HoopsCoach

I like 6 team conferences and I don’t think Lebanon is a bad fit for the HHC. The combination I think would have made more sense is to have Lebanon and Danville join the larger schools of the new Hoosier Legends Conference. Bring in Martinsville, who is quickly being outgrown by the Mid-State, to get to 6. Then the smaller members of the Hoosier Legends go with a 6 team league which includes Cascade. Frankfort goes to the reduced Hoosier and the Monon Conference goes on with 6. Indiana Legends Martinsville 1281 Greenwood 1223 Shelbyville 1068 Lebanon 1067 Beech Grove 914 Danville 848 Hoosier Legends Indian Creek 652 Tri-West 610 Speedway 600 Cascade 537 Monrovia 489 Triton Central 471 Monon Crawfordsville 680 North Montgomery 547 Western Boone 519 Greencastle 497 Southmont 476 North Putnam 397 Hoosier Frankfort 922 West Lafayette 752 Twin Lakes 620 Benton Central 516 Delphi 397 Lafayette Central Catholic 300 The Hoosier Heritage Conference could then pull the two smallest remaining members of the Mid-State and send Yorktown north. The Mid-State brings in Bloomington South to join Bloomington North as a conference of 6. Hoosier Heritage Franklin Community 1531 Pendleton Heights 1502 Mt Vernon (Fortville) 1470 Greenfield-Central 1413 Mooresville 1372 New Palestine 1246 Mid-State Perry Meridian 2447 Whiteland 2135 Decatur Central 1967 Plainfield 1836 Bloomington South 1676 Bloomington North 1517

What did the folks in White County do to you to deserve that kind of name calling for the Cavaliers, and Frontier doesn’t even make the list for the conference. I know that is just a typo but it gave me a good chuckle when I read it. I like that it provides further justification for the edit feature to be enabled for more than a measly three minutes.

Cascade was an interesting choice to include in the new Monon Conference. I am sure it was based upon proximity to the other schools, but Cascade has been following a similar growth trend to the three schools the SAC members were trying to get away from. Frankfort has also experienced growth just like the exiled members, but they probably led the charge to get away from the schools with stronger athletic programs. Here is the 15 year enrollment trend for the schools (growth %). Saga-No More Danville +5.66 Lebanon +4.50 Tri-West -1.97 Monon Frankfort +4.99 Cascade +4.47 Crawfordsville +0.15 Western Boone -15.22 Greencastle -20.52 North Montgomery -25.23 Southmont -35.71 North Putnam -46.60

It’s too bad Harrison and McCutcheon are so far from the rest of the Hoosier Heritage Conference schools Lebanon is joining. They would be a pretty good fit in terms of their level of competition. Even though Yorktown is quite a bit smaller, they play above their enrollment in most sports. Very similar to West Lafayette. If the schools were not so far apart, a 12 team, 2 division conference like this could be interesting. Division 1 Harrison (West Lafayette) 2193 McCutcheon 1835 Pendleton Heights 1502 Mount Vernon (Fortville) 1470 Greenfield-Central 1413 New Palestine 1246 Division 2 Lebanon 1067 Danville 848 Yorktown 836 Western 799 West Lafayette 752 Hamilton Heights 709

The fall count day enrollments for this year have not been released by the DOE yet, but they should be available soon. I’ve posted the DOE enrollments shortly after they are released for the past several years, and I am glad to continue doing so again this year.

The 1193 for East and 2075 for North from October 2024 on that chart does not match the data they reported to the DOE (1452 for East and 2360 for North) in October 2024. The number reported to the DOE must include high school students in their other programs.

