BTF

21 minutes ago, Temptation said:

So not quite "total dominance".  Gotcha.

You asked "how much of a factor does enrollment play?" It's not rocket science. Great coaching + MEGA enrollment = Total dominance. I keep forgetting you need everything spelled out for you. Indianapolis Tech has an enrollment of 2100...................ish (added the ish so you don't call me out on that too). Nick Saben could have some pretty good teams with Tech, but not total dominance. Total dominance is reserved for the mega schools with good coaching. My definition of a mega school is 3000+. Interesting how you can find a reason to debate even when someone agrees with you. 

3 hours ago, Temptation said:

So Nick Saban could turn Tech into a powerhouse?

He'd probably still have problems with the mega schools. 

Great coaching + enrollment = total dominance regardless of Socioeconomic............imo. 

In the 80's and 90's I think the SAC was widely considered Top 2. But in the last couple of decades the HCC has come on really strong with the growth of the Indy burbs. 

This is how the top three conferences stacked up in 2018 according to Sagarin. The gap between the MIC and the HCC is about the same as the gap between  the HCC and the SAC. It doesn't appear that this is going to create much debate.

1.     Warren Central     121

2.     Center Grove     105

3.     North Central     103

4.     Carmel     101

5.     Avon     97

6.     Brownsburg     92

7.     Ben Davis     92

8.     Lawrence North     90 

9.     Lawrence Central     89

10.   Bishop Dwenger     88

11.   Snider     86

12.   Zionsville     86

13.   Westfield     84

14.   Noblesville     81

15.   Hamilton SE     81

16.   Homestead     80

17.   Fishers     80

18.   Wayne     79

19.   Pike     75

20.   Luers     73

21.   Carroll     73

22.   Franklin Central     71

23.   Concordia     69

24.   Northrop     69

4 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I'm really hoping they can get by regional (likely have to beat Carmel) this year and play Penn for semi (99% sure that would be team). They haven't played Penn in post season for quite some time. 

Well, 0-6 against Carmel in games decided by 3 points or less won't get them to the next level against Penn. Have to somehow get over that hump. 

On 8/13/2019 at 6:37 AM, Temptation said:

Many on here (including myself) have coined the HCC as the conference of the future and spoken of the “gap closing” but it just hasn’t shown up in results.

I was going to make a case for the SAC in the two spot this year. But looking at the HCC again, I'll keep the SAC at three. Snider, Dwenger, Homestead, and Wayne could compete with anyone in the HCC this year. But the depth from there get's questionable. I'm not sure what Luers, Carroll, Northrop, or Concordia bring to the table this year. 

Ok. Snider it 1860, but not a 6a school by enrollment. That's why I mentioned 1200. 

Kudos to CE, they have a case for being the best program in the state, pound for pound, over the last decade and a half. 

53 minutes ago, Olympian06 said:

Minus CE which is 600 less than anyone else in 6A. Tough sledding for my boys this year lol. 

What is the enrollment at Columbus East? Certainly more than 1200?

1 minute ago, dmizers3 said:

No one's underestimating anyone,  well except maybe Dwenger underestimating every 5A team in the north with all their chirping.   And there was no underestimating in 2015 either, the more talented team won that day.  That was probably Snider's best team. 

Dwenger is a very confident program. I've never known them to underestimate anyone. And as good as I think they have the potential to be this year, they have Valpo to contend with. To me that game could go either way. This years talented SAC will prepare them well. I still like NP as the favorite, but the Dwenger/Valpo winner will give them a war. 

Much respect to New Pal. That game in 2015 was a matter of who had the ball last. I think both teams could have given Penn and CG a run for their money at the 6a level. With regard to Snider's best team...……….2004, 1986, 1992, & 1997. Probably in that order. I think the 2015 team comes in between 5-7 with the 2002 & 2012 teams. The offense in 2015 has a case for the programs best offense ever. Defense is the reason I don't rank them in my Top 4. 

10 hours ago, dmizers3 said:

Maybe they will, but that just might fall under the "careful what you wish for" category. 😉

Overconfident teams quickly find themselves down 42-14. Don't underestimate teams from The Fort. 

9 hours ago, Justasportsfan said:

Im happy to see them in 6a...ive stated b4..winning 6a is the creme de le creme..that 2015 team could have competed for the 6a title..heck the two teams after them were darn good as well..snider is a 6a program regardless of population..

Agree. I think the best scenario for Snider is alternating back and forth from 5 to 6. Best of both worlds. On one hand they get to play other schools with similar population. On the other hand they get to rumble with the absolute best. That being said, if I had to make a choice, it would be 6a. Nothing better to me than watching the Panthers line up against giants like Carmel and Penn.

Personally, I'd make NP a slight favorite. And that's a compliment to NP considering how good I think Dwenger is going to be. And Dwenger will be battle tested. The SAC is a beast this year.

3 hours ago, statmurp_10 said:

All SAC schools split the gate recepts according Confwerence by-laws

All SAC schools split the gate receipts according to conference guidelines and bylaws..

Did they not have the room to do better than 800 seats on the visiting side? That's going to hurt ticket sales when they play Snider, Homestead, Carroll, and Luers. It's a beautiful stadium and I'm happy for Dwenger, I just think it's going to hurt ticket sales for the big games.

45 minutes ago, Olympian06 said:

Might be the favorite? That’s comical... not even debatable they are the favorite. 

No one is saying they aren't the favorite. I'm just saying that when Dwenger beats them in the state finals, it won't be a "monumental" upset.

Does Dwenger share the gate with their opponent?

