Elkhart High School - Last Hope for the Great White North?

[oldunclemark]

4 minutes ago, DT said:

I think you will see Morton and Hammond Central winning sectionals and regionals in football and basketball in the near future.  That level of competition is something the current NCC needs desperately.  Give the Hammond schools a chance to fill out their athletic menus.  They will have lots of kids and resources to work with.  

We will see.   I dont see Morton kicking out Michigan City and Valparaiso in 5A Sectional 9 but you could be right.   Morton is an unknown power as of next year. Hammond is always good in boys basketball but they need to stay 4A in football.

Its no longer about 'giving them a chance'.  Nobody's holding them back. 

I assume there a pool in the new Hamond high. And a gymnastics room. 

And a softball field.

Field teams in all sports and the NCC will welcome them. 

I think the 10-team NCC is possible because a four team (Hammond, Morton, EC and Gary West Side) city conference survives only as long as Gary West Side does.

[Guest DT]

Great conversation.  Its really a question for the NCC of going big (Hammond Central and Hammond Morton) or goind small (Wheeler and Hanover Central)

For the record, I am 100% on going big.  I respect both Wheeler and Hanover programs, but neither raise the competitive profile of the NCC.  

I believe the Hammond people are very closely watching what is happening in Elkhart, and they believe they can duplicate that level of success, and very quickly.

Now if only SBSC would get their heads out of their            and follow suit!

[Guest DT]

12 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

We will see.   I dont see Morton kicking out Michigan City and Valparaiso in 5A Sectional 9 but you could be right.   Morton is an unknown power as of next year. Hammond is always good in boys basketball but they need to stay 4A in football.

Its no longer about 'giving them a chance'.  Nobody's holding them back. 

I assume there a pool in the new Hamond high. And a gymnastics room. 

And a softball field.

Field teams in all sports and the NCC will welcome them. 

I think the 10-team NCC is possible because a four team (Hammond, Morton, EC and Gary West Side) city conference survives only as long as Gary West Side does.

I dont think the NCC is as strong as you think it is.  You act as if they hold all the cards.  Munster and Highland are dying in football, which is the flagship sport.  Hobart continues to show signs that it wants to return to its former home  - just look at their non con schedule.  Andrean is really a free agent school.  KV is geographically an outlier and nobody would shed a tear if they left.  The Hammond schools are the hot new chick on the block.  They will get a lot of attention and many suitors.  They might even draw interest from an Illinois conference just across the border.

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by DT

[oldunclemark]

6 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Congrats to Hanover on being competitive in a loss to a terrible team. Also, Andrean hasn’t played Noll in football in about 5 years. Hanover beating mediocre basketball programs like Hobart and KV doesn’t impress me either. Andrean is coming off a state run recently and could be gearing up for another, and Munster is one of the best programs in state. If Lowell wants to play their own geographic rival, they can, with one of their non-conference slots. Hobart and Andrean do not want to have to play Hanover in football. I stand by my statement that Hanover would be mediocre in every sport in the NCC, they would not be able to compete with the top teams in each sport.

scarab.

Andrean and Noll were scheduled to play in football THIS year until Covid

Andrean MUST play Noll. It is ordained.  Andrea does not want to play Hanover>? Really? 

When Noll shut down their program in 2018 and 2019, the team that filled that schedule hole was Hanover. Hanover has played Andrean twice in the last 3 years....

You have a 1995 world view of Hanover in basketball.   

24-2 last year.. Won 3A Sectional 18 easily.

You 'arent impressed' You 'stand by your statement'

But would you go to Cedar Lake to see Hanover play Munster the night of Jan. 12?  Its on the schedule./

Come on, man.

[Guest DT]

Lowell wanting to play Hanover sounds about as enticing and realistic as Hobart wanting to play Calumet.  

 

[Whiting89]

2 minutes ago, DT said:

Lowell wanting to play Hanover sounds about as enticing and realistic as Hobart wanting to play Calumet.  

 

What’s wrong with those games? It’s like Purdue playing Indiana state. Not every game needs to competitive. Sometimes you want an easy game to let everyone play in. Plus on the other side the smaller schools always want to see how they stack up vs the big dogs.

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, DT said:

I dont think the NCC is as strong as you think it is.  You act as if they hold all the cards.  Munster and Highland are dying in football, which is the flagship sport.  Hobart continues to show signs that it wants to return to its former home  - just look at their non con schedule.  Andrean is really a free agent school.  KV is geographically an outlier and nobody would shed a tear if they left.  The Hammond schools are the hot new chick on the block.  They will get a lot of attention and many suitors.  They might even draw interest from an Illinois conference just across the border.

 

I dont think Hammond and Morton are attractive conference wise because of the entire 20-sport universe I keep mentioning.

 

Where else is Hammond going to play? . They will either be in the NCC or their stay in the city conference. 

They will not be going to the GSSC or the Duneland Conference and there are no other realistic options.. not even in Illinois.  You've talked many times about how fans dont cross state lines. 

 

.....and there is absolutely no chance of Hobart returning to the Duneland Conference. 

