Lysander

3 minutes ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Creampuffs? Many years the 3A state champion has beaten the 4A state champion. Memorial is on record as saying 3A has been harder than 4A.

That would require folks actually paying attention.

Apologies for really getting away from the subject....but since we have a whole week, I'm curious, just what years do you contend the top of 3A was better than 4A?  I have my own opinions.

25 minutes ago, Rodney said:

this isn't even a down year for 5a

nobody is saying there aren't a handful of good football teams in 5a this year,

but I'd still throw money behind EC and Chatard

to take the 5a title given the opportunity this year

and don't even get me started about 5a last season

because I have more than 1 or 2 teams from 3a/4a

that could have walked right into 5a for a free ring last year

 

 

so what we are left with is

5a is a decent class on the years

where snider decides they actually want to tackle the ball carrier

To repeat myself a week or so back....with a stolen quote

Genius is seldom recognized in its own time.

18 minutes ago, GoodKn19ht said:

Occam's Razor

Don't now the point you were making but I'm totally down with anybody referencing "Occam's Razor"....that's heavy duty.

6 minutes ago, BTF said:

I think Snider/Chatard would be a good game. Other than that, 5A would utterly smash 3A.  I think it would be a great game....Chatard has an opening Week 1, btw next year as I understand....I've heard 2 Indy area 6A teams starting with "C" mentioned as prospective opponents.   in the whole, 5 A smashes 3A (and 4A) but, I admit to not caring much about the bulk of teams in 3A and 4A.   I do truly believe that the top of 4A wins 5A most years unless Snider steps up.  3A sticks their nose in occasionally.  Snider, in my opinion, is (or should be) the gatekeeper in 5A

I think East Central might be slightly better than 5A's best. I'll know more after the weekend. But I'll take 5A's top six over 4A's top six. East Central is truly special this year.  Outside of East Central, 4A is not particularly special this year..I generally agree.  Last year was different...Roncalli and East Central were extraordinary. That said, I think EC cruises through 5A ....they are truly a Cincy area animal as to quality and a Top 4 team....even in OHIO.

Let's be honest, no one said anything about 5A being weak when Cathedral was there. I don't know what your definition of weak is, but I happen to think that Snider, Valpo, Merrillville, and Mishawaka are pretty good football teams from the north. The "5A is weak talk is overblown" and it's mainly because it's not dominated by an Indy team when Cathedral isn't there. It doesn't fit the "Indy is better than everyone else" narrative. Therefore it has to be weak.  As a, well. "non-lover" of Cathedral, I said from Day 1 that Cathedral never had it easier than when they ended up in 5A.  I declared 5A a piece of cake even then.  Although I have iived  in Indy for 40 plus years, my heart and soul is in a poor-ass southeast Indiana village of 500 people.  Hence my total respect for East Central and Lawrenceburg (and, maybe even, Batesville since Ron Raver's fortunate passing).  With that, Cathedral is 4A by student population...as was New Pal.  My point has always been that 5A was an abortive class with only a single "historic" football PROGRAM - Snider.  

All that said, I apologize for being a bit "chippy" today which is huge fun for me and I reserve the right to get chippy in this very next sentence.  I apologize to the extent needed...which I think is very little. I truly do respect Snider to be clear but have, in fact, truly, truly expected them to win 5A in most every year they found themselves in class.

That said, I will be rooting like Hell for them this weekend.

45 minutes ago, hhpatriot04 said:

The biggest thing that has separatedv the success of recent HH teams and those of the past is perfection. I was a bit worried that we had lost the recipe for success. We were winning but not dominating. I really like looking at the sidelines now and it is full of former coaches, teammates, and fellow alum. People like Coach Winchell coming back is the excellence needed and expected. (Yes watch out... HH will have a Goldsberry and Winchell on the same field for three years after this.)

There's no team I'd rather have to match up with in the state championship than Bishop Chatard. 

There is a certain “perfection” in the match that largely represents (in the broadest sense) the last 20-24 years in 3A….not to belittle many other great teams but it is hard to think of Chatard without also thinking of a Heritage Hills over the last 20 years.  

3 minutes ago, BTF said:

Lol, your true colors are really showing. It was just a matter of time.

