More adult violence over youth sports.

[Muda69]

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2024/10/06/two-men-shot-over-youth-football-at-indy-cardinal-ritter-high-school/75543367007/?tbref=hp

Quote

Two men were shot following an argument over a youth football game at a northwest Indianapolis high school Saturday night, police say.

Police responded to a shooting at Cardinal Ritter High School around 10:18 p.m. Saturday and took two men with gunshot wounds to Eskenazi Hospital, according to the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department.

IMPD officer Tommy Thompson told IndyStar early Sunday that an argument broke out between the opposing teams' fans and coaches in the parking lot following the game.

Police have yet to identify the shooter or shooters. One man was in critical condition Saturday night while the other is reported to be stable, IMPD says. No children were harmed in the shooting.

Tabatha Hardiman, 41, is a leader of the Indy Firehawks, the losing team in Saturday's game. Despite the violence, Hardiman led the Firehawks program in hosting a previously planned community giveaway of food, clothing and household items on Sunday afternoon at the southeast side park where they practice.

One of the Firehawks' top coaches, Trevon Smith, was injured in the shooting. Smith successfully made it through surgery Sunday, coach Javell Davis told IndyStar.

Players like Hardiman's 10-year-old son, look up to Smith as their protector, she said. The program has more than 100 players since it was founded three years ago.

"When I talk to my son about it, he's just like, 'He's gonna be OK. We'll see him Tuesday,'" Hardiman said. "He's just anxiously waiting for his coach to come back to the field."

Part of the playoffs in Indianapolis' Next Level Youth Sports League, Saturday's game featured players 11 or younger. Coaches and parents said trash talk that's common during such games escalated to the shooting in the parking lot.

"These youth sports are very competitive," Hardiman said. "To my understanding, it was just competitive talk that went a little too overboard."

Coaches like Davis were there Sunday grilling hotdogs and throwing around a football with the Firehawks players while they awaited more news about their injured coach. The organization's purpose goes far beyond football, Davis said, which is why leaders thought it was crucial to go on with Sunday's event and counter the negativity.

"We teach them responsibility," Davis said. "We teach them guys a lot of integrity — even when nobody's looking, do the right thing."

The other man injured in the shooting has not been publicly identified. IndyStar has reached out to others involved to learn more about this shooting.

Any of our GID members have a solution to this seemingly escalating problem in your sports? 

 

[Coach Nowlin]

I am fortunate enough to referee every Rensselaer Rampage game we host at our field this fall, its been awesome, I will tell you this much: 

Opposing Coaches, I have had 2 issues where coaches, one was 3rd/4th grade coach and another was 5/6th grade coach....

The way the reacted when they didn't get a call they thought was right was embarrassing.....one guy started literally jumping up and down and spinning yelling NO WAY NO WAY, and guess what, his players that play and the next play when I threw a flag for face masking (a no doubter) his players started yelling and acting the same way.   I told DAD COACH, this is your fault, look at how these young kids are now yelling and speaking.....I wonder why that is??   They make a goal line stand and that Same Coach started acting like they just won a major championship, I started barking at him, Congratulations on your BIG TIME GOAL LINE STAND, that WHOLE SEQUENCE you taught you kids how important it is to act like a fool and not worry about important parts of the game.  Keep up the good work coach...... Now the other coach, he saw it all go down, he appologized to me, blah blah blah.....  Wouldn't you know it said team won 6-0 and in classic form, dumb dumb coach comes to me after the game,  I am sorry, blah blah blah, so I calmly said, You are only telling me that because you guys 1.  Won, and 2. I made you look like a fool on other occasions tonight based on how you choose to act in front of kids.    I told him we are in the KID BUSINESS, not winning like that business and probably needs to reevaluate what his goals as a coach is in 5/6th grade football.   

Same team came back last week, not a PEEP from him all night long.   

 

Now onto the situation in Indy:   Adults again FAILED KIDS.   What exactly is "competitive talk gone too far" when the kids are 11-U.   Garbage, all of that .    So no wonder it got real stupid after what sounds like a close game.....

As the guy in charge of our games on the field, the SLIGHTEST moment of a player getting out of line, I immediately stop, talk to the kid/coach and tell em if it happens again, yellow coming out and taking a seat.    We also reward 1 player from each team a Sportsmanship Medal, I watch and see how all the young kids interact and play the game, and then give the name to press box, where they announce it and I give the medal to visiting team with some good things that I saw that had nothing to do with X/O's and scoreboard.   

Maybe if places like this league in INDY think of it that way vs looking to earn Highlight love that they think will turn into a scholarship they could avoid such embarrassing and dangerous situations.  

[Impartial_Observer]

I work closely with our local youth league, the crap you deal with…… you are a youth league coach, run the O you’re told to run, run the D you’re told to run, you’re job is to teach what the HC wants taught. We’re not going to build a statue if you go undefeated in 5/6 football. How many kids show up next year and what do the know, that’s how you’ll be judged as a youth league coach. 

[Coach Nowlin]

We have a talented athlete in 4th grade, those coaches are doing a great job with him, he gets about 5 carries a game if he is popping long runs because he has been around sport and is FAST, the rest of the team is developing because they are touching the ball and isn't just toss sweep LEFT/RIGHT to their fastest kid......

