OldschoolFB

On 9/22/2023 at 9:35 AM, BTF said:

Not much love for Luers and South Side?

Yeah, I whiffed huge on those. And HHS and Wayne

On 9/18/2023 at 7:41 AM, NE8_Fan said:

Well, I'll disagree for you...Dwenger would NOT be considered a favorite right now.  Yes their line play is good but I just don't see them being able to guard the athletes of a New Haven or Leo for 4 quarters, Columbia City has yet to prove themselves against a quality opponent so I would, without hesitation, put them over CC.  They could score on the likes of New Haven's defense somewhat consistently but there's no way they win a shoot out.  They would, I think, fair better against a Leo and East Noble due to that fact of similar styles but even then I think they are going to be a slight underdog.

We will see.  I don’t think Dwenger has it either but you’re underestimating the advantage Dwenger has in the trenches.  
Having said that, now is the time for the NE8 to pounce on Dwenger.  They won’t be down forever(unless this current coach stays forever) and even if the current staff stays on for a while, they have talent in upcoming classes that can carry them past most 4A schools regardless of their current leadership. 

On 9/18/2023 at 3:13 PM, jakone said:

Dwenger at Northrop

Luers at North Side

Snider at Homestead

South Side at Concordia

Wayne at Carroll

Dwenger 42-14

North Side 45-21

Snider 42-14

Concordia 49-20

Carroll 56-10

On 9/16/2023 at 7:09 PM, Komets2727 said:

Wrong, Dwenger would not be favored against Leo, New Haven, or East Noble. Matter of fact, Dwenger would lose by double digits against any of those 3 teams this year

 

 

We will see. 

9 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Yes he is good, but he tried to do too much last night. D1 recruits are always really good

Can’t argue with that.  I think he may think he has to get rid of it too quickly sometimes(which is also his strength) and DBs are picking up on something.  And many times it’s a tight window and the really good DBs like HSE and Snider can make you pay. 

On 8/25/2023 at 8:43 AM, SAC_Coach said:

You may be right, you may be wrong long term. But do you realize by simply plugging them into that Sectional based on current Sagrin ratings Dwenger is the highest rated team. 

Dwenger would be the favorite to anyone who is being honest.  Having said that, they could EASILY lose.  The issue for the NE8 is going to be the psychological hurdle and line play.  
 

13 hours ago, BTF said:

The winner of Sectional 19 will be someone from NE8. 

I can’t say I disagree.  I’m just saying if you’re picking a “favorite” they’d likely be the one.  However, I think it will be either New Haven or Leo. (If I was forced to pick right now)

On 8/25/2023 at 8:43 AM, SAC_Coach said:

You may be right, you may be wrong long term. But do you realize by simply plugging them into that Sectional based on current Sagrin ratings Dwenger is the highest rated team. 

Dwenger would be the favorite to anyone who is being honest.  Having said that, they could EASILY lose.  The issue for the NE8 is going to be the psychological hurdle and line play.  

1 hour ago, Komets2727 said:

Well, let’s not pile on about how great their QB is when he has thrown 4 pick 6’s on the year. That is alot!!! You can’t always blame that on the QB, but his 2 picks tonight are on him for sure and it cost his team the game. Yes, their defense is good, but Buchanan ran for 6 yards a pop and they gave up a 60 yard TD run as well. I agree, Carroll has a shot to get to state, but I could also see them losing in regionals as well

He’s pretty darn good.  Just trying to make plays.  He will learn.  I think you’d find out how good he is if he wasn’t there.  He is efficient and makes ALOT of great throws.  

19 hours ago, Grover said:

Oh come on.  This is fun to watch in the off season but isn't there actual football to be discussing right now?

You’re correct.  Let’s Goooo!!

4 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

For sure...it's more about Private than "Catholics".  I should probably use the word "Private" more often.  It just so happens that in Indiana they are the bulk of our Private schools.  We are Public with a huge Catholic population.

The community pitching in is KEY and HUGE, or at least it has been for us.  My point was the he assumes the folks that complain about our current jacked up system don't have those things or they would be happy, and that simply isn't the case.

