Footballking16

Again, based on what? That Center Grove team was the “weakest” of its three consecutive state title teams. They were a small underdog in semi-state to a Cathedral team who beat them a few weeks earlier. Facts are: -Penn is the last non-Indy school to win a large class title. It happened 25 years ago -Since that Penn title, 4 teams from the North bracket have won state and they’ve all been Indy area teams (Carmel x3 and Fishers) -Non-Indy area teams in the state finals (North Bracket) have lost by these margins: Valpo 19, Snider 24, Penn 50, Snider 12, Penn 54, Snider 25, Penn 12, Penn 49, Carroll 26, Crown Point 28 for an avg 30ppg -Conversely, Indy area teams in the state finals (North bracket) have lost by these margins: HSE 35, Carmel 21, Carmel 3, Carmel 6 (OT), Carmel 1, Carmel 18, Carmel 20, Westfield 24, Westfield 6 for an avg 14ppg Facts are (at least in the last 25 seasons) if you aren’t an Indy area school, you don’t have a prayer of winning a state title. Not only that, you aren’t going to be competitive outside once in a blue moon. Why do you think that is?

Brownsburg was one of the 12 teams HSE beat that year (a team you said would have a better chance of competing in a state title despite playing in the same half of the bracket as Center Grove and Ben Davis). HSE beating 12 Indy-area 6A schools is far more impressive than Carroll beating 1 Indy-area 6A school regardless if that 6A school was HSE. Hence why I think HSE would have given Center Grove a better game than Carroll.

lol how? Citing strength of schedule?

Well no because I watched HSE go 12-0 playing one of the hardest schedules in the state that year. Had Carroll played a schedule that remotely resembled HSE’s with the same outcome then yeah, I’d be inclined to agree with you. Transitive property isn’t really a predictor in football.

Based on what? HSE went undefeated in the best conference in the state including a win over….Brownsburg.

Like I said, it doesn’t always play out that way. But if you were to ask me who would be more competitive against a CG, BD, WC type team in a championship game: Crown Point/Carroll or Hamilton County HCC school, I’m picking the Hamilton County school 10/10 times.

I mean Snider is 6-12 by my count against Indy-area schools in the last 20 years.

Westfield and Center Grove played to an absolute classic in the 2021 title game in one of the better 6A title games in history. I would expect HSE, Westfield, insert 6A Hamilton County to be more competitive in a title game against BD, Warren, CG, etc at least in theory, because all those Hamilton County schools play top end competition night in and night out. Not saying it would always play out that way and it certainly hasn’t based on some previous results but just an opinion I have.

Never been to Dwenger’s campus so can’t speculate, but there’s a massive ravine in a heavily wooded area on the north side of Cathedral’s practice field that makes installing bleachers next to impossible. And even in the event bleachers were to go up, it still doesn’t solve the parking issue. There isn’t enough parking spots for the 500-600 students that are eligible to drive to school, let alone an additional 3-4k people to attend a game. Parking on 56th street isn’t practical, let alone legal.

Being battle tested always helps but isn’t a pre-requisite formula for winning. Question: How many times in the last 15-20 years have you seen an undefeated (or close to it) team from the northern part of the state get blitzed and fold against a team from Indy because it’s their first real competition they’ve seen all year? Answer: a lot more times than a team like Carroll or Crown Point beating a team from central Indiana. Well which is it? Your last post literally contradicts this?

They’ve won 5 games in 3 years…

Those guys all need to form their own conference. I get it would be a logistical nightmare, but for football’s sake it needs to happen. Makes too much sense from a competitive standpoint. -Snider -Carroll -Homestead -Elkhart -Penn -Lake Central -Crown Point -Valpo

You’re being generous. Avon has been largely terrible the last 4-5 seasons. And that’s saying something given Avon would be one of the better teams in the DAC.

Or the randomness of a single elimination tournament…

Rebuilding is generous as Avon has been largely terrible for the last 4-5 years. Which is saying something because they’d be one of the better teams in the DAC.

Fluke to be in semi-state? They played nobody for 3 months, as typically is the case for whoever comes out of sectional 1/2.

Yes down 17-0 at half.

Crown Point won in 2OT man. Let’s not act like this was a woodshed game. Had CP dominated from start to finish this conversation likely isn’t taking place. And I’ve given you several practical reasons as to why Westfield wasn’t playing in their third straight 6A title and it adds up to just not being their “night”. Credit Crown Point for that.

Again, I don't think it's the difference in winning and losing. But most coaches are creatures of habit and their teams usually follow suit. It disrupts a normal routine, ie how they warm up, when they warm up, stuff that happens prior to taking the field, etc. Westfield didn't lose because of the bus ride, I think I've already said that.

If Westfield played Crown Point 10 times last year, how many do you think they win? I'll go with 7 based on Sagarin's projection leading up to the game. I trust his data a lot more than the transitive property or extrapolation based on a singular data point. But that's the beauty of a one off, single elimination game; throw the records out the window. They don't matter. I don't think it's the difference in winning and losing, at least in Westfield's case. But one team had to travel 2.5 in a bus and the other team didn't, so there is a "difference" regardless of how much it factored into the final outcome.

Going 1-0 against the HCC in a winner take all elimination game is entirely different than going 9-1 against the HCC which was Westfield's record against all HCC opponents.

Has anyone actually claimed that Westfield had an off-night? Rather I've seen several posters come to the consensus that Crown Point was the better team that night and deserved to win. However, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're the poster who claimed Crown Point would have been the second best team in the HCC based on one result? Again extrapolation to this degree doesn't always work the way you think it does.

Lol there's plenty of reasons why it could apply: 1) 1 team has to take a 2.5 hour bus drive to play 2) 1 team is dealing with wear and tear having played one of the hardest schedules in the state for 3 months straight while the other has had a relative coast all the way up to their biggest game of the year 3) Most importantly, we're talking abut 15, 16, 17 year old high school-aged kids where anything can happen on any given night. Crown Point undoubtedly deserved to win their game against Westfield, but extrapolating one result against the best team they had played to date all year doesn't always hold water.

Why? It's perfectly fine to use when applicable. Absolutely no shame in saying Crown Point was better than Westfield on that night. Do I think if Crown Point played a full HCC schedule and then Carmel, Noblesville, and HSE back to back to back weeks in the playoffs they go 13-1 last year? Absolutely not and I don't think many would argue that either. But that's irrelevant. In the playoffs, all CP had to do was be better than Westfield on that night. And they were. And that's all that matters.

Right. Hence why I have repeatedly called it an opinion.