BTF

Yep, sometimes it just happens that way. It's a good program for sure.

I get it.

Conservative values?

A region guy pulling for Center Grove? I think I'm feeling sick.

Alabama uses statistical data instead of throwing out random numbers..........imagine that. I like their system with Minnesota a close second. How about a combination of the two?

With an enrollment of 5000 students, the Greyhounds will ALWAYS be the favorite up north.

I've got my money on the Tigers. Regional title within the next three years. State representative within the next five? I think it's possible. Westfield doesn't have the north in their back pocket by any means.

The stat I found was for the 13-14' school year. I just figured that number was consistent with other years...........guess not

Coach Haydock made a state champion out of Harding (99.5% free lunch), so I don't see why any of those other coaches couldn't do the same at a Gary school. Coach Land took South Side to semi-state about a decade ago and lost to the eventual state champs by 7 points. They posted an 11-3 record that year. Free lunch rate currently is 55%, not sure what it was then. In all fairness, Harding is probably a better example relating to your question. Easier at a school sitting in an affluent community? Yes. I think you've made a good point on this forum regarding socioeconomic factors. No one ever discussed it until you brought it to the table.

You keep saying "we," but it's really more about Coach Moore than it is anything else. He's arguably the best coach in the state. He could do the same thing at Carroll or Homestead. I would say it's more of a Coach Moore thing than a community thing. It all starts with the coach. It's up to him to get the community invested. When Coach Moore retires, the football program won't be the same. Good maybe, but not the same. I have a lot of respect for Cathedral. Catholic kids just seem to play football at a different level for some reason. But a large reason for their success is their open border. I would compare Cathedral to a program like Carmel with an enrollment of 4000-5000. Of course coaching and culture play big factors. But you have to admit that large enrollments and open borders give yourself an advantage over other programs. There's no shame in admitting that you have certain advantages. When Coach Wright was at the helm at Warren or when Coach Dullaghan was at the helm at BD, they would be the first to admit that they had an enrollment advantage and access to some pretty darn good athletes. Great coaches, but they still had advantages.

Honestly, with 5000 students, anything less than a state championship in any sport should be considered a disappointment. Lol, I think you're right. Even with the population difference between the two states, Indiana's 8 doesn't compare to Florida's 33. That's an impressive number.

Might as well rank Indiana 6th. Per capita, Indiana obliterates California. If we had California's population, we'd have 47 kids in the Top 250 compared to the Sunshine state's 13.

Regardless, those are some wicked numbers for baskeball.......but that's nothing new. If we could just retain our in-state talent, IU, Purdue, ND, and Butler would be Top 25 programs on an annual basis.

With the construction of Shields Field, Snider is now the only team in Allen County without their own stadium............yet they bring in more football revenue to FWCS than any other team. Not sure how that makes sense. Regarding your "slippage" comment, the only thing slipping is enrollment numbers and white collar families. Last year was rough and the year before that was subpar, but they had some darn good teams the four years prior. State champs in 2015. Not sure how they weren't the state champs in 2016. Colossal meltdown against an inferior Carmel team in 2017. And a pretty decent team that lost to the Greyhounds by 17 points in 2018. Let's see what happens in 2021 and 2022 before we write them off as a slipping program. My early prediction for this year is a good matchup at semi-state between Snider and Zionsville. The winner of that will have their hands full though.

Is that because Jaylon Smith committed to Notre Dame when he was a sophmore/junior?

PM me and lets make a little wager on that. We can go as high as you want.

I normally fact check before I post. I concede to "last several years."

I'm not doubting that, it just seems like Cathedral is some how different now (last several years) than they were in the past (the preceding five decades).

Didn't realize that............thanks.

I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, just trying to figure out how a program (Center Grove and Cathedral) produces 10+ Division 1 football players. Certainly they don't breed better athletes in those neighborhoods than they do in other parts of the state.

There isn't a Catholic elementary and middle school that feeds into it?

I honestly don't care if a program recruits or doesn't. If you can get a kid out of your district to come play football for you, then you are doing something right as a coach. They want to play for you for a reason. I'm just think you need to play in the respective class to warrant that. I was simply stating that most of Dwenger's kids come through their Catholic feeder schools. They get a transfer here and there, but it's not a priority of their program.

This topic makes me appreciate schools like Bishop Dwenger who predominantly work within their Catholic pipeline. I do credit Cathedral for going out and scheduling the best football programs they can find, but they should be battle testing themselves for the 6A tournament annually. What is the point of playing 5a ball other than stocking their trophy case? Having lots of trophies is fun, but the 6A champion will always be acknowledged as the best team in Indiana.

In 2005 South Side fell to the eventual state champions by 2 points at semi-state. I believe the archers can reach that level of success again. They were 11-3 that year with their other losses coming at the hands of Snider in a close game and Dwenger. The season before that they were a touchdown away from reaching semi-state. They clearly bought into Matt Land's system before he defected to Tri State to take on the head coaching position there (if my memory serves me correctly). Sensing an opportunity, Mike Cheviron left Carroll to pick up where Land left off, leading the Archers to 27 victories over the next 4 years.

They will be battle tested for sure.