Got it.  And 100% agree!!✊🏼👊🏼

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

Apparently you do care LOL.  

Dead Weight is just a term used here among friends...but if my terminology is all you can take a swing at....strike 3.

1.  Winning programs are also victims of the IHSAA inequitable policies...but remember that winning and lining ones trophy cases with state titles via inequity are two different things.

2. Assuming again that folks complaining here don't have "community" sweat equity....you really have no idea.  In fact, I am willing to bet multiple communities are putting in more work than some that are taking advantage of the system. Probably more often than you think.  Small men use semantics to try and make points.

4. Nobody here is bigoted against Catholics...surely a nice catholic boy like yourself isn't that woke.

5.  I believe you are smart enough to know what the issue really is and that it is indeed an issue.

6.  Those rings were a bargain, keep kidding yourself that they were the result of you pitching in community sweat equity.  Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

There is a little pitching into the community they helps.  If you work with the kids as a parent early and often, it will make a difference but I understand your overall point.  
In regards to Catholics, don’t kid yourself, there are many people who don’t like them but i think it’s for far different reasons than athletics and I don’t believe it crosses over into athletics and if it did, it’s more they don’t like private schools. 
And just so you get where I’m coming from, I always enjoy your posts as they are well thought out and reasonable. 

6 hours ago, Just a dad said:

After reading this entire thread, and may others like it in other places, and listening to the discussion in various areas, the one thing I never see or hear is a kid complaining about the “fairness” of the system. In this thread there isn’t one and there is only one actual coach who contributed (I’d tend to apply a multiplier of 1000x to an actual coaches input). This annual argument seems to be pushed mostly by 50+ year old men with dreams of being Al Bundy (respect to Polk High). It’s actually humorous to see them reach into their bags of “butwhatabout” to justify their argument of the day. 

The coach in this thread was right. Size of staff, years of experience in that staff, and consistency of the staff have more to do with a programs success than anything other than the number of kids in the program. I have watched my son (in another state) play in a youth program since he was 7 years old. Those youth programs dominated the other youth programs annually due to all of the items I mentioned above. In middle school, though, those numbers started to fall off. It was so bad that as a 6A (largest class) school, they could only get 40-45 kids to come out for football. There were just as many kids in the student section on Friday nights that could have helped that team. There are 4 kids from his age group who will play D1 football and only 1 of them played more than 2 years at that high school. The coaching staff had a severe “daddy ball” tilt and the school administration didn’t care enough to fire a consistently underperforming head coach.

The factors that matter: 1. Do the school Admin and community support the program. 2. Are there sufficient and qualified coaches with multiple years of tenure at that school 3. Is there a strong youth program 4. Do the kids in the school (not just the players) take pride in the product their school puts on the field weekly. (Oddly, all 4 of those have one thing in common: putting the kid first)

If you don’t have those things then kids who have dreams of being more than Al Bundy will leave and seek those opportunities elsewhere. Kids who don’t care will hang out in the stands. The rich will get richer (competitively speaking) and other teams will slide into obscurity. 

For everyone who complains about how unfair the system is I simply ask this: What are you doing, other than complaining on a message board, to change the situation at your favorite HS? If the answer is nothing then congrats, you are earning your results. Maybe pick up the phone, call the HS or youth program, volunteer some time, rally your buddies (if you have any) and go be part of the solution. Culture is contagious. Tradition doesn’t graduate. 

Have a great day!

100% correct!!

On 6/19/2022 at 9:39 AM, Guest said:

The "private training" comes in the form of CYO football.  Many public school kids are putting on pads and helmet for the first time in high school while their PP counterparts have been playing organized football with specialized coaching with a 5 to 7 year head start.  Even if public school kids play junior high football , they are coached by very young, inexperienced guys who are trying to work their way up to the varsity staff.  

This is the "secret sauce" of PP football.  Young PP players are learning how to pull, pass protect and trap block while their public opponents are still playing video games at home after school.  

There are many public schools who have tried to duplicate/replicate the CYO model in a public environment.