I’ve always said this about 5A….nothing new here.  Do you really disagree?  That’s why I pick Snider every year…it should easy pickings for them.  

Yet it rarely seems to be.

Just now, BTF said:

Not every team has the luxury of playing down a class. 

….and Snider isn’t already?

5A is the literal “short bus” of Indiana HS football.

“Snider is relevant….almost every year.”

Not sure I can add to that.  Nothing like being relevant.

35 minutes ago, BTF said:

I love how you claim admiration for Snider, then throw their program under the bus with claims that you think are factual. You're only here to tout how great Chatard is, that's factual. I'm looking forward to my final assessments after the state finals are over. Everything until then is just speculation. There's twelve teams left that need to finish what they started. Until then, stop your 'Chatard is greater than thou nonsense.'

Err….I’m just looking SOLELY at CalPreps (I kind of rule out Sagarin these days).  Chatard is in the mix as a Top 10 team….it’s rare that a 5A team even sniffs that Top 10 is unless it’s a bumped 4A.  Regardless, the best Chatard can claim is 3A Champ…if they are so fortunate to do so.

I will admit some degree of bitterness as regards Snider because I pick them year after year, after year, after year, after year…ad nauseam to win 5A .  Outside of here, I oft complain to my football buddies that I listen too much to the Ft. Wayne fanboys when I pick Snider year after year……..AFTER YEAR.  To a point, unless a 4A team is involved, one just generally need show up to win 5A.

Still amazed Snider hasn’t actually been able to push up to 6A.  It’s been 11 years at this point….in the easiest Class in the State.

……and yet I pick Snider EVERY darn year.  

Dude, you should be thanking me for supporting a losing cause.

46 minutes ago, BTF said:

Everyone gets upset about hypothetical rankings. Who really cares. East Central has an opportunity on Saturday to crown themselves champions of 4A, and that's all that really matters.  After that, they can make the claim "we could." But in reality, we'll never know. East Central had a really good win over Moeller, and they want to use that as a basis to the claim "we're the best in Indiana." I get it, but when I compile my final ranking (which means nothing btw), body of work over the entire season is going to come into play. 

At the end of the day, yes, the Trojans are "pretty darn good." I think it's exciting for their program and fans that posters here on the gridiron are even mentioning them in the same sentence with Indiana's perennial powers. I'm looking forward to seeing them in person on Saturday. 

They are, almost undoubtedly, the best team from 1A - 5A.  We all pretty well know that much...at minimum (maybe Chatard might throw some shade) but I, legitimately, think they are one of the Top 2-3 teams in Indiana this year. 

Admittedly, they can only and potentially ever be 4A Champ.  With that, for the record, its hardly assumptive that 6A represents the best team in the State by default.  God forbid, we already know 5A rarely is the best team between 3A-5A..proved particularly in those 70% of the time years when a 4A team wins in 5A.

Heritage Hills is, frankly, one of the greatest 3A programs in Indiana HS football history.  Anyone unaware or disrespectful of this, is apparently one of those  "expert" Facebook posters....or much worse.

With that, this is a pretty darn good Chatard team.  Although known for their defense, they scored 4 TDs - 28 pts on only 9 offensive plays v. Knox  and 35 pts on 14 offensive plays v. Knox prior to half time. 

Everyone assumes another 4A sized INDY school (Cathedral) can arguably be the best team in the State almost ANNUALLY but hardly anyone is willing to grant that another 4A sized school (East Central) which is actually a Cincinnati suburban school (when you drill down just a bit....where some of the best football in the country is played) can't EVER possibly be the best team in Indiana...or, at least, contend for it. 

Let's be clear, CalPreps has them #2 in Indiana currently.

4A New Pal was more than likely the best team in the state just a few short years ago - Indy suburbs.  God forbid a smaller school outside of the Indy metro might be any good.

Most everything I read here (and from the peanut brains on Facebook) reflects the overall myopia towards 6A, Indy, Ft.Wayne and the Region (God forbid).

An added irony is that those in the Cincy Metro most likely chuckle at we Indiana hayseeds when we scoff that a Cincy suburban team...the best team in the Cincy tri-state (who's address just happens to be in Indiana) somehow just doesn't measure up.

