BLACKGOLD2007

Well, the beauty of it is, Snider may bounce up and down between 5A and 6A if they hit the success factor, but when it comes to the far northern teams. Penn, Warsaw, Elkhart and the DAC schools Carroll is on the path to be that team that reps the area of the state in semi state for the foreseeable future. Penn was in Semi-state in 2011 and 2013-2017. That is a strong stretch of football where Penn had a stranglehold on the DAC and sectionals 1 and 2. Carroll could do this, their biggest threats right now are Jeff and CP.

Not sure if you guys were at that game, but Penn packed it in early that night. CG's best play that night was their last play which almost led to a score. Gees was not a fan of running up scores on teams.

WOOF 4 year series between CG and Carroll....Carroll's AD is going for the top fish in the sea!

Well, I think getting beat by Cathedral snapped Center Grove back into reality. To be fair the South is more of a meat grinder than the north in 6A. Carroll, if their trend upward continues, looks to be the new Penn, where they will be looking at Semi-State each year. The game against CG was a perfect storm, Carroll's first ever state appearance vs 4 in a row for CG. How do you overcome that kind of confidence when the seniors can say we have been to state four years in a row. I think CG is the top program in the state and has been that way for the last 10 seasons, maybe more. Center Grove will always be a strong favorite over any team from the far north.

Well, we haven't been to state in a while but, it will be interesting to see how they turn out for the first Mishawaka game since Waka left for the NLC. I think games against teams like St. X are great and all, but it does not do anything for the fan base, because they probably assume we will get demolished. But, games like Snider were always exciting regular season or playoffs. I would be interested in seeing Penn play Dwenger and Snider more often, at least we would get a taste of what Carroll is playing each year.

I mean, I could have easily thrown Penn in there...being a homer and all, but the last 3/4 seasons really kill that mood. (2 appearances (combined loss total of 91-30 with 3 regional championships.) It is comparable to a couple of the schools up there. (I only highlight the score issue, because it makes me mad) With the Fort Wayne Schools I love Snider, but in the last 10 seasons they have won 1 title and their loss to LC was season 11. Dwenger, I will admit, I missed that one.

I was flipping between two sites, and man I will tell you the names started to blend after a while. In regards to the small schools in 1A and 2A, I am just not familiar enough. So, I could have curbed it by saying like 3A and up programs. That might have been more fair. Idk.. Not perfect, but interesting to do.

So, I am going to try my hand at this. I am going by just the last ten seasons. 1. Center Grove (Has been in 6 out of the 10 state title games, 4 wins) 2. Cathedral (Won 4 titles in 5A, and been competitive in 6A) 3. Chatard (4 state title wins in last ten seasons in 3A) 4. Carmel (Has been to 5 state title games in last 10 seasons, winning 2) 5. Westfield (Has been in 4 state title games total, winning 1 in 5A, 2 appearances in 5A and 2 in 6A) 6. New Palestine (Has 4 state appearances, 3 wins and 1 Regional championship) 7. Ben Davis (Has 2 state title wins and 4 Regional championships) 8. Columbus East (Has 3 states, 2 wins and 2 Regional championships, in 4A and 5A) 9. Valparaiso (Has 2 total appearances, 1 win and 2 Regional championships) 10. Evansville Mater Dei (3 state appearances, 2 wins and 1 Regional championship) **The notation of Regional Champ is for seasons that ended in Semi-State, the years the teams won or appeared in state is not included in those numbers

It really does depend on the distance of the game, how the season is going and/or if they actually have a chance at winning...those are the three benchmarks that will determine if Penn travels well. There are home games the students don't even show up for. It could just be a cycle, idk but it is frustrating. I remember when we went 10-2, in that year we beat Ben Davis, Valpo and Toledo Central Catholic....but lost two games to Mishawaka....then went 7-5 the next season again losing to Mishawaka twice...I thought the sky was falling then...Having 3 seasons of around .500 football had my family considering not getting season tickets anymore. I adopted the fan of the game mentality with the NFL, I just cannot care enough with that league.. I am more fluid with college, but I plant my flag in the ND section first. High School, since we are surrounded by rivals, schools I love to hate, I struggle cheering for them. I find myself paying attention to Snider, the DAC schools and the Indy teams each week.

What happened to Carroll in the state game is what unfortunately happens often to 6A schools from the more northern parts of the state. It however, does not reflect poorly on Carroll. They realized that you have to play teams from central Indiana to have a measuring stick as to where you are that season and where you might need to be to win state. Penn utilized their rivalry with Ben Davis as a measuring stick for years. I am very interested to see how Carroll handles weeks 1 and 2 this season.

Penn cannot run laterally, they try to run zone plays and get blown up in the back field. I would implement trap schemes and run the ball down hill. Penn dominated teams locally and for a stretch in the DAC by running right at other teams. When I was playing we told the defenses locally where we were going with the ball, and still ran it down their throat. When you go left and right in the back field and your name is not Sanders, it typically doesn't end well. Penn can run trap schemes from different formations and even their current set of formations. They just choose not to. The only thing I would consider differently on D is maybe going to a 3-4. Why is it that the 6th largest school that should have a good selection of athletic young men cannot produce on offense? Coaching and play calling. I've watched the 3A title games and those teams are throwing for 300-400 yards...why is that not possible at Penn High School? We literally waisted Powlus's four years because we couldn't adapt an offense that would help the young man thrive.

Penn got beat because they were not prepared properly by the coaching staff. That has been the biggest issue in the past 5/6 seasons. In regards to semi state/state games Penn is so far behind on talent and coaching the other team can predict what we are going to do before we snap the ball. It is so frustrating

Being a former player and a fan, it is hard to watch a program that was constantly in the conversation for semi-state and state aspirations go .500. In years past I would have been loosing my mind at the thought of Penn not being higher on the list. I just cant defend it's current state of affairs.

