BTF

9 hours ago, Trojanmp52 said:

1 do not see happen when they will have to play a MIC school to win it

It could happen. Every once in awhile all,  of the 3000+ enrollment schools have an average or down year at the same time. Case in point...............2015. Not taking anything away from the great program of Center Grove, but Snider and New Pal would have had a good shot to win 6a that year. If Warsaw can put together 2000-2001 type season, anything is possible.

18 hours ago, DT said:

1. Id like to see Bart Curtis shock the state and win a Class 6A title at Warsaw.  Wouldn't that be a hoot?  

3. Id like to see 40 schools contract and Indiana High School Football get down to 280 programs.  That will eliminate the bottom feeders who dont give a damn, and improve overall competitive balance.

4. Im glad to see that The SAC has dropped its full round robin and is opening up to non non competition.  Snider, Dwenger, Luers, Homestead are statewide brand names and will benefit from increased exposure.

5. Id like to see some more Indiana - Ohio  public school crossover matchups.  The Pickerington Central - Columbus East game should be very interesting.  

8. The Tom Allen vs Jeff Brohm 10 Year War may just be getting started.  Both schools are recruiting at a higher level, continue to invest in improved facilities, and have committed to long term extensions for their head coaches.  Brohm currently has the upper hand, but Id like to see Allen continue closing the gap.  

10. Not convinced that Kyle Ralph will stay at New Pal for the long term.  Wouldn't you think he would get bored wining 66-6 every week?  Once you have destroyed all the local competition, its time to move on and conquer new lands.  I could see him possibly becoming a small college head coach.  Franklin?  Butler?  U of Indy?  Wabash?  etc etc

11. More inexperienced hires.  More lay coaches.  More retirements.  The combination results in the continued deterioration of coaching at the highschool level in Indiana.  This is a real concern, and widens the competitive gap between the haves and the have nots.  Id like to see the The IHSAA get involved and develop programs that encourage young teachers to get back in the coaching game, and stay for the long term.  Incentives are needed.  Its all about the Benjamins.

12. Football in the southwest region of the state seems to be getting better and better as other areas of the state continue to decline.  (Northwest Indiana, North Central Indiana)  Seems like there is more coaching stability in that part of the state.  Based on recent tournament results, the southwest is making big strides.  Kudos to The SIAC, The Big 8 and The PAC.  They are getting the job done.  Id like to see others areas of the state follow their lead and re prioritize football before its too late.

 

1.  Remembering the Phil Jenson led teams from 1999-2001. Bart Curtis appears to be heading in that direction. Inches from beating Penn in 2000 and inches from beating Snider in 2001.

3.  Great idea, but you'll get resistance on that like you always do.

4.  Right now it's just a thought, but I hope it comes to fruition. I enjoyed watching Snider play Penn and Cathedral. It brought larger crowds than playing some of the local competition.

5.  Coldwater Ohio (smaller school, but a major powerhouse) isn't too far from Fort Wayne. They came here one time. Elmhurst wanted relief from playing Snider and picked up Coldwater. Coldwater felt offended that they were a "relief" game. It was over after the first quarter.

8.  It's hard not to root for a guy like Tom Allen. I hope he can keep up with what Brohm is doing at Purdue. I see that the boilermakers cracked the Top 25 in recruiting this year. And Brohm ditching Louisville? I'm a fan.

10.  I love loyalty. I would like to see him stay at New Pal. But you are right, he has potential on a larger scale.

11.  Fort Wayne South. Matt Land in 2005. 11-3. Three points from a state title appearance. South Side has that potential, they just haven't had a coach to get them there.

12.  I remember when all you heard of from south of Indy was the city of Evansville and Bloomington South. I still have a hard time comprehending that the south has some pretty darn good football. Equal the north now?

13 hours ago, dmizers3 said:

I would say that's a little bit of an understatement.   As they are only 1 year removed from a state title in Ohio's largest class.  They have a very strong program that typically has multiple division 1 players. And as someone who comes from Ohio, they're the type of program tha just reloads.  But you're 100% correct.  As good as East is this is a big ask.  But I love the willingness to challenge your program.  I wish them luck.  I'm sure they'll represent themselves well, they always do.

Comparable to Ben Davis? That's what the remind me of.

1 hour ago, Olympian06 said:

A huge pick up for Columbus East. Love to see this. 

That's an understatement.

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 7:57 PM, psaboy said:

Sagarin ratings are just that, a rating, doesn't really mean much.