Some of the best are :

Center Grove

Eastbrook

FW Snider

Hobart

South Adams

Adams Central

Michigan City

New Prairie

Brownstown Central

Heritage Hills

 

 

Id suggest the public schools start emulating what these schools do in their feeder systems.  Stop de-emphasizing football, active recruit from “within your own hallways” sell the program to kids at all ages and especially early on and don’t expect State Titles immediately.  Give it 2-3 years and make the goals in years 1 and 2 more attainable than a State Title.  
You’re complaining about others success through hard work is sickening.  You told (or someone on the same page as you) said Mebuck offended a ton of people.  Well you offended me and at least as many as you’re claiming Me buck offended.  Why should everyone else in the State lay down and not succeed for your benefit?   I realize some schools have more resources and if that’s what you’re basing success on, make it the haves and the have not leagues combined with it being based on size.  Don’t like that idea? Then learn to build something to believe in and win because YOU worked and over came the odds as opposed to tearing everyone else down so YOU can win.  
If we used your logic, why are we stopping at the fairness of facilities?  Why not penalize highly athletic and talented players by only letting them play in 6A or 2 quarters?  Or if you have a great arm, you can’t play QB? 
if they idea sounds stupid, I agree with you, welcome to the common sense club.  If you like the idea, I hope you grow a pair and learn to fight no matter the odds and quit complaining about others being successful. 

On 9/11/2023 at 10:09 AM, jakone said:

Carroll at Snider

Concordia at Luers

Northrop at North Side

Wayne at South Side

Homestead at Dwenger

Carroll 41 Snider 28

Luers 42 Concordia 28

North Side 42 Northrop 13

Wayne 42 South Side 6

HHS 35 Saints 10

23 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

Let's hope the best for the Saints. 

Always good to have them on the state's 'radar' when playoff time comes.  

I’ve been a tough critic of the Saints so I’ll add this to the discussion for a positive thought.  
If their line continues to improve, they will be tough to beat in the Sectionals.
Add an improved secondary (not O Keefe, he’s very very good) and we don’t give up the home run because we are out of position or no safety help we will be the overwhelming favorite. One DB needs help in coverage but I think he will improve. Add a less predictable passing attack with quick passes and an occasional deep ball, we could win the Semi State too. No matter what, Northwood is going to be a tough team to beat but Semi State in 4A isn’t anything to be ashamed of.  If we somehow make it to State, we don’t match up well with East Central.  Don’t know enough about Roncolli or New Pal to know if they can beat EC.  We may match up better with those teams.  
I’m hoping we start a positive trend and utilize our playmakers with quick hits and stop with 90% of our routes being fly patterns. If we beat HHS, we could finish 5-4(maybe beat Snider if we can keep up with their speed) and go into playoffs with positive momentum. 

On 9/9/2023 at 12:45 AM, Yuccaguy said:

So should BDHS defeat HHS next week...  would that 'temper' a bit of the situation?

I have no 'dog' in this situation...  just merely navigating the current state of affairs on Washington Center and Clinton. 

And yes...to your concern.  It is a bit different at this point.  But then again, so are the Carroll Chargers as it relates to one of your implications on the state of affairs.  

Carroll being good has very little to do with Dwenger’s slide.  There are enough players for Dwenger to have competed with its first 2 opponents and they could have beaten Carroll.  Every time? No but 1 of 5.  The staff finds ways to put the team in a bad spot.  For example going for it on 4th and 15 on own 15.  Or in 2020 against Zionsville going for it on 4th and 3 on own 39 with 1 min left in 3rd up 20-6.  Momentum shift that cost us the game. Or not playing their best in 2019 in semi state until a few injuries or not playing several key players in 2121 on offense or not using the running back they did use in 2121 often enough.  Ie) Carroll and HHS and Snider housed us and he was only used in 1 series.  And they had 3 guys in D at least as good.  Or not letting Skarie play much D last year after being All Sac as Jr or playing a coaches son or nephew  who has no business playing and I mean NO BUSINESS (2019 O Line) this year first 2 games at Safety, many Tippmann’s who are at running back(we had zero play there and all of the sudden 2 brothers were very good at that spot(still not best option save for you gets SR year) and now we HAVE to have one playing there?  Or NEVER giving outmatched corners help because our Cb could cover in the CYO supposedly. 
I could go on and on and on and on.  It’s very difficult to watch.  
To answer your question about HHS, no it would t matter because this coach will do things like this, he will play the right guys when his backs against the wall and the kids make plays when given the chance.  For example, Snider in the playoffs in 2021. That Saints team was very good and finished 7-5.  Pathetic. 
And they won’t beat HHS. But if we do, that makes us 5-4 again in regular season at best.  Yank yank. Don’t undersell Luers either, they will get better while our coaches will be trying to divvy up stats to we can sell the “ team concept”.  And we will never find a rhythm.  

