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WWFan

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Posts posted by WWFan

    2024-25 and 25-26 Enrollments released by IHSAA

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    Looked back at some Mitchell numbers here is what I found

    19-20/20-21

    9th-119

    10th-109

    11th-121

    12th-113.      Total-462

    22-23/23-24

    9th-126

    10th-117

    11th- 110

    12th-100.   Total-453

    24-25/25-26

    9th-29

    10th-39

    11th-84

    12th-60.   Total-212

     

    Now I know I sold my house in mitchell back in August but I dont have that many damn kids. It's hard to see that big of a fall off. Thats 57 kids leaving from 10th grade to now 12th in 2 years. I'm sure a couple of bottom 2A teams (Perry Central) would like a recount at couple of schools. Haha

    • Like 1

    Hoosier Hills Conference

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    1 hour ago, JenCo1998 said:

    You lucked into Sturgeon.  Floyd was an afterthought in basketball since the late 80's until he arrived.  Without him the slide to irrelevancy will be fast.  You claim all those good genetics down there and yet Jennings County has more class basketball sectional Titles.  What gives?  

     

    You can win in football at Jennings County.  6-4 my senior year of 97-98.  some 5-5 and 6-4 teams since.  We have fielded a competitive team the last two years.  Punched you guys in 2022.  Don't claim you had injuries because we can say the same about this past season.  

    You have any idea why Newton would leave for Pekin?

    PLAC-MSC 2023

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    5 hours ago, WWFan said:

    Looking at DOE enrollment numbers doesn't look like much change. Some notes

    Charlestown in 4A. The area is continues to grow. Silver Creek looks no longer be lone 4A in MSC.

    Crawford County headed to 1A? Pretty close right now. Couple small classes they may be there in few years. 

    Forest Park in 1A. If Providence remains in 1A (listed as 2nd largest 1A on @HoopsCoach list) I'd imagine WW gets moved back to 47 and FP slides in 48.

    I didnt even realize it also list Salem in 2A. 

    PLAC-MSC 2023

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    Looking at DOE enrollment numbers doesn't look like much change. Some notes

    Charlestown in 4A. The area is continues to grow. Silver Creek looks no longer be lone 4A in MSC.

    Crawford County headed to 1A? Pretty close right now. Couple small classes they may be there in few years. 

    Forest Park in 1A. If Providence remains in 1A (listed as 2nd largest 1A on @HoopsCoach list) I'd imagine WW gets moved back to 47 and FP slides in 48.

    PLAC-MSC 2023

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    12 minutes ago, JQWL said:

    https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1bYMTnbetTf6n1WlRqudBX6WJ6X8YGQE&ll=38.581727596860034%2C-87.00908379867599&z=8

     

    I propose something similar to this every year. Going to keep at it until it happens. I'm a really big fan of what the PAC has done with their Big/Small Divisions. We should steal this idea. Unfortunately, Perry Central I'm sending you to the Small PAC but I think it would be a great fit. Almost everyone would be on Central Time. Almost everyone is right off 64. 

    MSC Big Division (Charlestown, Corydon, North Harrison, Brownstown, Scottsburg, Madison, Silver Creek)

    MSC Small Division (Eastern, Crawford County, Mitchell, Paoli, Springs Valley, West Washington, Salem)

    Everyone would have 6 conference games and 3 non-conference teams.

    I haven't figured it up but I bet the travel expenses would be less with this as well.

    Also, this would create a really fun 16 team conference for other sports with Austin and Orleans being non-football schools.

    I don't know much about wrestling but this might help the PLAC wrestling schools as well.

    Who all in PLAC has wrestling? I only know of WW and Mitchell. 

    Also under this proposal our schedule changes 0. So....not sure I feel 1 way or another. Haha

    The p/p hegemony continues unabated

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    11 minutes ago, foxbat said:

    So I'm not sure I qualify as the guy you are looking to answer.  My parents both had Catholic education all of their life with my mom finishing from a Catholic college and my dad leaving Catholic college for the military and then finishing from a public university.  I went to Catholic school through 6th grade and then did public school for everything else through college.  Two of my kids have attended Catholic school, but all have also been homeschooled and attended public schools ... my three girls from Jeff and my oldest son finishing at Harrison this year and the youngest probably attending Harrison part-time for high school.  Nonetheless, I've been thinking about this issue for a bit and frankly, haven't yet been able to come up with a set of items that works for the argument as to why p/ps, in general win, that can then be applied across the board.  What I have been leaning toward though is something akin to the idea that it's less categories and more programs.  When I look at the issue in short timeframes, like this thread does every season, it's fairly easy to generalize.  Even when several short-terms are pieced together, that generalization is easy, but some things don't seem to specifically match up with the general premise.  With that said, I'm coming at this very much so from an Indiana perspective with some additional insights from Texas and Louisiana; but mainly Indiana.