42-14 Chatard

Final

Chatard        42

Knox             14

3:06 left in 4th

Chatard           35

Knox                  0

Half

Chatard will be receiving at the start of the 3rd Q

3 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

They play Lakota West should be a pretty interesting game. Lakota West's 2 losses were first 2 games of the season to Cincy St. X and Princeton (whom was undefeated and Lakota West got revenge in the playoffs). Moeller has 4 losses this year to Ben Davis, East central, Center Grove, and St. Edwards (all are still playing in their tournament this weekend).

I think Lakota knocked out Elder last week.

4 minutes ago, BendNotBreak said:

Not disagreeing w u...  1 or 2 seems right to me.... I thout they were heading in the 1pt direction as well... just trying to understand Why they reversed the trend  n went the other way??  Strikes me as.. Odd

Me too.  

29 minutes ago, BendNotBreak said:

Mayb it would make sense in some Sectionals.... say the Sec of Death? .. but im not so sure... would need to look at it State wide over  the classes... surely an anaylis? or found something to indicate this is the way to go?  But then again... it is the ISHAA.....

I think the justification for only needing 1 point to stay up is, generally, that if you are good enough to win a Sectional 50% of the time (once per 2 year cycle) thereby earning 1 point over a 2 year period then that would seem to demonstrate your ability to compete effectively in that class.  Again, just my opinion.

38 minutes ago, Southside said:

This change just moves it back to what it was before 2019.  Pre-2019 it was 3 points to stay up, then in 2019 they changed it to 2 points to stay up.

I thought it was 4 points originally to stay up…..then moved down to 2.

22 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said:

That boy named Cody 

He’s like Taylor Swift over on Facebook.  

22 minutes ago, slice60 said:

https://www.ihsaa.org/sites/default/files/documents/Tournament Success Factor.pdf

Looks like the IHSAA did sneak that change past everybody in July. Going forward, 0, 1 or 2 points earned in 2 years sends the school back down.

On a positive note, any Success Factor changes (up or down) will be implemented every year instead of after each 2-year window. This will put an end to smaller schools winning 3 straight State championships before being bumped up.

So your read on it (I have yet to closely read it) is that it “rolls” year to year and if over ANY two year period a team acquires 6 points they will bump up the following year.  If so, that is a very good change.

I do think, though, that they should have decreased the number to stay “up” to 1 point rather than increase it to 3 points.

As big of a deal as all of this is I’m still just gobsmacked it’s been so seemingly under the radar until now.

37 minutes ago, HHPatriots said:

When the thought of the game itself is unbelievably boring, this is the thread you get.

….and it’s not always like this every time the two “C” word Indy P/Ps are in the subject heading? 
 

It’s looking more like Facebook here every day.

6 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I'm an over achiever 🤣

Hmmmm….odd that the IHSAA seems to have quietly changed it to 3 points this time around.  I’m sure it’s a coincidence.

5 minutes ago, tango said:

That excerpt came from the 2023-2024 By-laws. I am embarrassed to say I was not aware of the change. 

Kind of earthshaking for it to have been changed with so little ballyhoo.  I know you may disagree but I thought it should have gone in the other direction.

1 minute ago, jets said:

 

Well - to answer @tango question as far as the difference - what I DID NOT see was a school with a large student population filled with free/reduced lunch #'s, students with IEP's, or a large EL population. 

Not saying a school can't be successful with those numbers, but just pointing out the differences and the challenges those can bring. 

And look - I'm not bashing P/P education or even their success. Good for them - but I just can't fathom how one can IGNORE those obvious factors and just point to "CYO" and a hard work ethic as reasons for success. 

I’m not necessarily arguing with you as much as I’m positing a question myself.  It can’t solely be explained by student body makeup alone when all the other sports are VERY normal.  Maybe it’s all about emphasis.  With that, I wholly disagree with a mandatory bump in all sports.  

The “targeting” of the Success Factor strikes me as the best way…it just needs more refining and the IHSAA needs to factor it into Sectional makeup. I’d start there.  The mandatory bump strikes me as overly simplistic and unfair to other sports AND unfair to P/Ps that aren’t that extraordinary in ANY sport.  It’s a sledgehammer in place of a scalpel.

I think it was Tom Sowell that saiid, “There are no solutions.  There are only trade-offs.”