14 hours ago, BTF said:

I have no affiliation with Dwenger, so no reason to be mad. Also no reason to be mad at a response that come from the heart versus going on the attack. I've always admired Dwenger both academically and athletically. I wish them the very best moving forward. Fort Wayne football isn't the same without Dwenger competing for the SAC championship. 

I agree.  100%.  We are also 1-3 and two plays a way from having 3 running clocks out on us.  We’ve had 5 running clocks in 2 years and 4 games. Moeller is 1-3 ve the rest of Indiana including 4A East Central.  
I listen to Our parents and we are now the crowd they thinks we played well when we lost 40-13.  That’s how far it’s fallen.  There is no other way to slice it. 

23 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

 

Let's not drop to the level of disparaging an entire program/institution...even if you may/may not have a feeling that you're correct.  

There are ebbs and flows with all things.  

I am sure that what's going on at Washington Center/Clinton will change soon.  To suggest that the legacy of a program would be lost that quickly, considering that they have feeders that have allowed them to succeed is all but gone....is preposterous.  

Besides, what are many bloggers gonna do with their P/P postings if Dwenger drops off the map?   

I am just stating the facts. I love Dwenger.  But it’s a lot closer to being  an ehhh type of team.  The wrong power broker in charge.  They don’t know anything about athletics and the powers that be are beholden to them.   And the worst part about it is they have know clue as to what they don’t know. 

14 hours ago, BTF said:

Why the drop in enrollment over the past few years? Are Dwenger families saving money and sending their kids to Carroll? Carroll has good academics and athletics, one of the better public schools in the state. 

It’s Probably because the entire school is run by people who are seeking the destination of the job for their own personal satisfaction as opposed to it being a calling to help our youth.  There are good teachers and staff and a few coaches that are good but overall anyone hired anymore seems to be just another cog in the protect each other machine and the we are always right and know better than you machine.  
There isn’t any self reflection with any of the major sports at Bd on the boys side and very few on the girls.  We used to take pride in greatness and working harder and achieving more.  We used to applaud taking on challenges.  Now our coaches expect to win and have the kids do it for them.  They don’t teach the sport like they used to and if a good one comes in, they’re run out because it isn’t “fair” to those who aren’t starting.  Which by the way, complaining about not playing is just a passive way of being competitive and not very “fair” to the kids who have worked harder.  
just my thoughts.  Don’t get mad at my response as you asked the question. 

15 hours ago, statmurp_10 said:

What can be stated about the BD Saints? No one would want to make excuses, but then again, any critiquing pretty much sums up excuses. Where should we begin? Oh, I know student enrollment for the four grades is 930. That number is within the bottom third of Class 4A. A couple of years back, the enrollment was about 1060. And yes, then they were playing in Class 5A. Not every year will produce a banner season with the changing of the athletes' blend. There must be a reshuffling of top performers between all of the eligible athletes; usually, these are from grade 10 through grade 12. Then, there is the change of the position's coaching staff from year to year. Some stay many seasons, and others want to find out how effective they will be in their responsibilities. They make their enthusiasm known and stay for another season or more,e relishing their time with the athletes. Others make an early exit after a season or two. Not everyone on the staff may have the coaching longevity or the gravelly voice of one J. Fred Tone. "Sudden Change!