I don't think they mean much either.........................until November. By then, I think the Sagarin has a pretty good handle on things. Honestly, I think they would be more accurate if they calculated the score after 3 periods instead of the entire game. Some teams keep their starters in the whole game even when it's a blowout. Others pull their starters after the 3rd.

1 hour ago, psaboy said:

All I'm trying to say is the Snider is not as competitive against Carmel and Penn as they used to be.

Student body in the 80's and 90's consisted of 2100-2200 kids. Nowadays it's around 1700-1800. So yes, I do agree that it is a bit more challenging. Also, many white collar families have moved out of the Snider district and into Carroll and Homestead over the past couple of decades. That makes a difference too.

1 hour ago, psaboy said:

They are 8-9 all time vs Penn and 4-9 vs Carmel.

How far back are you going? I'm certain Snider and Penn have played over 20 games.

23 hours ago, HSFBFan64 said:

To give you an idea of the respect for Snider, our HOF head coach had a JV game date open up and he scheduled Snider. He attended the game on a practice/Monday night, so it really meant something to him. Told the boys (I’m paraphrasing) if you’re going to be an elite 6A team this is the competition you must defeat to do so. 

Warsaw has a smart head coach. It seems like he want's to be more than competitive at the 6a level. He probably has his sights on winning the whole thing. I'm looking forward to seeing how well Warsaw does over the next couple of years.

5 hours ago, sbriant20 said:

So if it was 3-4 instead of 2-5, a 1 game difference but really close to the .500 mark you'd say they were competitive? Just a games difference? And it looks like they've has some really good games with Carmel. Seem's pretty competitive to me, just my opinion tho!

I doubt you'll get anyone from Indianapolis who'll say "we don't wanna play Snider because it won't be a competitive game." Ben Davis, Carmel, Warren Central, ect. Snider's played them all. Two seasons ago Snider had Carmel down 14 points late in the 3rd and pinned at there own 10 yard line. Then a roughing the punter was called and that pretty much changed the dynamic of the game. Carmel won 22-21. Carmel is 7-0 against Snider in games decided by 3 points or less. So yes, most of the time it's a competitive game. I remember a couple of blowouts that Snider handed to Carmel. When Carmel win's big, it's always by 2 or 3 touchdowns, but no more.

Penn has won 3 of the last 4.  Overall, I think Penn holds a one or two game advantage in 20+ meetings.

3 hours ago, Staxawax said:

It's my understanding that a school can petition to play up in classification if it so chooses.  Otherwise, Snider's performance and enrollment decide what class they play. 

Correct. Not sure anyone is debating that fact. On one hand, you could say Snider's performance in 6a is what bumped them back down. However, a team could be Top 10 two years in a row and have the misfortune of running into Carmel at the regional level both years. Therefore, not accumulating enough points to stay in that class.

The debate on this thread is whether or not Snider is competitive at the 6a level. Facts going back a decade indicate an overwhelming yes.

3 hours ago, psaboy said:

That was back 15-20 years ago. Nowadays I just don't think Snider can compete year in and year out vs Carmel or Penn for that matter. The best fit, IMO is 5A for Snider.

Disagree 100%.

Out of 37 teams in 5a, Snider will be top 5 most years, top 10 every year. In 6a, they are top 15 every year, and top 5 some years. The better fit is 6a. Case in point.............Sagarin had Snider at #11 to finish last season and that was just an AVERAGE Snider team...... at best. The gap between the good and the bad in 6a is sickening. Losing Snider doesn't do 6a any favors from a competitive standpoint.

The season before last, Snider had Carmel down 2 touchdowns before self destructing late in the game and losing by 1. Snider beat Penn in 2012 (7 years ago), lost in 2013 & 2014, and IMO, would have beaten them in 2015. Last year, Sagarin had Snider at #11, Penn at #17.

I may be a bit of old school, but the playoffs aren't the playoffs if Snider's not butting heads with either Carmel or Penn.

17 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Not sure where y'all are going with this...not sure I am following.  No one is denying the excellence of New Pal these last few years or the long term greatness of Snider.

Historically (I have said this 1,000 times), I felt for many years that the best classes pound for pound were 2A and 4A (prior to the expansion to 6A).  5A initially was fairly weak (Snider had a couple of down years about then).  Then the some 4A teams (maybe just one - Cathedral) moved up to populate 5A.

Since then, it has changed with 3A becoming a stud class (which it had not been historically) with both 2A and 4A weaker.