I should have clarified, my suggestion of a transfer portal multiplier would be in addition to the success factor, not eliminating the success factor in favor of the transfer portal multiplier. The transfer portal multiplier would apply to all schools, not just P/P/C, so it would equally impose an increase in the school enrollment total for each student a school chooses to accept. No penalty would be applied for students a school is required by law to accept as residents of their geographic district. This would make enrollments a closer reflection of the inherent advantages some schools have from their location in, or in close proximity to, a population center they can pull students from. Where did I say anything in my post about P/P schools deliberately keeping enrollments below a certain number to stay in a lower class? For the vast majority of schools, that isn’t the reason they decline enrollment for certain students. Non-public schools can, and do, decline enrollment for students based upon a variety of factors such as historical attendance, disciplinary incidents, academic performance, services required to be provided to the student, or a combination of those factors. If a student moves into a public school district with a history of poor attendance, bad behavior, failing grades, and also happens to have an IEP, the public school has no choice but to accept the student. Non-public schools have a choice of whether to enroll that student or not. Do you think most private schools would enroll that student? There is also an high probability that the same student is also economically disadvantaged. Would any private schools offer a voucher (if they take vouchers) to that student and accept them? Is the conversation different if the student is a good athlete? That is why I am suggesting a transfer portal multiplier that would apply to every student a school enrolls that they had a choice to accept or decline. I do like and completely agree with your suggestion of a reducer based upon the percentage of special needs and FRL students. As I said above, I would be in favor of success factor for program specific success/dominance as well as my transfer portal multiplier for geographic and admission advantages. Add in your suggestion for a reducer based upon the percentage of disadvantaged students. Put those three things together and I think it brings us much closer to a true reflection of a school’s population and competitive level.

This is just my philosophy, but my application of the multiplier for P/P/C that they have no in-district students is a way to offset the advantage of being able to choose who is permitted to attend those schools. P/P/C schools have the ability to accept/decline students from anywhere, while public schools cannot decline enrollment by students who reside in their geographic district. Basically, if the school has a choice of whether to allow a student to enroll, those students would be counted twice in my formula. Students that are entitled to attend based upon residency within the geographic district would only be counted once.

Not sure where you heard about Columbus North dropping to 5A, but it is pretty unlikely. Unless they lost around 200 students from last year to this year, they will remain in 6A. They were the 24th largest school with 2360 students. Merrillville was 32nd with 2109 students, which would be the smallest school for 6A by enrollment before any success factor moves. Columbus East had 1452 students, which would have been the 29th largest school out of 32 in 5A. Greenfield-Central was 32nd (64th overall) with 1413 students. If Columbus East has lost students this year, a move to 4A could be a realistic possibility.

I think the “transfer portal” should absolutely be weighed into the enrollment number for all schools, and the data is already somewhat available to do it. Last year, I put together an adjusted enrollment for each high school based upon the percentage of students their district receives from outside the district. I took the total enrollment of the school and added the percentage of students from outside the district to their number, which basically just counts every out-of-district student twice. As an example, if a high school had an enrollment of 400 students, and their district received 10% of their students from outside the district, then the adjusted enrollment for the school was counted as 440 students. Private, parochial, and non-public charter schools receive all of their students from outside their district since they do not have a defined district, so their enrollments have a 100% addition to their total. Since all schools, public and P/P/C, can receive and benefit from out-of-district transfers, I felt that this may be a way to add a multiplier to all schools rather than just P/P/C. The result really wasn’t a significant impact on many schools, but it did reflect some of the advantages of schools who benefit from being in a larger urban area or in close proximity to one they can receive students from. I’ve thought about posting it, but I may wait until the enrollment and transfer data for this year is posted and just include it with that data as a comparison.

Where did you find those enrollments from 1984?

It has been an option for teams to elect to play up, they just have to make it known prior to the alignment of classes. The North Daviess boys basketball team did that a few years ago. They won a state championship in 21-22 and returned all of their starters with a good chance to repeat for 22-23. However, 22-23 was a new alignment cycle and they were going to be moved to 2A by enrollment. They were not happy and felt that the IHSAA was taking away a very strong chance to win a second state championship because their enrollment really had not increased, but the shrinking of some other schools close to the 1A/2A split led to ND being in 2A. Their path to a state championship in 2A would be much more difficult than 1A (Linton, Brownstown Central, Blackhawk Christian), so somewhat in protest of being required to move to 2A, they decided to go up a class to 3A. They did end up winning a regional in 3A and lost in the first semi-state game during the 22-23 season, which was probably further than they would have advanced in 2A. The choice was probably made just to save face and have the excuse of playing up in 3A as a reason why they didn’t win a second state championship. If Chatard really chooses to stay up, that would be admirable.