You are aware that the head chief demoted his OC a couple years back but forgot to inform the general public he was calling plays and setting personnel?
the coach let go, or demoted, was doing a great job, the kids loved him and so did the students at the school.  He actually did care about the kids.  It was about making them better as opposed to himself.  You know the way one J Fred Tone used to.  I guess after he left, there was “Sudden Change”.  

On 9/5/2023 at 9:34 PM, Mebuck said:

I have my opinion on what's wrong with Dwenger. All I will say is that program has been on the decline since 2019. The revolving door of coaches. They are now on their 3rd OC.

The last one quit half way through a season. They are trying to relive the Glory days of the late 1980s. This may upset a few people when I say this. It all starts with one guy.

Carroll will win big this Friday. I am skipping the game. 

This week's winners:

Wayne, Homestead, North and the 2023 SAC Champs will kill South (why even play starters)

 

This is the best post I’ve read on here about the problems at Dwenger.  Everyone’s afraid to say it.   There were a handful of wise people that knew this immediately (even in 2018) and since then we’ve seen the talent in 2019 and 20 and even in 21 ( didn’t have the line to make a deep run)get completely wasted. Should have at the very least been to State in 19 and 20 and had the talent to win both years (would’ve been a tall order against New Pal and Cathedral but the kids deserved a shot) Between 2018 and 2021 they produced 3 Division 1 linemen and another (arguably the best behind Joe T)plays locally. They have also sent 5 other players to D1, have had 2 player of the year players.  18 All State Players.  One of the most prolific passers in SAC history arguably their best MLB in history and Didn’t use ant least 5 other kids on offense and played D only which held them back from college offers.  Even last year they wasted a couple kids ability as well. Dwenger is more than capable of winning 5A.  This 4A excuse to me is sickening.  The old guard never would have backed down from the 5A challenge.  They would have seen it as an opportunity.  
That’s all I have.  I need a Tylenol. 

13 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

I will say that there are problems at the corner of Washington Center and Clinton fir the Saints. I don’t see this turning around anytime soon either. I am starting to believe that the SAC is going to be revolving around Carroll, Snider, and Homestead for the next several years

You are 100% correct!!  They better change quickly or it’s going to get really bad. 

On 9/4/2023 at 7:37 PM, temptation said:

Is the gap between the haves and the have nots as big as its ever been in this conference?

@BTF?

Seems like a bunch of yawners and just waiting for the Carroll/Snider showdown…

Yes.  And not going to get better anytime soon. 

18 hours ago, jakone said:

Dwenger at Carroll

Luers at Wayne

North Side at Concordia

Northrop at Homestead

South Side at Snider

Carroll by 42

Wayne by 21

north Side by 14

homestead by 45

Snider by 50

The once mighty SAC is no more.  It consists of 3.5 good teams and soon to be 3 if Dwenger doesn’t fix a few things. 

On 8/9/2023 at 11:24 AM, npcougar15 said:

I wouldn't change too much about the current season except:

1. Seed sectionals 1-4 (in 8 team sectionals) then random draw the other 4. better seed gets home field advantage. Once you hit regionals and or both teams are seeded it goes to the current format to determine home team.

 

The only other thing I'd think about touching is something with the privates. Don't know if that means they automatically play up a class? Create 2 classes with privates (small and big school) and have their own tournament? Don't know what the answer is exactly but it's time to get creative

 

I don’t understand all of the blanket categorizing of all private.  Sure a few are bad at recruiting but up here in the Fort, ALL of the public schools are much much much worse with recruiting.  
and I don’t think Indy is any different.  Cathedral is the worst offender, however.  My point being the amount of moaning by public schools is sad.  And they do it too  

On 8/21/2023 at 2:47 PM, jakone said:

Eastbrook at Concordia

Dwenger at Moeller

North Side at Lawrence North

Snider at East Noble

Wayne at Northrop

Homestead at Noblesville

New Haven at Luers

St. Joseph at South Side

Warren Central at Carroll

Eastbrook over Concordia

Moeller over Dwenger 59-3

Snider over East Noble by 28

Wayne over Northrop by 21

Noblesville over HHS by 21

New Haven over Luers by 21

St Joe over South by 17

Carroll over Warren by 10