Probably the greatest (certainly the most entertaining) State Championship game I ever saw was New Pal v. Snider.

Last year's Evansville Memorial v. West Lafayette game was pretty amazing too.

No one is denying just how good New Pal and Snider have been these last few years....and I certainly don't forget how many years Snider provided Carmel their toughest playoff game on the way to LOS. 

 

Good post. The bottom line.................5a is still solid. The south took a hit, but the north is stronger. Really no other way to look at it.

True fact. Snider is 0-7 against Carmel in games decided by 3 points or less.

18 minutes ago, dmizers3 said:

Not sure I'd agree with your assessment that the 5 schools in question are on an even playing field, that's all. 

Elaborate if you would. Thanks.

17 minutes ago, dmizers3 said:

This has nothing to do with New Pal. You just seem to be dismissing the quality of Columbus East,  Cathedral and Roncalli who will no longer be in 5A and thinking the additions of Dwenger and Snider balance that out, that's what is comical. 

The fact of the matter is, it's about quantity, not quality. Lose three, gain two. Snider, Dwenger, Cathedral, Roncalli, and Columbus East are on a level playing field. No one is dismissing the quality of the three teams from the south. Weren't you the one who said "the gains are no where near the quality of the losses"? Your not going to get anyone from Fort Wayne to buy into that statement. Sounds like you are the one dismissing the quality of the north.  So if you what you are looking for are posters who will jump on your "5a is down" bandwagon, you might what to restart this thread, draw a horizontal line through Indianapolis, and invite only posters south of that line.

10 hours ago, dmizers3 said:

Top to bottom might only be slightly down but the gains are no where near the quality of the losses.

This is getting comical. Be careful, New Pal thought they were unstoppable a few years ago and then found themselves down 42-14 in the championship game.

15 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

Should be fun!  Looking forward to it.  I think everyone expects 5A to be down with losses of East, Roncalli, and Cathedral, but I still think it will be a battle!

Only down slightly as a result of losing three and gaining two. The quality of teams are the same.

2 hours ago, jakone said:

Luersfield was built  by Luers people without tax money to which Luers parents contribute. I guess it is easy to cheap shot someone's stadium when you don't have one of your own. I'm sure a lot of Luers people would like to have a Texas high school like stadium but are proud we have played our home games at our own dump since 1980 than play in someone else's stadium.

Certainly not a dump. Certainly not a cheap shot. It's just small. I think Luers has a beautiful campus and it's great they play their games there. I just think they leave some money on the table when hosting some of the teams that bring a big following. Good luck to the Knights this year!

Back to Dwenger. Both teams could very well be 8-0 this year when they meet. That means 5000-10000 depending on the weather. Luckily the game is being played at Spuller. But I can't help but wonder what it's going to look like the first time Dwenger hosts Snider when both teams are undefeated. Maybe it will all work out. Anyway, congrats to Dwenger on their new field.

I hope they didn't use Luers as a model. If they did, I hope they added 1500 seats or better. I would be concerned with hosting big games against Luers, Snider, Homestead, and Carroll. Do Luers, and maybe Dwenger, leave a lot of money on the table due to lack of seating? I skip the Snider/Luers game whenever it is away. Their visitor side holds maybe 500 people.

3 hours ago, johnathanspencer said:

But what if Lex Luthor (think Bill Belichek here) is the opposing coach?  He inflates the footballs with helium-laced kryptonite and takes that away!  hahahaha.

Good response. That made me laugh...............literally!

Considering he can circle the earth several times in a minute, Superman might be kind of hard to catch on the football field.

6 hours ago, indycoach10 said:

Yeah, but New Pal will be coming out of the south which will be missing Roncalli, Cathedral, and Columbus East. Granted, Decatur Central is still there, but the north is a much more difficult path. Didn't say that they will run away with it, but they return a lot from a 5A state team where no one came within 14 points of them. I would say they are definitely the favorites, but yes, there will be challengers.

Good luck to New Pal, it sounds like they have a heck of a team coming back for 2019. Whoever makes it out of the north will welcome the challenge.

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 1:41 PM, indycoach10 said:

Look for New Pal to be the favorites for a repeat in 2019. 

Not so fast Indy Coach. Snider and Dwenger might have a say this year. It will be a fight to the end. Slight edge to Dwenger..............they hoist the 2019 state championship 5a trophy.  Or.................Snider/New Pal rematch? 5a will be interesting this year, to say the least.

5 hours ago, Basementbias said:

If it is true that a donor was going to pay for it and they turned it down, then this is a fail.