I guess I am just so tired of the current estate of affairs.

Going by all time wins, is not always the route to judge by sustained success. There are schools that have been around a lot longer than others, but have not accomplished the things the younger schools have. Mishawaka much older than Penn. Penn has 5 states titles since the 80's Mishawaka has 0, this can also measure against a few of those other schools on that list. But, the history is interesting to see. Thank you for sharing.

I am sorry we cannot keep Penn in this group anymore....at least not in Football.

I think if Penn exits the NIC, it will be all programs. I don't think they will be allowed to be the Notre Dame of our area. But, I have been wrong many times before. Independence in football makes the most sense for what Penn wants/needs. However, if the DAC can agree to balance the conference in accordance to distance traveled to away games and competitive balance that is a strong option for Penn. If I am AD at Penn, I would push for independence, because in most sports we will continue to play the northern schools anyways. Look at the basketball and the baseball/softball schedules. The boys and girls played teams from all over northern Indiana. Penn schedule that I would look for: alternate the between two catholic schools locally, St. Joe and Marian are still rivals of Penn, no need to kill that off. - Game 5 alternate between the three remaining south bend schools. - Game 2 Mishawaka - Game 9 (always) Valpo - Game 1 (always) Team from Michigan/Ohio - Game 3 Team from Ft. Wayne - Game 6 Team from Indy - Game 4 Elkhart - Game 8 Larger school from the DAC or Lafayette area. - Game 7 This current version of Penn might not go .500 but this would be how I would like to see the schedule play out.

WHOA! That is huge info. I didn't not see Elkhart in that light, but that is sad. Elkhart has the potential to be a strong school across all sports. I hope it gets fixed asap.

To be honest Bobref, not many of the old Penn posters don't engage this site anymore. Among the falling number of fans that attend the games regularly there is unrest with the coaching overall. The defense has been fine, in the past five years it seems the D is lacking, but they cannot get a break, because the O was three and out all the time. The offensive side of the ball needs to be examined. (this past season was slightly different) I know this is arm chair quarterbacking, but when Penn was running trap blocking schemes and quick hitting runs we were a much more threatening Offense. We controlled games just by the dominance of the Offensive line. In the past five years our lateral running game ends in the backfield, we looked strongest running down hill between the tackles. Penn was dominant over the teams in the Northern part of our state because we out executed other teams, not because we were more talented.

Until Penn figures out how Offenses work, they will always be flirting with the specter of .500 football. The team returns a large number of players from last season. The defense was young(ish) and key players on O will be coming back. There is a chance Penn starts the season 1-3. With state champ Valpo returning a large core of their team from last season, which Valpo team shows up? Penn also has Mishawaka return to the schedule, I would say Mishawaka is trending upward since their move to the NLC and well Penn will not beat Cathedral in their final head to head matchup. If the NP game is out there, Penn will likely get beat. They do not play well at the Cougars home. I am excited for the schools that will be making the new conference next year. Best of luck to you all heading that direction!

But, they were at full strength against Crown Point and Merrillville, and still lost by similar outcomes?

I never said they weren't a blue blood program, I just don't think that Valpo has earned the ability to question what type of team they are going to be each year. If you had said that Valpo would win state in 5A after their second loss in a row by 20+ points not one person in the DAC or northern Indiana would have believed it. Valpo is a great program, they caught lightning in a bottle and won a title. At this point it is a matter of proving that the post season was not a fluke. As a matter of Penn, we are not anything near a program that we used to be. We aren't even favored to win most of our games anymore. The program is a shell of what it was. But, I can still cast my doubts on a team that lost to a program in decline (over the past 5/6 seasons) by 29 points. Game 1 of this season will tell you which direction the two programs will be heading. Penn likely will be 1-3 after week four. That has become the norm here in Mishawaka. It is pathetic and down right crap. A school of 3500, and cant coach a team worth watching. (Coaching is to blame not the students)

So, Valpo caught lightning in a bottle and rode it all the way to state, that is very similar to my freshmen year at Penn. I was not basing their being in the top 10 of the state on 1 game from last year. It is based on the fact that they played three games where they were handled in the regular season. The question is, which team is Valpo going to field next year, the team the won state or the team the got waxed three times in the regular seaon? We don't ask these questions about the Blue Bloods of Indy. Valpo at this point is not a shoe in for the top ten, but they are close.

Wait! We now know that by virtue of the Carroll Penn outcome that the Ft. Wayne conference was very strong, which is helped by two teams making it to the 5A and 6A semi-state games and one state finals game. IF you look at the 3 losses that Valpo had last year they were 35-6 Penn, 34-13 Crown Point and 37-10 Merrillville. Did Valpo improve from those losses to the state final...obviously. However, to conclude based on outcomes of the Ft. Wayne games that came before the Penn Carroll game, in my opinion is a stretch. Until the playoffs no one was certain how good the teams from Ft. Wayne stacked up, since they played a closed schedule. Valpo grew and avenged their loss to Merrillville, in a nail biter, then squirmed their way past a good Snider team. By outcome, yes Valpo had a much better season, but head to head Penn was the better team. We wont know if they would have beat Penn in the playoffs because they dropped to 5A (due to growing number of 6A schools around Indy).

Let's just put it into perspective, a young not experienced Penn team last year hung a W on the 5A champs 35-6. Be it first game of the season, but this year will probably be a better game, with both teams gaining experience, and Valpo finally getting that state title. We will see in the weeks coming.