BLACKGOLD2007

I personally think the @temptation does a much better job at putting together his top 25.

I guess the question is, how much does Center Grove win the state title by in the regional match up? Ben Davis v Center Grove or Brownsburg v Center Grove

Agree with this 100% The expansion and explosion of the Indy area, has forced the DAC 6A teams down into 5A, and this leaves Penn little options when it comes to in class competition. This doesn't mean that Valpo isn't a quality opponent, but the conference we play in is not helping. If we played a DAC or Summit conference schedule I would feel much better about, an 8-1 record. Penn either just needs to pull out of the NIC or as a fan we just need to accept that the school does not care about being competitive anymore. The years of the NIC producing multiple state title competitors is over. We are lucky to get 1.

https://highschool.si.com/indiana/2023/10/19/top-25-indiana-high-school-football-rankings-10-18-2023 Follow this link to the article. Just a quick rundown of where they are ranking teams....(there will be some shockers) 1 Ben Davis 2 Center Grove 3 Brownsburg 4 Crown Point 5 Westfield 6 Hamilton Southeastern 7 Fort Wayne Carroll 8 Penn 9 Chatard 10 Valpo 11 Snider 12 Fishers 13 Bloomington North 14 Cathedral 15 Bloomington South 16 East Central 17 Carmel 18 Merrillville 19 Mishawaka 20 Lawrence North 21 WL Harrison 22 Decatur Central 23 New Pal 24 Warsaw 25 Evansville Reitz What are your thoughts?

I am sorry, I have been going to these games from the time I can remember. I was at each of the three peat games, I was at the debacles to Warren, Carmel and BD. I have seen this program achieve success and lately the product on the field in the last four seasons is no where near the team that played Center Grove to a 12 point loss in the state finals. Penn with 3800 students should be able to produce talent across the board that can compete with an Indy based school year in an year out. The blow outs to top Indy teams and now Carroll last year, when that game was at Home....not acceptable. Yes Penn is 8-1...yes they beat two top 10 5A teams and a New Prairie team that could make noise in 4A, but that is not what 6A programs should be patting themselves on the back about. Winning a weak conference title is not what you pat yourself on the back about. Competing year in and year out for Semi-State title games is where this program was at, and now if we win sectionals, which has only happened 1 time out of the last 5 or 6 seasons is unacceptable, we are actually surprised. I know this thread isn't about Penn, and I am sorry this has kind of hijacked it.

Right now, I think we need someone that is younger and more innovative on the offensive side of the ball. Penn's issue right now is their lack of inspiration. Their D seems to be good year in and year out, recently their issue has been the Offense staying on the field. So, if a coaching change is not in the cards, then their needs to be a scheme change. One things kids do not like at the high school level is getting beat up on play after play, I am all for going back to the traditional ground and pound trap style of offense. scrap the lateral zone runs that end in the backfield, north and south running plays that result in 3-4 yards per play. This will allow you to run play action more effectively and when you get later in the games you can lean in on the O-line because they have just been pounding the d-line all night. The beauty is you can run aggressive downhill plays from the gun or under center, you don't have to be a 22 or 32 formation to play a physical style of ball.

Yes that does appear to be the case.

That is fair. Until Penn makes changes I think that is the case moving forward.

I think Carroll is their best competition. Because, CP like Penn look great on paper. But, don't get the jobs done.

Snider v Mishawaka matchup looks fun and the rematch battle between Valpo and Merrillville looks great as well.

I hate polls, Penn being ranked above Carroll by 40 points gives me anxiety.

I have been annoyed by how sectionals handles their home and away splits. We have had years where we would travel to the region then to Fort Wayne just to travel to the Indy area. With maybe one home game in that stretch.

If they fell in sectionals 1 or 2 they are playing in semi state.

I don't think TV is ready for the smoke that Chatard is about to bring. Chatard likely 3A state champ.

Hobart at New Prairie, 8 pm: NP needs to find their offense again. This is going to be a tight one. Hobart played a schedule that had 4 5A schools on it. Washington at Plymouth, 7 pm: Both teams played and beat Calumet, Washington went to Calumet and beat them by a similar score that Plymouth beat Calumet by while playing at home. I expect this also to be a close game. NorthWood at St. Joseph, 7 pm: Sorry St. Joe, but I don't see you winning this game. Riley at Wawasee, 7 pm: Riley gets the road win, to set up a heck of a game against Northridge. Jimtown at Fairfield, 7 pm: Jimtown has had a rough year, but maybe they can steal one away from home. Clay at Glenn, 7 pm: Glenn gets their revenge for the JV squad, wins game by half. Marian at West Noble, 7 pm: 9-0 West Noble, appears to be solid on paper. But, it is hard to judge a conference I know nothing about. I hope Marian can pull out the upset off away from home. Bremen at Bishop Noll, 7:30 pm: Bremen has had an up and down year, but I think they get their job done and punch their ticket for one more week.

The higher seed plays at home?

Thank you for the clarification. Appreciate your work.

Progress is all that matters. What is so frustrating is up here, Penn is regressing faster and faster. Our record looks great, but we are paper giants. Yes we beat two top 10 5A schools, we also beat a then top 10 4A school, but those aren't accomplishments that a 6A blue blood hangs their hat on. When we play quality opponents they drop an easy 35 on us. I look back at previous scores against Carmel, Ben Davis etc, we took them to the line time and time again....now and especially in state we get beat by 50. Now, we cannot even win sectional. in the last 5 seasons we have won 1 sectional title (because Carroll was not in it at the time).

@whiteshoes sorry, see above question.

Just curious, under the Indiana section, you included the Penn score....why?

They opened everyone's eyes. cannot do that.

My step-mother went to Westfield when it was just the little 1A school, when we drive down by the school now, she doesn't even recognize the area. It is amazing how fast the Indy area is growing still.

Agreed, I just think that this decision is going to be a true indication of where the administration stands. Drop Carmel, Penn just wants to be local champs; drop Mishawaka Penn is at least interested in testing the program against the best traditional teams in the state. Now, the next decision is to move on from the NIC, that will be the next big choice that must be made.

In 6A, I know they are going off of recent loss bias because Penn lost (badly) to Cathedral weeks ago and Carroll dropped a tough game against Snider not long ago. The gap between teams 1-4 & 6-7 and teams CP and Penn are far greater than the gaps between teams 1-4 & 6-7 and FW Carroll. I am sorry, I know CP is unbeaten, but Carroll is more battle tested than CP and Penn put together.

@Staxawax Avon lost votes! What the heck!