    The premise has often been, if there isn't some advantage, then how does x percentage win y percent of the time?  @Bobref has pretty much trademarked on GID that correlation doesn't necessarily indicate causation.  That got me to thinking through some things that, rather than focusing on the generalities and trying to make an all-encompassing theory, I'd look at some case studies and try to work from there.  Also, and I don't recall who it was that asked the question in another thread, but what got me thinking about this was a general question that was asked about 6A ... which was never really fully answered or even really solidified.  The question was, and is very similar to the question first posited in the thread, "Why is it that only four teams/programs have ever won 6A?"  It went on to, and rightly so, point out that there weren't similarities between the schools as there are differences in size, FRL items, communities, offenses/defenses, etc. It just kind of ended up as a mystery.  Four teams out of roughly 40 teams that have been in and out of 6A since its inception 11 years ago, roughly 10%, have not only won SOME of the titles, but ALL of the titles in that class.  What is the categorization that defines that four programs that you could "bottle" or is it something much more complex that can't fit on a bumper sticker?

    So let me start and see if the idea can perhaps be expanded by others with some real discussion on things.  The program that I'm most familiar with is LCC.  A couple of my kids attended Catholic school until the 3rd and 5th grade, but I coached in a youth program there for 18 seasons.  LCC first started playing ball back in 1958.  As seen in a couple of other threads currently in play, while LCC has a mystique about it that has it mentioned as a storied p/p powerhouse, it's really been about the last 15 years or so that LCC has probably earned that mystique.  It entered into a storied four-peat era back in 2009-2012, but prior to that, it was pretty much feast or famine according to season outcomes on Harrell's.  So I'll ask the first question that catches my eye with LCC and the statements often made about p/p in general.  If p/p have the automatic advantage, why did LCC have such gaps between its pre-four-peat timeframe?  Starting from 1976, until 2009 ... a 34-year period ... LCC got out of sectionals four times with gaps of 13, 10, and 6 years between each.  Incidentally, in every season for LCC, until 2021, when their season ended without a state title, it came at the hands of public schools ... only the last three seasons, in 2A, has LCC's season been ended by another p/p.  BTW, not just one p/p-killer public school, although Pioneer has a storied tradition for jousting with LCC, but over a dozen public schools have delivered deathblows to LCC's post season.  So if the idea that there's an inherent p/p advantage that LCC has, then why was it not there in force in the 34-year period and, probably more importantly, what were the MANY public schools doing that was causing LCC seasons to end really early in that timeframe?

    Of course, Noll is always mentioned.  Noll has a very storied past in that it never seemed to have any p/p mojo outside of 1989 when it won 3A.  Outside of that, according to Harrell's, Noll made it to a sectional championship only three times, never making it out of the sectional, and has been ousted in the first game of sectionals for the last decade ... all by public teams.  

    Ritter has an amazing past.  Five state titles with three in 1A and two in 2A.  For a long time, they were one of the poster children for p/p dominance, but now, closing in on a decade, no one whispers their name anymore.  Their last state title was in 2016; however, since then, they haven't made it out of a sectional.  They've also not even been close oustings.  The closest they got was this year's 23-point second sectional game loss to Eastern Hancock.  Maybe they have a string of "bad classes" ... the opposite of those "good classes" that public school lament might SF them unfairly into the next higher class ... but, for all of the talk about p/p mojo, four losing seasons in the last seven and three of the last four would seem to indicate that reloading, which is fairly automatic for p/p schools as I've been told, would seem worrisome and not in line with the meme.

    Heritage Christian ... an often forgotten p/p ... maybe because they aren't Catholic.  Only has around a two-decade history history according to Harrell's.  Has back-to-back state appearances in 2007-2008 with one blue ring.  Outside of that, two sectional titles in 2019-2020.  Has a mix of being ousted by both public and private schools.  Fairly good records, but not really drawing any of the p/p ire directed at the categorization as a whole.

    Culver Academy has been around since the mid-1980s, yet only has a pair of sectional titles spaced a decade and a half apart ... 2000 and 2015.  Again, almost never referred to or draws the ire of the p/p category and I've NEVER in over two decades of being in Indiana ever once heard anyone talk about the unfair advantage that Culver Academy has, not only as a p/p, but a p/p that has had students on its rosters from foreign countries!  Wanna talk about recruiting or being outside of a youth program circle?  Also, Culver Academy used to be Culver Military Academies, so I'm pretty sure that their lack of state titles wasn't due to not being competitive.

    Again, I don't have a specific answer to your question because the general answer that folks hope is given doesn't fit with all of the categorization.  Just the subset above actually refutes the generalized statements that tend to be made.  Also, I see the issue as being more complex than many of the bumper-sticker takes that have been bantered around.  I think there's something to be said for focused, driven groups in a school, but similarly, I would contend that Noll, LCC, and others have been equally focused, driven, etc., if the narratives are to be fully-embraced, but the outcomes don't seem similar.  With that said, what I think MAY be an issue is that there may be advantages that come from said make-ups, but that they aren't uniformly autonomous and that what's actually happening, which dovetails back into the 6A questions is that programs, and not necessarily categories, have figured out how to wield/harness the power as opposed to demographics.  I also believe that, and Ritter and LCC look like interesting cases for this, that while a program may be able to leverage some type of advantage, it isn't necessarily something that's inherent and automatic by birthright of categorization and, for example in the case of Ritter, it may be something that isn't eternal.

    If Linton and LCC ever play again you and @Miner_Pride will put up 10 pages alone. I do enjoy your prespective on PPs and Lafayette area. Just incase you wondered if anyone ever read it all. Now go ice those fingers....they probably bleeding

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