Elkhart High School - Last Hope for the Great White North?

[scarab527]

23 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Exactly.

Hanover Central would be 'standing room only' at Lowell for football.......Morton and Hammond would not be. 

If Lowell’s priority was selling tickets, they’d have already scheduled HC. I guarantee the coaches at Andrean, Hobart, and Lowell would much rather play the Hammond Schools than HC or Wheeler. 

6 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

No scarab;

Morton and Hammond bring no fans to Lowell. Less than 50

Not talking about fans, talking about competition. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by scarab527

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, scarab527 said:

If Lowell’s priority was selling tickets, they’d have already scheduled HC. I guarantee the coaches at Andrean, Hobart, and Lowell would much ratter play the Hammond Schools then HC or Wheeler. 

Programs have multiple priorities.

Hanover is locked into the Greater South Shore Conference league schedule.

Plus Lowell plays CP, Portage, Morton and Griffith. Lowell has played CP and Griffith since the dawn of time.  Lowell plays Morton every year.....its not either/or..

To be in a conference you have to have a lot of IHSAA sports.

I believe Hanover and Wheeler , as vito said,  has more competitive sports than Hammond does.

[oldunclemark]

14 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

 

Not talking about fans, talking about competition. 

Lowell has played Morton every year for 15 years.......What are we talking about? 

[scarab527]

20 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Programs have multiple priorities.

Hanover is locked into the Greater South Shore Conference league schedule.

Plus Lowell plays CP, Portage, Morton and Griffith. Lowell has played CP and Griffith since the dawn of time.  Lowell plays Morton every year.....its not either/or..

To be in a conference you have to have a lot of IHSAA sports.

I believe Hanover and Wheeler , as vito said,  has more competitive sports than Hammond does.

 

17 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Lowell has played Morton every year for 15 years.......What are we talking about? 

The original conversation has been sidetracked by this discussion of Lowell playing Hanover, which I’ll still say could get done, Lowell doesn’t have to play Portage, and Hanover has out of conference game slots available, the GSSC is not a closed conference. Also, if I remember right, Lowell only ever plays Morton in the playoffs, which won’t happen now that Morton will be in 5A. I’m sure Lowell would rather play Morton in the regular season than Portage or Griffith. But back to the original conversation, we were talking about the entirety of the NCC and whether the Hammond schools or HC and Wheeler would be a better fit. The NCC is a mid-large school conference of 4/5A teams with P/P Andrean. Hanover and Wheeler are 3 and 2A, respectively. They would be doormats in probably every sport in the NCC. They would never contend in football. Whereas Morton would be a great addition to the conference in football, and they have good girls/boys basketball programs. What Hammond Central’s level of play in sports will be is yet to be seen, but I would find it hard to believe if they weren’t at worst as competitive as Hanover or Wheeler would be. From a size perspective, and very likely a competition perspective, adding the Hammond schools to the NCC makes much more sense than Hanover or Wheeler.

[Guest DT]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

Exactly.

Hanover Central would be 'standing room only' at Lowell for football.......Morton and Hammond would not be. 

You just might see a football renaissance in Hammond.  If they take it seriously and hire the right people, Central and Morton could ber very solid contributors to Region football.

[Guest DT]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

There probably wont be an 8-team conference but maybe 2 divisions. That would be 7 league games.  I doubt anybody wantsthat.

What about...

NCC SOUTH

4A Kankakee Valley

4A Lowell

3A Hanover Central

4A Hobart

2A/3A ? Andrean

 

NCC NORTH

5A Munster

4A Highland

5A Morton

5A/4A Hammond

4A East Chicago

I like this , but throw out the divisiona and just make it a 10 team round robin conference.  That way each school is guaranteed a full 9 game schedule every year.  

Some rivalries will be lost

Lowell - Crown Point

Munster - Lake Central

Hobart vs The DAC

KV vs Renseltucky

But the overall benefits of scheduling simplicity and playing schools of like size overcomes the rivalry losses, in my view

I like it.