The travel is prohibitive to your suggestion in my opinion. This year, you could have semi-state games between SB St. Joseph and Heritage Hills, and Knox and Gibson Southern. If you’ve read my other material, you know I am in favor of neutral sites for each round after sectional, but even with centrally located neutral sites, this would require some significant travel that deters fans from attending. Mixing things up for the regional is probably more likely and more practical, especially since the IHSAA already does it for volleyball and basketball, but I agree with Coach Nowlin, it is silly. The IHSAA does not care about travel, or the cost of travel to schools and their fans, so this is probably something they would legitimately consider. Splitting the semi-states into north and south just makes sense in Indiana because the potential north-south distances between opponents can be much greater than the east-west distances.

Personal opinion - any team that gets moved up a class (or more) and wins a sectional should not get to drop back down a class. They’ve proven they can compete and find “success” in a class above their enrollment classification. No team should be eligible to drop back down a class until they do not win at least a sectional. They should stay up until they lose a sectional. It is silly to me to let a team drop to a lower class when they’ve been winning in a higher class. Barr-Reeve’s principal was the driving force behind the rule change to 3 points so their highly successful volleyball team (which has been success factored from 1A to 3A but couldn’t win a state championship in 3A) could move back a class to 2A. Wouldn’t you know it, Barr-Reeve volleyball dropped to 2A for the current cycle, won a regional last year, and a state championship this year. Don’t be surprised if there is a push to move the point total back up to 4 points to stay up a class after the Vikings don’t win 3A the next two years.

I thought about putting Adams Central & South Adams together, and Bishop Dwenger & Bishop Luers together. I went with some combinations that have slightly better travel times. Rivals like those pairings may have some fans who will cheer for each other and other fans who would rather go sit on the side of their rival’s opponent.

On the neutral site regional topic, playing the semi-state round as 2 game double headers was mentioned. This is my suggestion for hypothetical semi-state hosts with a double header format. Saturday Afternoon/Evening - Two Games North @ Warsaw Andrean/Adams Central Knox/FW Bishop Luers @ Plymouth SB Saint Joseph/FW Bishop Dwenger Merrillville/Concord @ Marion Pioneer/South Adams Carroll/Westfield South @ Center Grove New Palestine/Bloomington South Brownsburg/Warren Central @ Shelbyville South Putnam/Milan Lapel/Brownstown Central @ Bedford North Lawrence Cascade/Gibson Southern Roncalli/Heritage Hills

As I said in my regional sites post, I am an advocate of neutral sites to host tournament games after the sectional round. I think the facilities in Indiana are capable of a format with neutral site hosts for regional and semi-state. All games would be at locations with turf fields. This can reduce travel times and limit the impact of field conditions as a variable. Just like the regionals, it would give schools an opportunity to showcase the investment they have made in their facilities. Here are my hypothetical neutral site semi-states for this year. Neutral Site Semi-States 6A Carroll/Westfield @ Marion Brownsburg/Warren Central @ Ben Davis 5A Merrillville/Concord @ LaPorte New Palestine/Bloomington South @ Franklin 4A SB Saint Joseph/FW Bishop Dwenger @ Wawasee Roncalli/Heritage Hills @ Silver Creek 3A Knox/FW Bishop Luers @ Warsaw Cascade/Gibson Southern @ Bedford NL 2A Andrean/Adams Central @ Logansport Lapel/Brownstown Central @ Whiteland 1A Pioneer/South Adams @ Huntington North South Putnam/Milan @ Triton Central

Huntington is an excellent choice. I went with Wabash for that game since it is closer to being centrally located between TL/Luers. 1 hr 25 mins to HN from Twin Lakes and only 40 minutes or so from Luers. Wabash is an hour from both schools. Either location would be an improvement compared to the 2 hour trip Luers will have Friday night. Huntington North would still get to showcase their facility by hosting the North Miami/South Adams game.

