foxbat

I will ask, "What does female/woman/XX/etc. have to do with bad football?" ... whether in the future or present?

Certainly true, although there are many of them that just are and chose to remain ... however, you tossed in women into that mix as a cause.

So now we're blaming women for bad football? Looks like a new batch of spaghetti's ready to get flung at a wall.

I'm just curious if the issue is Cathedral is actually more heterogeneous than the Roncallis and Chatards. Most folks see Cathedral as a Catholic school, but it's more of a private school with a Catholic bent. I'm not sure of the demographics of the school, but diocesan schools tend to be much more homogenous. I know Brebeuf isn't a diocesan school, but I suspect it's much more Catholic than Cathedral. Similarly Chatard, LCC, Guerin, and Roncalli. That may well then have more of an SES impact across p/ps. You find LOTS of Catholics at those diocesan schools that are scraping by to send their kids to those schools because of the Catholic education whereas I wonder if there's an SES difference between Cathedral and it's Catholic counterparts. Again, I'm not sure if that's something at play or not. Is there any info, either data-driven or anecdotal that speaks to the Catholic/non-Catholic mix at Cathedral vs. it's Catholic counterparts?

This isn't even hitting at the trickle-down effect of youth sports. Most weekly games for travel and most rec are down to a single ump and even tournament play is starting to see single umps in the field for pool play and even some of the early morning games on bracket play.

This seems to speak to the idea that competitive balance for the state's football may not be the best answer for individual schools/programs and thus, contraction may actually hurt schools where the idea is not necessarily to win sectionals, but instead to provide enough funding to support their other sports.

I'm happy that everyone's overlooking Harrison; especially with them in the south this go round. The team's been improving over the past few years. A couple of years ago, they went back and forth eventually dropping a 4-point decision to eventual 4A state champs Roncalli. The last two years they've run into Zionsville early in post-season. They have been playing a stronger schedule in the undercards than their NCC mates. We'll get a chance to see early in the season what they'll look like as they will play LCC in scrimmage followed by West Lafayette and Plainfield for the first part of the season with a matchup against Jeff mid-season.

http://www.enigma-mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/9yZXe.gif

It's right on the money!

I could be wrong on this, but I think a lot of Pioneer's strength was independent of the MWC strength. There are certainly some conferences where the strength of the conference determines the strength of a particular team or teams from that conference, but I think there are some programs that regardless of the strength of the conference have done well and Pioneer is one of those. I've pointed out before, but if you look at the last decade and a half of football, LCC and Pioneer have been the predominant enders of each others seasons. In almost all of those meetings, even though they came early in post-season, they were the equivalent of semi-state or state matchups ... the exceptions were probably 2017 and 2018 where Pioneer just basically mauled LCC en route to LOS.

This week. 🙂

Not sure. Assuming that this season starts a new assessment period, LCC would remain in 2A another two seasons and SHOULD need to pick up at least two points across those two seasons. Then again, they should have needed two points to stay up this last go-round and they only had one point and stayed in 2A.

One down as LCC's still up in 2A.

Of interest, given that LCC won a sectional and stayed in 2A with a single point, and Pioneer won a regional in 2A in 2020, but bowed out before picking up a sectional and moved down to 1A, is that Lutheran ran the table in 1A last season and remains there for this coming season. With that occurrence, I think Lutheran is the odds-on favorite coming out of the south. The Sectional 47 crown probably gives an indication of the LOS representative from the south. While I don't think they have the depth to make it deep into the post season, keep an eye on TPCA to play spoiler to someone's post season. They've been on the cusp of picking up a sectional and the Sectional 42 might just be in their future this season. AC is, IMO, odds-on favorite to return to LOS, thus setting up a grudge match between Lutheran and AC of last year's 1A title game. Pioneer, coming down from 2A, could play spoiler to that rematch and also don't rule out NJSP to trip someone up in an ambush on the way to LOS. My top spoiler though, coming out of the north, is going to be Pioneer. Been there, done that, from the Pioneer program, and the last three seasons in 2A have them relatively calm, but not cocky, returning to 1A. If anyone can make it past AC, Pioneer would likely be the team. With that said, there's a lot to overcome to dethrone AC.

One point in a two-year classification period gets you sent back down. Two points, whether two sectionals in two consecutive classification seasons or a regional and no sectional in two consecutive classification seasons. In essence a regional or two sections counts for two points and keeps you up.

I think they had changed it before last night, but you are correct that they were originally in 2A and are now showing up in 1A's documents. As for whether they are done or not, your guess is as good as mine.