Call it what it is  The Lake Ten

 

[scarab527]

4 minutes ago, DT said:

I like this , but throw out the divisiona and just make it a 10 team round robin conference.  That way each school is guaranteed a full 9 game schedule every year.  

Some rivalries will be lost

Lowell - Crown Point

Munster - Lake Central

Hobart vs The DAC

KV vs Renseltucky

But the overall benefits of scheduling simplicity and playing schools of like size overcomes the rivalry losses, in my view

I like it.

Call it what it is  The Lake Ten

 

Closed conferences are boring. 

[Guest DT]

13 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Closed conferences are boring. 

I dont disagree, but times are changing.  Schools dont want to travel like they used to.  COVID has had a major impact on ADs and scheduling.  They want simplicity and certainty.  Most of the non con matchups are poor matchups anyways.  Highland has been playing Crown Point and Portage in week one on and off for the past decade and thay always lose by 4 touchdowns.  KV should be looking for bigger competition than 2A RENS.  Munster and Lake Central have both lost interest in football so that game is meaningless.  Hobart-Merrillville and CP-Lowell are good games but you have to sacrifice something to get the full round robin.  

[LaSalle Lions 1976]

I find it hard to believe that posters can't stay on topic for more than a page.  This was about Elkhart football.  I guess no one wishes to talk about St. Joe Valley (South Bend-Mishawaka-Oscola-Elkhart) football.

[scarab527]

10 minutes ago, DT said:

I dont disagree, but times are changing.  Schools dont want to travel like they used to.  COVID has had a major impact on ADs and scheduling.  They want simplicity and certainty.  Most of the non con matchups are poor matchups anyways.  Highland has been playing Crown Point and Portage in week one on and off for the past decade and thay always lose by 4 touchdowns.  KV should be looking for bigger competition than 2A RENS.  Munster and Lake Central have both lost interest in football so that game is meaningless.  Hobart-Merrillville and CP-Lowell are good games but you have to sacrifice something to get the full round robin.  

I still feel like Andrean, Hobart, and Lowell gain enough from their non-conference games that they’d resist an attempt to go to closed, round robin format, even though it would be simpler and reduce travel. 

 

3 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

I find it hard to believe that posters can't stay on topic for more than a page.  This was about Elkhart football.  I guess no one wishes to talk about St. Joe Valley (South Bend-Mishawaka-Oscola-Elkhart) football.

In all fairness, most of the posters posting in this thread are Region guys. 

[Guest DT]

1 hour ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

I find it hard to believe that posters can't stay on topic for more than a page.  This was about Elkhart football.  I guess no one wishes to talk about St. Joe Valley (South Bend-Mishawaka-Oscola-Elkhart) football.

I tried   LOL

[Guest DT]

1 hour ago, scarab527 said:

I still feel like Andrean, Hobart, and Lowell gain enough from their non-conference games that they’d resist an attempt to go to closed, round robin format, even though it would be simpler and reduce travel. 

 

In all fairness, most of the posters posting in this thread are Region guys. 

Well if we could get Highland, Munster and the new Hamond school to play like big boys the conference would be much more interesting.

[scarab527]

47 minutes ago, DT said:

Well if we could get Highland, Munster and the new Hamond school to play like big boys the conference would be much more interesting.

I wouldn’t hold my breath on Highland. That program hasn’t been able to get on the right direction forever it seems like. Shame to see what’s happened to Munster. 