Most schools that host sectional events in basketball and volleyball have 4 locker rooms, but those are in/near their gym and may not be close to the football field. It’s a logistic that could possibly be overcome, but it would also be a factor to consider when deciding which schools are chosen to host.

I’ve thought about football semi-state games being played as a double header on Saturday like the basketball semi-state used to be (which was far better than the current basketball semi-state format) instead of Friday night single games at a host school. Fans could attend 2 games if they choose with game 1 played at 2:00 p.m. and game 2 played at 6:30 p.m. Lunch before game 1 and dinner before game 2. The start times should permit enough time for the first game to be played, celebration, facility cleared, and approximately an hour of pregame warmups before the start of game 2. I prefer single games at neutral sites on Friday nights, but it would be interesting to see what the Saturday double headers could look like.

BNL was an option I considered for that game, and it is probably a better fit to host a 3A game. I went with Mitchell since it is a little closer to being centrally located between Indian Creek and Gibson Southern. I already had a 4A game at Washington, so I looked at schools with turf a little closer to Indian Creek. Where is “here” and who are “we”?

As 23andCounting said, the state championship games are played on turf at Lucas Oil Stadium. It would be beneficial in my opinion to play on turf before the state finals. Do you think those teams that have played on grass all year will choose not to play in the finals because it is on turf, or complain that the conditions are not fair to them? Playing on turf is technically a field condition. You are right that there are reasons my suggestion for regional and semi-state is not currently done, but I think those can be overcome someday. This is just my hypothetical based upon my preferences for the regional and semi-state rounds. Some will agree with my suggestion for neutral sites on turf and others may prefer the current home game format. It’s like a Dave Portnoy pizza review. He likes some styles more than others and issues his rating based upon what he likes. You and I might like different styles of pizza. I go with New York style and Detroit deep dish.

Crap, that is my mistake with Yorktown hosting the Dwenger/Lebanon game. I had it as the first option in my tentative list before the games last night and forgot to change it to Maconaquah. I can’t edit my original post, but this is the correction. Bishop Dwenger/Lebanon @ Maconaquah

I am an advocate of neutral sites to host tournament games after the sectional round, and I think the football facilities in Indiana are capable of a format with neutral site hosts for regional and semi-state as we have in most other sports. All games would be played at locations with turf fields. This will reduce travel times and remove field conditions as a variable. It also gives schools an opportunity to showcase the investment they have made in their facilities. Here are my hypothetical neutral site regional games for this year. Neutral Site Regionals 6A Penn/Carroll @ Warsaw Westfield/Fishers @ Noblesville Brownsburg/Decatur Central @ Ben Davis Center Grove/Warren Central @ Southport 5A Merrillville/Michigan City @ Chesterton Lafayette Jeff/Concord @ Logansport New Palestine/East Central @ Greensburg Bloomington South/Floyd Central @ Seymour 4A Hobart/South Bend St. Joseph @ LaPorte Bishop Dwenger/Lebanon @ Yorktown Yorktown/Roncalli @ Hamilton Southeastern Martinsville/Heritage Hills @ Washington 3A Knox/Angola @ Wawasee Twin Lakes/Bishop Luers @ Wabash Cascade/Lawrenceburg @ Shelbyville Indian Creek/Gibson Southern @ Mitchell 2A Andrean/Southmont @ Harrison (WL) Adams Central/Eastbrook @ Bluffton Indianapolis Lutheran/Lapel @ Mount Vernon Linton-Stockton/Brownstown Central @ Bloomington North 1A LaVille/Pioneer @ Culver Academies North Miami/South Adams @ Huntington North Sheridan/South Putnam @ Tri-West Milan/Providence @ Madison

Some social media discussions have mentioned a merger with the Circle City Conference (Roncalli, Chatard, Guerin, Brebeuf) as a possibility.