wabashalwaysfights

I do not feel the least bit bad or unintelligent for following the safety protocols put into place by our athletic trainer, guided by the hospital system he works through and our local school board, to safely conduct a season in within the normal calendar year. We have conducted these workouts for four weeks now and while I recognize that in other areas of the state they have felt it necessary to cease workouts for health concerns, our area, the West Central portion of the state, currently has not seen any such closures of workouts. My hope is that we continue to safely move forward as such and if that changes, we will change accordingly. Further, I, for one, do not feel that you are a "bad guy;" I believe your opinion to be misguided and ultimately incorrect. I take offense to your assertion that by nature of my opinion that I am either uncaring or unintelligent, but I don't think you are a "bad guy" no more than I think anyone else who is in favor a spring season is.

Well, he didn't even understand what list, so maybe a little. And you sound like someone who simply does not understand what you are asking 14-18 year olds to do by moving football to the spring. Also, as coaches, we do care. We care about our student-athletes' health and well-being. We care about our opponents in the same way. We care about our fellow coaches. That is why we adhere to a wide variety of health and safety protocols for a variety of issues, including transmission of any and all illnesses. This is why we are currently changing our coaching methods to include social distancing and the use of masks. This is why we are currently sanitizing any shared surfaces immediately after use. This is why we go through Covid pre-screenings every day before workouts. And we do these things regardless of our personal views on the pandemic because we care about our student-athletes. You can sit there and scream into the wind for a spring season all you want, that's fine, you do you, you can even continue to argue that a spring season would be safer, again that is fine. But I would respectfully ask that you do not dilute our efforts to protect our student-athletes by implying that we don't care, because we obviously do.

I'm firmly in the Pat McAfee camp that "kickers are people too" (at least I think he coined that phrase), but playing soccer and kicking for the football team, depending on the programs in question, really is not the same as playing another position on the field. For example, two of the less than 5 I know of was at my first coaching stop and were soccer players who kicked for us. The first was very good, and our special teams benefited greatly from him doing both. That said, he was with us for about 15-30 minutes a week prior to Friday night. I would work him out on his own before or after his practice, often times without even being with the rest of the team. Not ideal, but we made it work. Unfortunately, the first young man sustained a rather serious injury on the pitch (I think a compound leg fracture if memory serves) and he recruited another of his soccer buddies to take his place. Again, the second young man was very good and also was much younger, I think a freshman. (As a side note; by the time that freshman was a Senior, he was only playing football, and became a two way starter in addition to kicker. I had taken another job by that point, but one of my fellow coaches there said that the student-athlete just enjoyed football better and he didn't like splitting time.) I serve as our head track coach and have tried to work out the scheduling to have kids do both baseball/softball and track in the spring and it is a nightmare; still haven't been able to make it work. No animosity with the other coaches, kids are willing, dates just never match up. I've never seen the other two combos, so I don't know there.

Actually, at least in our area, this isn't as common as you'd think. I've lived/coached in this area for most of my life and can count on one hand the number of kids who played football and another fall sport in the same season.

Add "let me get this straight" to the list? Also, the phrase "...potentially the nation by that time will have a handle on covid..." is loaded in countless ways...

This actually makes a lot of sense. Most of the chain gangs I have seen are actually dads of current players, which would be... problematic perhaps... but from a "bubble" standpoint it makes sense.

This is correct.

Worth the grind that @psaboy referenced. You will lose some younger kids to physical and mental burnout. I know there is a strong contingent on here who thinks a spring football season would be fine, and it may be for some kids and programs, especially current Seniors, obviously, and bigger programs. But for underclassmen and especially smaller programs a spring season is just not that simple. Even with two shortened seasons, there's still a number of ancillary issues to sort through. Each season would need at least two weeks of practice before competition begins, how do football coaches handle the Spring Break crowd (which having coached in both the fall and spring seasons incandescent assure you is TOTALLY different from even your week long fall breaks), how do they handle the new dynamic with winter and spring coaches. Some consideration also needs to be given to how many student-athletes are not "football first" multiple sport athletes. If I am a "baseball first" guy who plays football because it is fun and doesn't conflict with baseball season too much, I am likely not playing football in the spring, even if the seasons are separated a la what Illinois is doing. If I sustain a mild injury in the fall, I have the winter months to rehabilitate that injury and be pretty close to full strength by tr he time baseball rolls around in the spring. The Illinois schedule takes that away: now if I sustain even a mild injury it has a big impact on my baseball season. Basketball teams may see this too where they lose guys off their roster who are "football first" and play basketball because it doesn't really effect their traditional football season. Bow prevalent would these issues be? Depends on the size of your school and how many multiple sport athletes you have. Also, if I am a baseball or track coach in Illinois I am ticked about their schedule. For some, and I would hope this is a small crowd, selfishly I just lost half of my summer. Next, I think their overall participation rates will be way down. This may not be for lack of interest but simply because most parents take time off from work in June for vacation and that time is often worked into their schedule months or years in advance. Many reserve their spots at vacation spots years in advance and I think this past spring break proved that people are going to vacation even in the middle of a pandemic. Baseball coaches specifically are going to have to contend with travel baseball now more than ever. Again, I am apparently on somewhat of an island here and I get that which is why I have refrained from posting about it as much. I could be totally wrong; things could go off without a hitch in Illinois, Virginia, and New Mexico. Participation may actually go up, coaches may work in perfect harmony, rainbows, unicorns, etc, but I just don't see it. I want football, I think it is safe to play now, I do not want our seniors to miss their last season, they have definitely earned it, but not at the expense of the long term health of the game. Fully admit I may be wrong, but there it is.