[oldunclemark]

3 hours ago, scarab527 said:

 

The original conversation has been sidetracked by this discussion of Lowell playing Hanover, which I’ll still say could get done, Lowell doesn’t have to play Portage, and Hanover has out of conference game slots available, the GSSC is not a closed conference. Also, if I remember right, Lowell only ever plays Morton in the playoffs, which won’t happen now that Morton will be in 5A. I’m sure Lowell would rather play Morton in the regular season than Portage or Griffith. But back to the original conversation, we were talking about the entirety of the NCC and whether the Hammond schools or HC and Wheeler would be a better fit. The NCC is a mid-large school conference of 4/5A teams with P/P Andrean. Hanover and Wheeler are 3 and 2A, respectively. They would be doormats in probably every sport in the NCC. They would never contend in football. Whereas Morton would be a great addition to the conference in football, and they have good girls/boys basketball programs. What Hammond Central’s level of play in sports will be is yet to be seen, but I would find it hard to believe if they weren’t at worst as competitive as Hanover or Wheeler would be. From a size perspective, and very likely a competition perspective, adding the Hammond schools to the NCC makes much more sense than Hanover or Wheeler.

No scarab....for the record....

Lowell and Morton have met in the regular season every year since 2004...not counting this season...it is a regularly scheduled game. They meet twice in  many seasons. They cant play Morton any more than they already do. 

 

..and you may have a slightly out-of-date view of Hanover Central

Hanover was 24-2 in basketball last year and they beat Morton by 33

Hanover beat Munster by 33 in football and was 9-2/

I believe that Hanover has 19 IHSAA sports....no gymnastics.

Hanover has won state in softball and has been to the state finals in baseball/ they would not be doormats. Hanover is strong in tennis and they were section champs in boys basketball. Only Covid stopped them. 

 

 

Conferences are not 100% about being competitive/ Its whether you field teams in all sports. 

I think Hanover and Wheeler have more sports teams than Hammond and Morton do,. 

[scarab527]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

No scarab....for the record....

Lowell and Morton have met in the regular season every year since 2004...not counting this season...it is a regularly scheduled game. They meet twice in  many seasons. They cant play Morton any more than they already do. 

 

..and you may have a slightly out-of-date view of Hanover Central

Hanover was 24-2 in basketball last year and they beat Morton by 33

Hanover beat Munster by 33 in football and was 9-2/

I believe that Hanover has 19 IHSAA sports....no gymnastics.

Hanover has won state in softball and has been to the state finals in baseball/ they would not be doormats. Hanover is strong in tennis and they were section champs in boys basketball. Only Covid stopped them. 

 

 

Conferences are not 100% about being competitive/ Its whether you field teams in all sports. 

I think Hanover and Wheeler have more sports teams than Hammond and Morton do,. 

I stand corrected on Lowell/Morton then, but Andrean and Hobart would benefit from playing them. This move would be about much more than Lowell, I don’t know why you’re so fixated on then. And Hanover beating Munster means nothing, they were one of the worst teams in the entire state. Hanover also lost to an absolutely terrible Portage team this year. They went 9-2 playing an utterly terrible schedule. They would not be able to compete with Andrean, Hobart, or Lowell in football. I doubt they could compete with Munster or Andrean in basketball. They might not be a doormat, but they’d be mediocre at best. 

[oldunclemark]

2 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

I find it hard to believe that posters can't stay on topic for more than a page.  This was about Elkhart football.  I guess no one wishes to talk about St. Joe Valley (South Bend-Mishawaka-Oscola-Elkhart) football.

Lion, There's no debate that with almost 3,500 teens, Elkhart will do well, is there?

The paralell between Memorial and central was Morton and Hammond.

 

That's called a fork in the road!!😁

 

 

[Guest DT]

4 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

No scarab....for the record....

Lowell and Morton have met in the regular season every year since 2004...not counting this season...it is a regularly scheduled game. They meet twice in  many seasons. They cant play Morton any more than they already do. 

 

..and you may have a slightly out-of-date view of Hanover Central

Hanover was 24-2 in basketball last year and they beat Morton by 33

Hanover beat Munster by 33 in football and was 9-2/

I believe that Hanover has 19 IHSAA sports....no gymnastics.

Hanover has won state in softball and has been to the state finals in baseball/ they would not be doormats. Hanover is strong in tennis and they were section champs in boys basketball. Only Covid stopped them. 

 

 

Conferences are not 100% about being competitive/ Its whether you field teams in all sports. 

