer before the new semester starts.

Good challenges for New Pal. Those should be fun experiences for the team and prepare them even more for the tournament. Good for them for not being afraid to play anyone.

That may be the short version, but it's usually much more complex than that. I expect he'll walk us through the mechanics and who is responsible for what to catch something like that. For example, the wing on that side is the only one who will have a clue that this is happening. If he doesn't see him there until shortly before the snap, he would have no idea if he was inside the numbers at the RFP or he got there my pretending to leave as a replaced player. If he doesn't know either of those things, he can't guess and flag it. That doesn't excuse the miss, but it explains how it can happen. The wings have so much dead ball responsibility, their focus may not have been on that player at that moment.

I agree those would have created more great games. It's too bad it didn't work out. Conference realign every year, and I would expect Chatard and Roncalli to be desirable schools for most conferences. Someone mentioned geography, but Chatard and Roncalli are easier to access to most of the existing schools than Guerin or Brebeuf. I doubt geography played into it. If I had to guess, it would be bad blood with some prior recruiting instances. Brebeuf and Guerin are much less likely to get students from those communities. Chatard is close enough to Mt. Vernon while Roncalli and New Pal may have had some battles in the past. Those would have made some great matchups though!

Exactly! That is often the case. We had a coach one time tell us he was going to run a fake punt by throwing a high arching pass to a gunner. The defender on the gunner will assume it's a punt and block the kicking team player from getting to it. Since it's a pass this is DPI (NCAA has an exception on this type of play to indicate that is not DPI...NFHS does not). We told him if there was contact on the intended receiver it very well could be DPI. Just before they ran the play he told the wing official on his sideline he was going to run it. This was before the use of radios so the official had no way to discretely communicate anything to the crew. The play happens as described and the ball falls incomplete. The coach goes nuts because there is no flag. The reason? The gunner did such a good job he beat the defender and 3 or 4 steps on him. There was no contact!

I have heard these Pylon events specifically are ones to avoid. They apparently encourage taunting and celebration and that seems to feed into a frenzy that is not healthy. They also don't hold coaches and fans accountable to abuse toward officials (or probably parents to coaches). The level of talent is good, but the other stuff leads to situations like this unfortunately. Although officials don't appear to have been involved in this incident, this activity seems to jive with what I've heard about the atmosphere at these events. I never plan to work one of their events.

Any dangling mouth piece is not allowed. It needs to be in the mouth period. The rule change is more for extra things hanging off the mouth piece. The best example is having a mouth piece that looks like a baby pacifier on the outside with the hook. There may be other examples. Robert told us to enforce that last year as well although I've never seen anything like that on the field. It doesn't seem to be an issue around here.

Looks like they are playing a full MIC conference schedule next year.