If applied evenly or logically ... no problem with that. However, again, using Chatard's experience to try to make sense, Chatard had eight points in two seasons while LCC had seven points in three seasons. Chatard had a pair of state titles while LCC had a state title and a regional in the two seasons when they were in their previous classes. Realistically, Pioneer, Chatard, and LCC are no shrinking violets in Indiana football. Pioneer's been to LOS five times, LCC's been eight times, and Chatard's been a whopping 16 times. I completely understand the special commissioner treatment for a team that might have picked up six points and might have found themselves up a class on a once in a career situation, but that doesn't really apply to the likes of Pioneer, LCC, and Chatard which are well-known, at least in the last decade and a half, for punching above their weight. I'm trying to give the IHSAA the benefit of the doubt for the movements/non-movements, but there doesn't seem to be a reasoning. Even in the case of commissioner discretion, there should be a reasoning. As an example using a fictitious account, "In reviewing the record of Indiana School of the Deaf who was promoted to 2A in 2021, the Commissioner has determined that special circumstance provides for Indiana School for the Deaf to revert to their original Class A position due to the once-in-a-lifetime state championship win followed by a severe dropoff in student enrollment that would place their players at risk as well as a zero-point first season in 2A on a 3-7 record." I'm not sure that there could be a straight-faced statement as to why LCC's still in 2A and Chatard is back down in 3A ... other than, as I pointed out, a semi-logical, "Due to the 2020 season giving odd results due to the impact of COVID, the IHSAA took the 2021 results and counted them as a surrogate for both the 2020 and 2021 seasons." While folks may not like that, it would show some level of reasoning as to the action. In essence, a little transparency helps.

Class 1A (63 Schools) 41. (8) Bowman Academy, Culver Community, North Judson-San Pierre, North Newton, Pioneer, South Central (Union Mills), South Newton, Triton 42. (8): Attica, Clinton Central, Clinton Prairie, Covington, Fountain Central, North Vermillion, Park Tudor, Traders Point Christian 43. (8): Carroll (Flora), Caston, Frontier, North White, Taylor, Tri-Central, Tri-County, West Central 44. (8): Adams Central, Fremont, Madison-Grant, North Miami, Northfield, South Adams, Southern Wells, Southwood https://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/quick resources/Enrollments & Classifications/2022-23 2023-24/2022-23 2023-24 Football Assignments.pdf

With the new assignment back to 1A, I see Pioneer picking up a regional with NJSP being the potential fly-in-the-ointment to that in 41. AC is probably the swarm-in-the-ointment in the way to representing the North.

Shades of 1A days past. LCC and Pioneer used to be ranked in the top 5 of 1A for several years when the tournament started, only to end each other's seasons before the sectional champion was crowned. Looks like they'll be split this coming cycle as Pioneer is back down in 1A with LCC remaining in 2A.

So a change in rules? One point in an assessment period normally doesn't keep you up nor does one point in a season. As you stated above, it'd be nice to hear a clarification from the IHSAA just so folks have an idea of whether there's a process or just shooting from the hip. And yes, I just heard that as it came out of my mouth with regard to the IHSAA. 🙂 d. If a school which has participated in a higher enrollment class during the previous reclassification period achieves a tournament series success point value of Two (2), Three (3), Four (4) or Five (5) points in a specific sport, such school shall remain in the same enrollment class in that sport for the next reclassification period. The foregoing notwithstanding, if there is a change in the school’s enrollment which would result in the school being placed in a higher enrollment class than the enrollment class dictated by this section, then in that circumstance the school shall be placed in the enrollment class determined by the school’s enrollment for the next reclassification period. e. If a school which has participated in a higher enrollment class during the previous reclassification period achieves a tournament series success point value of One (1) point or less in a specific sport, such school shall be placed in the classification immediately below the classification previously occupied for the next reclassification period.

That's possible, but given that, LCC earned: 2019 won state in 1A 2020 won regional in 1A 2021 bumped to 2A ... won sectional in 2A If 2020 didn't count for anything, then LCC would have had four points in 1A in 2019 and no points in 2020 and would not have met the threshold for being bumped to 2A. Nonetheless, they were bumped to 2A after the 2020 season. They won a sectional in 2021 in 2A, garnering only a single point, but still remain in 2A. Somehow, 2020 counted ... at least for some teams. And just to confuse matters more, look at Chatard: 2019 won state in 3A 2020 won state in 3A 2021 bumped to 4A ... lost in sectional championship Chatard, like Pioneer, also went down to their original class. And given that, like LCC, Chatard got bumped up to the next higher class on reaching the 6+ points to move up a class, and these came in 2020, it would suggest that 2020 had to count for something otherwise LCC and Chatard would not have garnered enough points to move up a class. Given the similarities in LCC and Chatard, the 2019/2020 seasons to bump up a class, and the similarities in Chatard and Pioneer, neither won a sectional in 2021, the only way I can see the numbers working to justify the bumps for LCC and Chatard, the drops for Chatard and Pioneer, and the remainder in 2A for LCC is a cockeyed approach to the application of the 2021 season and treating the outcome as a "double season." In essence, Pioneer and Chatard scored zero points in 2021, times 2, gives them zero points for assessment. LCC gets the 1 point in 2A, which normally would not be enough to stay up in an assessment period, but multiplied by 2 gives them 2 points and they stay in 2A.

Three of the four 2A teams in the Hoosier Conference showed 40+ players in 2021 and Lewis Cass, the 4th, showed 38.

Stranger still is that LCC was in 2A last season a won a sectional, for just one point, and is in 2A still.