Hobart has 1,300 kids.  Valpo has 2,000 Crown Point has 2,800. Lake Central has 3,200.

Why would the DAC take them.

 

[scarab527]

5 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

scarab.

Andrean and Noll were scheduled to play in football THIS year until Covid

Andrean MUST play Noll. It is ordained.  Andrea does not want to play Hanover>? Really? 

When Noll shut down their program in 2018 and 2019, the team that filled that schedule hole was Hanover. Hanover has played Andrean twice in the last 3 years....

You have a 1995 world view of Hanover in basketball.   

24-2 last year.. Won 3A Sectional 18 easily.

You 'arent impressed' You 'stand by your statement'

But would you go to Cedar Lake to see Hanover play Munster the night of Jan. 12?  Its on the schedule./

Come on, man.

Andrean was not going to play Noll this year, regardless of covid. And I am aware Andrean played Hanover those years, and there’s a reason they took them off the schedule. As for going down to Cedartucky, well it’d take a lot more than a basketball game to get me down there. 

[Guest DT]

2 minutes ago, Whiting89 said:

What’s wrong with those games? It’s like Purdue playing Indiana state. Not every game needs to competitive. Sometimes you want an easy game to let everyone play in. Plus on the other side the smaller schools always want to see how they stack up vs the big dogs.

Ask Hobart about this after their Roncalli experience.

[scarab527]

3 minutes ago, Whiting89 said:

What’s wrong with those games? It’s like Purdue playing Indiana state. Not every game needs to competitive. Sometimes you want an easy game to let everyone play in. Plus on the other side the smaller schools always want to see how they stack up vs the big dogs.

The problem is the NCC has enough of those games to begin with. 

[oldunclemark]

5 minutes ago, DT said:

Lowell wanting to play Hanover sounds about as enticing and realistic as Hobart wanting to play Calumet.  

 

Lowell-Hanover is like LaPorte-New Prairie.  County rivals. Next door neighbors

The first Lowell-Hanover Central game will be an event. It will be sold out. You'll be there.

[Whiting89]

Since this started as an Elkhart thread that consolidated what are the feasibility of these consolidations?

hobart lake station river forest?

whiting ec?

calumet griffith?

can you think of any others?

[Guest DT]

3 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

I dont think Hammond and Morton are attractive conference wise because of the entire 20-sport universe I keep mentioning.

 

Where else is Hammond going to play? . They will either be in the NCC or their stay in the city conference. 

They will not be going to the GSSC or the Duneland Conference and there are no other realistic options.. not even in Illinois.  You've talked many times about how fans dont cross state lines. 

 

.....and there is absolutely no chance of Hobart returning to the Duneland Conference. 

Hobart has 1,300 kids.  Valpo has 2,000 Crown Point has 2,800. Lake Central has 3,200.

Why would the DAC take them.

 

No , Hobart will not be going back to The DAC.  But their hearts and minds are still there, which makes them less than 100% supportive of their current home.  

I wouldnt be surprised if Hammond were to try and pull some political strings to help them gain entrance into the NCC.  

Here is another thing to consider.  many colleges, including several Big Ten schools, are dropping select sports all together due to financial impact of the Covid virus.  This trend could very weell trickle down to high schools.  With football revenue falling to almost zero, ADs will be forced to make some tough decisions.  

[oldunclemark]

2 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Andrean was not going to play Noll this year, regardless of covid. And I am aware Andrean played Hanover those years, and there’s a reason they took them off the schedule. As for going down to Cedartucky, well it’d take a lot more than a basketball game to get me down there. 

But Hanover did play Andrean in football. Twice in the last 3 years.

You need to come to Cedar Lake, my man... Its not CedarTucky anymore. 

You said Hanover cant stay on the floor with Munster. You need to come on down!

[Guest DT]

5 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Lowell-Hanover is like LaPorte-New Prairie.  County rivals. Next door neighbors

The first Lowell-Hanover Central game will be an event. It will be sold out. You'll be there.

I just dont see it.  Lowell has plyed in a state championship game at LOS.  How do they get up to play little HC?

Now for HC, its the Super Bowl.  But its a one way street.  Its like IU vs Valpo in football.  

[scarab527]

6 minutes ago, Whiting89 said:

Since this started as an Elkhart thread that consolidated what are the feasibility of these consolidations?

hobart lake station river forest?

whiting ec?

calumet griffith?

can you think of any others?

River Forest nearly closed just a few years ago. If that happened, I’d imagine some kids would go to Hobart, some to Lake Station.  Can’t see any other consolidation happening in the area. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by scarab527

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, DT said:

No , Hobart will not be going back to The DAC.  But their hearts and minds are still there, which makes them less than 100% supportive of their current home.  

I wouldnt be surprised if Hammond were to try and pull some political strings to help them gain entrance into the NCC.  

Here is another thing to consider.  many colleges, including several Big Ten schools, are dropping select sports all together due to financial impact of the Covid virus.  This trend could very weell trickle down to high schools.  With football revenue falling to almost zero, ADs will be forced to make some tough decisions.  