[Coach Nowlin]

On 10/7/2024 at 9:08 AM, Muda69 said:

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2024/10/06/two-men-shot-over-youth-football-at-indy-cardinal-ritter-high-school/75543367007/?tbref=hp

Any of our GID members have a solution to this seemingly escalating problem in your sports? 

 

@Muda69   Question, have you changed your stance on sports being a function of Public School offerings?   I know we both have been around here for better part of 2 decades, I remember some posts where you advocated for youth sports to stay out of the Public School Domain, citing money allocation etc.   I think if that is the model you support then you get these type of HERO DAD COACHES who are not affiliated with schools and do not get held to higher standards.   

[Bash Riprock]

21 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I work closely with our local youth league, the crap you deal with…… you are a youth league coach, run the O you’re told to run, run the D you’re told to run, you’re job is to teach what the HC wants taught. We’re not going to build a statue if you go undefeated in 5/6 football. How many kids show up next year and what do the know, that’s how you’ll be judged as a youth league coach. 

Used that line myself as a long time youth football volunteer.  I have reminded coaches and PARENTS again and again, there will be no no college coaches here this season recruiting any kids.

[Muda69]

2 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

@Muda69   Question, have you changed your stance on sports being a function of Public School offerings?   I know we both have been around here for better part of 2 decades, I remember some posts where you advocated for youth sports to stay out of the Public School Domain, citing money allocation etc.   I think if that is the model you support then you get these type of HERO DAD COACHES who are not affiliated with schools and do not get held to higher standards.   

No, that stance has not changed.  

As for HERO DAD COACHES it is up to the youth leagues to better vet and hold these coaches to a higher standard. I haven't heard much about these kind of incidents occurring at PAL or Catholic run youth leagues, do you?

I don't know what kind of youth league this Indy Firehawks team was affiliated with, if any.  I suspect it was probably one of these independent travel-type teams, which is pretty much the wild west when it comes to youth sports.    

I also think that with the growth of "lay coaches" in middle and high school sports it's only a matter of time before you see one of these HERO DAD COACHES stalking the sidelines of a field or court near you.

 

[Coach Nowlin]

I believe the Firehawks are some sort of "travel" team.....   All Gross 

 

As far as your initial post, and then follow up post,   which one is it?   

1.  Seemingly Escalating 

or

2.  Or just one ridiculous situation locally ? 

 

I am sure there are other instances of fist fights, weapons, nationwide, not sure it is at the level of Seemingly Escalating 

Like you said, you don't see these issues with PAL, CYO, CG Batom , or Rensselaer Rampage, just to name 4 

 

[Muda69]

5 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I believe the Firehawks are some sort of "travel" team.....   All Gross 

 

As far as your initial post, and then follow up post,   which one is it?   

1.  Seemingly Escalating 

or

2.  Or just one ridiculous situation locally ? 

 

I am sure there are other instances of fist fights, weapons, nationwide, not sure it is at the level of Seemingly Escalating 

Like you said, you don't see these issues with PAL, CYO, CG Batom , or Rensselaer Rampage, just to name 4 

 

#1.    With young teachers continuing to flee government education in Indiana (1376 current teaching opening at Indiana schools:  https://app.hirenimble.com/jobs/state/in ) the need for non-teacher, non-tenured lay coaches will only become bigger and bigger.  Good luck to the AD's trying to vet & control these potential coaches whose livelihood also doesn't depend on having a job at that school. 

 

 

[Coach Nowlin]

See now talking 2 separate things my friend

Agree, huge shortage in Indiana (and other places) for public school educators

However, you started the thread about YOUTH Sport violence, which was with some independent travel football team of 11U players, but now you have inferred that this problem will be there for schools that utilize the extra curricular activities such as athletics will soon having these things happen on what was the phrase....oh yea, Seemingly Escalating ways.   

I do not see how one can conclude that, but that's ok.   Yes, more lay coaches isn't necessarily the best option, but doesn't mean every school that has Lay coaches bc of teaching shortage is going to have violence at home games.   

There is a BIG BIG BIG difference on MANY fronts from Travel ball folks and school sponsored ECA.   You know it, I know it, and I would say 99.5% of this online community recognizes that as well. 

[Muda69]

17 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

However, you started the thread about YOUTH Sport violence, which was with some independent travel football team of 11U players, but now you have inferred that this problem will be there for schools that utilize the extra curricular activities such as athletics will soon having these things happen on what was the phrase....oh yea, Seemingly Escalating ways.   

Yes, I firmly believe such incidents will escalate, be it in "travel ball" or traditional school sponsored extra-curricular sports activities.  

 

[Coach Nowlin]

9 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yes, I firmly believe such incidents will escalate, be it in "travel ball" or traditional school sponsored extra-curricular sports activities.  

 

I disagree, but just curious, what is your time frame of said escalation?   1 year?  5 years?  10 years?  etc

[Muda69]

Just now, Coach Nowlin said:

I disagree, but just curious, what is your time frame of said escalation?   1 year?  5 years?  10 years?  etc

I'll just split your difference and say 5 years.