I'm going to give FWCS the benefit of the doubt and pass that off as a rumor. I can't imagine them saying no to a donor, then changing their mind a few years later and forking over almost a million in taxpayer money.

5 hours ago, Basementbias said:

Yes it was needed, but FWCS isn't in a great position in any of its standings from what I have heard.

Regardless, let's thank Wendy Robinson for making this a reality. It was a big decision on the part of FWCS.

5 hours ago, Basementbias said:

Only having the Bruin at midfield is a bad choice imo.

I agree. A decision was made a long time ago that Snider and Northrop would share a football field. If it's Snider's field too, then why is there a Bruin in the center? They say that Snider will still be able to put up their flags and banners, but that doesn't take away from the fact that there is a mascot of their most heated rivals in the middle of the field. On one hand, I can see Snider pretending to be appreciative and continuing to bring their flags and banners. On the other hand, I wouldn't blame them for bringing nothing at all and accepting the fact that they don't have a "home" field to play on. And that's not crying over spilled milk, that's just telling your players that EVERY game is an "away" game and we will continue to win even if the game is in your backyard.

I like your idea of having a football in the center. I might also consider FWCS in the endzones. I don't like the idea of SNIDER and NORTHROP plastered in the endzones, I think that would be unfair to Northrop since the field is on their campus. What about a simple panther and bruin on either side of the 50?

19 minutes ago, WCHS Tiger Fan said:

we don't want to , we want to compete with penn , not homestead  or carroll

Let's start with Carroll, then Homestead, then maybe Penn if you can get out of Sectional 3..........................Baby steps.

Seriously, I hope you guys really can compete with Penn.  However, you have along way to go to be put in the "Penn" category. Right now I would say Warsaw is Carroll caliber. And I only put them in Carroll's category because they had a decent 2018. Earn your way to Penn. If you can get out of sectional 3 by upending the favorite..........Homestead..........then I will be the first fan in the stands to watch Warsaw compete with Penn. Realistically, if you go to Penn's sectional, it could be one and done.

I've always thought, under the right leadership, the Warsaw community could put a quality product on the football field. I'm thinking of the Phil Jenson led teams of 2000 and 2001. In 2000, they rolled their way to a 9-2 record, beating a very good Northwood team 29-28. Their only other blemishes were an overtime loss to Homestead and a second round loss to Penn (eventual state champs) 10-7. Then came 2001. The entire Warsaw community had Penn on their mind.............they wanted revenge. However, this time, they were assigned to Sectional 3...............SNIDER. They rolled through the regular season undefeated and waxing every opponent they faced, including Kokomo 62-0 in the opening round of the sectionals. When they took the field against Snider, I couldn't believe how big they were..........their offensive line was enormous............one of the biggest I've seen at the high school level. Right away, 14-0 Warsaw. Then Snider made a slow comeback. 14-14 in the 3rd. 20-14 Warsaw (missed extra point). Last minute drive, 20-20 (missed extra point). Overtime...............Snider 23-20. That was one of the best football games I've ever witnessed. Both Penn and Snider eventually lost to Valpo that year. Valpo eventually lost to Ben Davis.

It is my hope that Bart Curtis can get Warsaw to that 2001 level again.

Good luck to the Tigers, I really wish them success. We need more strong programs representing 6a north.

If I'm a Warsaw fan, I'm wanting to go to Fort Wayne to compete with Homestead and Carroll rather than having to face Penn right away.

Kudos to Fort Wayne Community Schools and Wendy Robinson for making this happen. As much as it will pain Snider fans to have to look at a Bruin in the middle of the field during their home games, it's better than having to play on a field of mud.

In the past, playing at Northrop was home away from home for the football program and it's fans. Snider had the flags, banners, and pads on the goalposts to make it feel like home. Now that there is a Bruin in the middle of the field, all the banners and flags won't make a difference. All games moving forward for Snider will be away games. It is what it is though, I'm sure those responsible for the decision had there reasons.

Personally, I think the Bruin in the middle should be reconsidered and replaced with a FWCS logo.

4 hours ago, XStar said:

I think many would argue that 3A is the level playing field and not the 2A where they go to the state finals every other year no matter what.    

Without a doubt, Bishop Luers in it's current state, is a 3a caliber program. It always has been, and probably always will be. And it's just a matter of time before they get that championship at the 3a level. Coincidentally, they seem to have up years when they are in 2a (hence the 11 state championships) and down years when they are in 3a.