I think Hobart-Lowell and Hobart-Andrean are very attractive games for Hobart.

2021 Hobart wont be the team they've been the last 2 years...and then theres all the other sports

Your final thought is possible although it might keep Hamond and Morton from beginning expensive sports like Gymnastics before it stops places like Lake Central from having them. 

But stay with what the basic need for a conference is: Guaranteed opponents at all levels. 

 

Also, Hammond might pull political strings to KEEP the city conference (Hammond, EC, West Side and Morton) together. That happened before, didnt it? 

[scarab527]

4 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

But Hanover did play Andrean in football. Twice in the last 3 years.

You need to come to Cedar Lake, my man... Its not CedarTucky anymore. 

You said Hanover cant stay on the floor with Munster. You need to come on down!

I know they did, but they took them off the schedule this year to play a team from Illinois for better competition until covid happened. And not Cedartucky anymore? Well maybe I’ll have to come give it a look after all. 

[oldunclemark]

5 minutes ago, DT said:

I just dont see it.  Lowell has played in a state championship game at LOS.  How do they get up to play little HC?

Now for HC, its the Super Bowl.  But its a one way street.  Its like IU vs Valpo in football.  

Isnt that what you want? David and Goliath

No, like IU and Ohio State!

Like the Bears and Packers!!

(maybe that's not a timely reference)😐

 

[Guest DT]

Here is my final thought on the topic.  And its a controversial one, but one that needs to be said.

The NCC needs more black athletes.

More D1 talent has come out of Hammond, Gary and East Chicago than the rest of The Region combined over the past 50 years.  Merrillville is what it is because of its exteme proximity to Gary talent.  

The NCC can become a hotbed of talent by integrating these schools into the conference.  Take a look at the Elkhart roster.  Its very mixed and loaded with talent.  The Region can do the same.  Frankly, the addition of Hammond, Gary and EC to the NCC will draw the conference very close to The DAC.  It will take some time, but the building blocks will be in place.

We are talking about a Ten Year Plan to close the gap on Indy superiority.  I cant think of a better way to improve the overall competitive environment in the conference and raise the talent bar then by bringing in these 4 schools.  All would be required to met strict entrance requirements.  Some will receive waivers (swimmimng/gymnastics, etc)  

Here is my Lake Ten

Highland

Minster

Hobart

Lowell

Andrean

KV

Morton

H Central

ECC

West Side

 

[oldunclemark]

24 minutes ago, DT said:

Ask Hobart about this after their Roncalli experience.

Dont be a prisoner of the moment, DT. You know Lowell beat Roncalli to win state

[Guest DT]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

Dont be a prisoner of the moment, DT. You know Lowell beat Roncalli to win state

These Hobart kids were in diapers back then OUM

[oldunclemark]

4 minutes ago, DT said:

Here is my final thought on the topic.  And its a controversial one, but one that needs to be said.

The NCC needs more black athletes.

More D1 talent has come out of Hammond, Gary and East Chicago than the rest of The Region combined over the past 50 years.  Merrillville is what it is because of its exteme proximity to Gary talent.  

The NCC can become a hotbed of talent by integrating these schools into the conference.  Take a look at the Elkhart roster.  Its very mixed and loaded with talent.  The Region can do the same.  Frankly, the addition of Hammond, Gary and EC to the NCC will draw the conference very close to The DAC.  It will take some time, but the building blocks will be in place.

We are talking about a Ten Year Plan to close the gap on Indy superiority.  I cant think of a better way to improve the overall competitive environment in the conference and raise the talent bar then by bringing in these 4 schools.  All would be required to met strict entrance requirements.  Some will receive waivers (swimmimng/gymnastics, etc)  

Here is my Lake Ten

Highland

Minster

Hobart

Lowell

Andrean

KV

Morton

H Central

ECC

West Side

 

Gary West Side may not be open in 5 years.....

You might want to check the rosters of Lowell and Crown Point.  A photo check. 

Youre like Scarab...He thinks Jed Clampett still lives in Cedar Lake

Times have changed...Despite a speed bump in 2020, I am a witness...

 

[oldunclemark]

5 minutes ago, DT said:

These Hobart kids were in diapers back then OUM

But it happened..didnt it?

Northwest Indiana teams dont beat the Catholic Football Mafia (Roncalli, Cathedral, Bishop Chatard) consistently because nobody beats them consistently in the post-season... 

 

Public schools wont ever beat private schools from Indy consistently.

How do I know?

You told me. 100 times.  😏

[Guest DT]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Gary West Side may not be open in 5 years.....

You might want to check the rosters of Lowell and Crown Point.  A photo check. 

Youre like Scarab...He thinks Jed Clampett still lives in Cedar Lake

Times have changed...Despite a speed bump in 2020, I am a witness...

 

But its nowhere near enough to get them anywhere near championship level.

Yes, The Region has changed culturally, demographically, religiously, socio economically, and in every way possible.

But the fact remains, it is less competitive in high school football state wide than it was 20 years ago.

Does that even matter to the local residents?

Id bet it probably doesnt, with a very few exceptions.