This. This right here. Apparently I may be in the minority on the whole "let's move to the spring," but I'm telling you, medium to long term I just don't think it will be worth it. I want kids to play, no doubt, but I think we're going to see a lot of burn out in places that go with a spring option.

It COULD be an advantage for SOME. I know we certainly have some students who have enough self-discipline to handle it, but not near enough for a virtual option to be successful in the long term in the way you describe. I have been working on my MA in my subject are so that I can continue to teach my Dual Credit course. I take one course per semester (fall, spring, and summer) through a ISU's distance program. It is certainly a blessing, the virtual nature of the class, because otherwise pursuing this degree would not be possible. That said, I have the self-discipline as an adult to make it work, I do not think the same would be the case for me when I was 17. I see where you are coming from and what you suggest works well on paper, but the reality is much different I fear...

Pound the over...

I'm not exactly sure what this is supposed to mean. I asked a legitimate question about the situation many families find themselves having to deal with in the face of a potential start of the school year with virtual education. The situation for many families I spoke of is vastly different now than it was in the spring. Nearly all employment other than essential workers was put on hold for weeks at a time last spring, I'm specifically speaking to a number of factories in the area. Those same employers are no longer shut down now. I also would, unfortunately, defer to the below... Well said Coach. Even if a football season is delayed or, unfortunately, not in the cards, being physically in school removes these kids from those situations for at least 8 hours out of the day. It is sad, but the reality.

And again, I agree with you, as I've said no less than twice but I'll pass your advice... I'm sure it will be most helpful...

Again, agreed but two things: first, how idealistic of you to think that all take the measure of individual responsibility they should (not all do, sadly). Secondly, you say they should "do the same thing they do for childcare when school is not in session," and the reality is, at least in some cases that this simply is not possible. I know a lot of parents who utilize summer park programs, older student relatives (high school age cousins, for example), and older family members to help pick with childcare in the summer months when school is not in session. These are not people who view the school system as a "babysitter," but the fact is that they rely in the scheduling of their work on their child being at school during the regular school day and in the regular school year. Summer park programs will not be in session (and many are ending early in my area to allow for "self-quarantine" prior to the school year) and if proper "social distancing" is to be followed, older school age family or elderly family members would not be tenable either.

Agreed, but the reality is that schools need to take that into consideration when making their decisions. We can't live with blinders to this issue on...

I don't claim to know this, but my guess would be that he was privately tutored before Covid. Again, I'm probably am wrong, but that would be my educated guess. Question to those of you who feel that we should aim for all, or even partial, virtual learning; what about students whose parents (either a single parent or both parents) are working and childcare is an issue? I don't know that this question has been asked on this thread, it's hard to keep track.

I am not suggesting that at all. I merely suggest that, whether the cliche is true or not, people often have a hard time believing what they do not personally see. Data is great, science is wonderful, but after a while, if you are not personally effected by something the the data and science claims is dangerous, that data and science simply becomes numbers on a piece of paper. It begins to lack meaning.

So are you suggesting that we completely ignore our personal experience?

I was just reading @Coach Nowlin's comments on bringing politics into every discussion on this board so in light of that,cI will disregard your second line of questioning. Not trying to dodge, just following @Coach Nowlin's lead on this one, it is likely more productive in the long run. To your first line of questioning, I don't know that I would go so far as to suggest that Americans "have lost our way on caring about others." Europeans and Americans are fundamentally different on a number of levels, so in many ways I think when you attempt to compare the two on any level you're comparing applies to oranges.

I disagree. Unfortunately, whether any of us like it or not, oftentimes that is the human condition: "malady x" has not effected me so I disregard it. Substitute whatever you want for "malady x," and there could literally be hundreds of possibilities. An unfortunate example that comes to mind is driving under the influence. I saw a speaker at a school convocation once who spoke to this. He talked about how he knew it was dangerous to get behind the wheel while under the influence, but he had done it so many times and no one ever got hurt, so why should this time be any different? Unfortunately, he was involved in a wreck that claimed a young women's life and he paid the price (a hefty jail sentence plus the guilt that comes with that). Now he works to educate people about the dangers of driving under the influence, but does that mean that people will stop the practice? Statistics tell us far from from it. We can disagree about the nature of this virus, how dangerous it is or isn't, but the fact is my friend that whether an individual knows someone who has been effected by this or has been effected by it personally does indeed matter.

While I sympathize for those who have been effected, this line of reasoning works both ways. You know at least two people who have passed, potentially more who have tested positive: I personally do not know a single person who has even had a confirmed case of this virus, let alone passed from it. That includes social media. That can obviously change, and I hope it doesn't obviously, but unfortunately unless/until it does that lack of personal connection, if you will, makes it really hard to completely understand this level of reaction. And yes, I watch the news, depressing as it is, but what qualifies as "concern worth" seems to change so fast that without some personal connection, which you appear to have, it's really, really hard to understand some days.

This. This right here...

Timing is everything...

Low hanging fruit...

This is correct and also another reason that I'm glad that all indications are that Indiana won't be pushing football to the spring. Ultimately I'm guessing that having student-athletes, coaches, etc. sign waiver forms is going to be a no brainer, if it isn't already, and will likely be even more widespread by the end of the month.