I think Hanover and Wheeler have more sports teams than Hammond and Morton do,. 

Wheeler is a 2A school.  Why would you want a 2A school in a conference populated with 4A and 5A schools?  

Does Hanover project to 4A eventually?

Why not invite Hanover and both Hammond schools and go to 9, or add ECC and make it 10.  Andrean will likley grow to 3A when they get to Crown Point new campus.  

Then you have a very strong conference :

3A    Andrean

4A   Hanover (projected) Highland, Lowell, Hobart, KV, EC

5A   Munster, Morton, Hamm Central

This would be a very similar makeup to the two best conferences in tne state, the SAC and the SIAC.

 

 

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, scarab527 said:

I stand corrected on Lowell/Morton then, but Andrean and Hobart would benefit from playing them. This move would be about much more than Lowell, I don’t know why you’re so fixated on then. And Hanover beating Munster means nothing, they were one of the worst teams in the entire state. Hanover also lost to an absolutely terrible Portage team this year. They went 9-2 playing an utterly terrible schedule. They would not be able to compete with Andrean, Hobart, or Lowell in football. I doubt they could compete with Munster or Andrean in basketball. They might not be a doormat, but they’d be mediocre at best. 

 

You said Hanover would be doormats in a league with Munster, Andrean, KV, Hobart, Highland and Lowell.   I dont know why they are doormats to you... on them

 Hanover lost 46-44 to Portage and gained 600 yards.  That's competitive. 

And being in a conference Is not all about football.

Hanover and Lowell are sister schools, scarab. Hanover is the old Lowell school district

Hanover is Lowell's natural and geographic rival  They are a better fit with Lowell and KV than Morton is .  Andrean plays Bishop Noll. They would be OK playing Hanover.

Basketball ? Hanover beat KV twice last year in boys ball and they beat Hobart by 13

You're going to have to come into the present day with me on Hanover Central athletics

Hanover is not mediocre and they have all the sports. Morton and Hammond, as of now, do not.

That's why Hanover fits in the Northwest Crossroads Conference, which was the discussion here once we hijacked it from Elkhart talk.

[Guest DT]

4 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

 

You said Hanover would be doormats in a league with Munster, Andrean, KV, Hobart, Highland and Lowell.   I dont know why they are doormats to you... on them

 Hanover lost 46-44 to Portage and gained 600 yards.  That's competitive. 

And being in a conference Is not all about football.

Hanover and Lowell are sister schools, scarab. Hanover is the old Lowell school district

Hanover is Lowell's natural and geographic rival  They are a better fit with Lowell and KV than Morton is .  Andrean plays Bishop Noll. They would be OK playing Hanover.

Basketball ? Hanover beat KV twice last year in boys ball and they beat Hobart by 13

You're going to have to come into the present day with me on Hanover Central athletics

Hanover is not mediocre and they have all the sports. Morton and Hammond, as of now, do not.

That's why Hanover fits in the Northwest Crossroads Conference, which was the discussion here once we hijacked it from Elkhart talk.

I think Hanover is still 5 years away, but sometimes its better to jump in before you are fully ready.  

[oldunclemark]

14 minutes ago, DT said:

Wheeler is a 2A school.  Why would you want a 2A school in a conference populated with 4A and 5A schools?  

Because they have all the sports, DT.  Hammond does not have softball and barely has baseball. You know how conferences work.

When you sign on in my league, I was to play your varsity, your JV and your freshman team.

If you dont have a freshman team, I've got to scramble for a game or take an idle day. No good.

14 minutes ago, DT said:

Does Hanover project to 4A eventually?

Not that I know of.  Hanover has 750 kids and they are growing. But KV is at 1000

14 minutes ago, DT said:

Why not invite Hanover and both Hammond schools and go to 9, or add ECC and make it 10.  Andrean will likely grow to 3A when they get to Crown Point new campus.  