5 hours ago, Olympian06 said:

It would be a monumental upset if NP doesn’t win the 5A state title.. they are absolutely loaded this year. Heard that Hook kid is pretty good 😉. 

If Cathedral or Dwenger win, there won't be anything "monumental" about it. I think it's ok to say that NP might be the favorite. If Cathedral or Dwenger beat them it's because they are the better team................and it might happen.

5 minutes ago, Mayo77 said:

Just me but I'll never understand the fascination with H.S. poll.   Of course it's great for a school to get recognized but it does nothing for you when it counts.   Tournament time.   

Can't argue with that.

South Adams...............seven loses in a row to Adams Central. Is this the year? Keep an eye on the Starfires!

FW Wayne....................they loose a few key players, but they've improved in each of their first four seasons under Coach Moore. They will be a Top Ten team when it's all said and done with. The SAC is stacked this year. So even a three loss regular season should qualify them for 4a Top Ten status.

5 hours ago, Warren05 said:

Let me be the first to say it" polls mean nothing. It's just for the fans"

 

Now that that is out of the way I am of the opinion teams that win state the year before should always be ranked number 1 till they get knocked off

The Coaches Poll normally makes more sense than the AP Poll. Carmel must have a load of kids coming back to warrant being ranked above Warren Central. Personally, I'd rank the Warriors #1 until another team proves they are worthy of that position. 

My dark horse for the year it Homestead. I think when it's all said and done, they'll have received votes. 

Lafayette Jeff in the Top 10? Another team with many returning starters? 

7 hours ago, Temptation said:

I'm not denying the legacy of the Snider program as the numbers speak for themselves.  However, this conversation took a left turn.  The insinuation that Snider SHOULD move up and voluntarily play 6A was the main argument and it is still a ridiculous take, regardless of what the numbers say.  I truly get the whole "now that we are there, we have to embrace it" mentality but what else do you expect them to say?

Can they compete?  Most often, sure.  Should they have to?  A debate for another thread.

Opinion noted and respected. This would be a good stopping point for this thread. Thanks for your insight. 

On 8/4/2019 at 9:39 PM, Temptation said:

Nah, it’ll be “over” IF Snider gets to the regional...

That's a big "if". Homestead looks to put a pretty good football team on the field this year and are hungry for a victory over the Panthers.

On 8/4/2019 at 9:39 PM, Temptation said:

Carmel 42-13.

You may very well be right...............Carmel is a BEAST!

On 8/4/2019 at 9:39 PM, Temptation said:

I just hope folks don’t come on here claiming some sort of moral victory or talk about how the Panthers lost with “honor.”

That won't happen. The culture at Snider is to win. Twenty seven sectionals, 16 Regionals, 7 Semi States, & 2 State Championships. 

On 8/4/2019 at 9:39 PM, Temptation said:

You’d better believe the success factor will then be brought up once again and fairness will be questioned.

Not anyone from Snider and certainly not on this forum. 

Here's the thing Temptation. When playing in 6a, Snider will be a Top 15 team 30% of the time, Top 10 team 30%, Top 5 Team 30%, and a Top 2 team 10% of the time.That's pretty much a fact.  With that being said, 6a is a better class with Snider in it. 

On 8/3/2019 at 10:18 AM, Temptation said:

I can relate to that more than you think but the insinuation that a school should VOLUNTEER to play up a class in order to “play the best because WE’RE Snider” is still asinine.  Even more so when it’s coming from someone not affiliated with the team.

You’re trying to start a completely different argument and the two topics are not mutually exclusive.

I can teach you how to start a new thread if you’d like.  Let me know.

”Coached football for a couple years” lol.

It sounds like you are getting flustered because many on here disagree with your line of thought. You somehow think that you speak for EVERY high school football player in the state of Indiana. That's very irresponsible. The fact of the matter is, you DO NOT speak for every football player in the state, maybe just the ones you've had personal contact with. There are many on this topic who feel that there ARE players who are willing to accept the greater challenge. What is wrong with that? Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Not everyone wants a participation trophy. There are lots of kids who want to earn their trophy by playing teams that better challenge them. So what if the kids you know choose to take the easier path. Stop crucifying those who seek greater challenge. 

"Snider should volunteer to play up" is not asinine. It's just an opinion. At the end of the day, teams will play where the IHSAA tell them too. The IHSAA just told Snider that they are staying in 6a. It sounds like you want everyone associated with Snider to cry and whine about why they don't belong in 6a due to enrollment. Bottom line............they ARE in 6a and that's not going to change. Embrace the challenge and take on all comers. If a team from a school of 1800 is afraid to take on a team from a school of 5000, then they might as well turn in their equipment after week 9. Sorry if this offends you Temptation, but that's not the attitude at Snider and their goal this year is to win the 6a state championship. 

Again, good luck to the program you follow. Good luck to all. This debate is over. 

1 minute ago, Temptation said:

I work with 15-18 year olds daily in a diverse similar socioeconomic area compared to Snider.  I have developed a pretty solid rapport with my students.

What do you do for a living again?

That doesn't somehow make you an expert on how a kid who plays football for a school 100 miles away from you thinks. Young men where you are from might be taught about having things handed to them based on fairness. Some kids are taught to compete no matter what hand they are dealt. 

Anyway, your opinion is respected. Have a great night. 

3 minutes ago, Temptation said:

It’s much easier to state FACTS and speak rationally when you don’t...

It's one thing to state facts based on records, scores, and past history. It's another to pretend to know what an 18 year old at a high school more than 100 miles away from you is thinking.