Then you have a very strong conference :

3A    Andrean

4A   Hanover (projected) Highland, Lowell, Hobart, KV, EC

5A   Munster, Morton, Hamm Central

This would be a very similar makeup to the two best conferences in tne state, the SAC and the SIAC.

Play in 2 divisions....like the NIC     That could work. 

14 minutes ago, DT said:

 

 

 

[Guest DT]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

Because they have all the sports, DT.  Hammond does not have softball and barely has baseball. You know how conferences work.

When you sign on in my league, I was to play your varsity, your JV and your freshman team.

If you dont have a freshman team, I've got to scramble for a game or take an idle day. No good.

Not that I know of.  Hanover has 750 kids and they are growing. But KV is at 1000

Play in 2 divisions....like the NIC     That could work. 

 

I think you will see Morton and Hammond Central winning sectionals and regionals in football and basketball in the near future.  That level of competition is something the current NCC needs desperately.  Give the Hammond schools a chance to fill out their athletic menus.  They will have lots of kids and resources to work with.  

[oldunclemark]

2 minutes ago, DT said:

I think Hanover is still 5 years away, but sometimes its better to jump in before you are fully ready.  

   True and True.

 I know you know.  You have to move when  the schedule hole is there.

New Prairie joined the NIC and got hornswaggled 42-3 this year by Penn. But they're in the NIC

The only Cedar Lake relevant football question is,  Is Hanover ready to play Lowell.

When Hanover restarted their program, I thought it would take 10-15 years before they could compete with Lowell.

Its been 7 years.

 

By the way, Wheeler played Lowell last year.   The final was 26-13

[scarab527]

10 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

 

You said Hanover would be doormats in a league with Munster, Andrean, KV, Hobart, Highland and Lowell.   I dont know why they are doormats to you... on them

 Hanover lost 46-44 to Portage and gained 600 yards.  That's competitive. 

And being in a conference Is not all about football.

Hanover and Lowell are sister schools, scarab. Hanover is the old Lowell school district

Hanover is Lowell's natural and geographic rival  They are a better fit with Lowell and KV than Morton is .  Andrean plays Bishop Noll. They would be OK playing Hanover.

Basketball ? Hanover beat KV twice last year in boys ball and they beat Hobart by 13

You're going to have to come into the present day with me on Hanover Central athletics

Hanover is not mediocre and they have all the sports. Morton and Hammond, as of now, do not.

That's why Hanover fits in the Northwest Crossroads Conference, which was the discussion here once we hijacked it from Elkhart talk.

Congrats to Hanover on being competitive in a loss to a terrible team. Also, Andrean hasn’t played Noll in football in about 5 years. Hanover beating mediocre basketball programs like Hobart and KV doesn’t impress me either. Andrean is coming off a state run recently and could be gearing up for another, and Munster is one of the best programs in state. If Lowell wants to play their own geographic rival, they can, with one of their non-conference slots. Hobart and Andrean do not want to have to play Hanover in football. I stand by my statement that Hanover would be mediocre in every sport in the NCC, they would not be able to compete with the top teams in each sport.

[Guest DT]

4 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

   True and True.

 I know you know.  You have to move when  the schedule hole is there.

New Prairie joined the NIC and got hornswaggled 42-3 this year by Penn. But they're in the NIC

The only Cedar Lake relevant football question is,  Is Hanover ready to play Lowell.

When Hanover restarted their program, I thought it would take 10-15 years before they could compete with Lowell.

Its been 7 years.

 

By the way, Wheeler played Lowell last year.   The final was 26-13

Id rather see a strong Wheeler in 2A vs a Highland like weak Wheeler in 4A.  

[scarab527]

7 minutes ago, DT said:

I think you will see Morton and Hammond Central winning sectionals and regionals in football and basketball in the near future.  That level of competition is something the current NCC needs desperately.  Give the Hammond schools a chance to fill out their athletic menus.  They will have lots of kids and resources to work with.  

Exactly. The NCC has huge competitive balance issues in multiple sports, and without addressing these issues, I could see the conference dissolving soon.