Offsetting Penalty Question

[Indiansreloaded]

Mississinewa vs Delta game had a strange offsetting penalty call.  Misssissinewa RB had very large gain and during the run a Mississinewa player was flagged for a facemask.  At the end of the play Delta was flagged for late hit out of bounds.  Mississinewa RB ran the ball to inside the 10 yard line.  Original line of scrimmage was around their own 40 yard line.  Officials called the penalties offsetting and placed the ball at where the RB went out bounds inside the 10 yard line and 1st down.  I thought if the penalties were offsetting that the ball would be placed back at the original line of scrimmage and replay the down.  So, if they were offsetting why was the ball placed where the play stopped?

[Yuccaguy]

11 minutes ago, Indiansreloaded said:

Mississinewa vs Delta game had a strange offsetting penalty call.  Misssissinewa RB had very large gain and during the run a Mississinewa player was flagged for a facemask.  At the end of the play Delta was flagged for late hit out of bounds.  Mississinewa RB ran the ball to inside the 10 yard line.  Original line of scrimmage was around their own 40 yard line.  Officials called the penalties offsetting and placed the ball at where the RB went out bounds inside the 10 yard line and 1st down.  I thought if the penalties were offsetting that the ball would be placed back at the original line of scrimmage and replay the down.  So, if they were offsetting why was the ball placed where the play stopped?

Sounds like the face mask should have been enforced at the end of the run...then check the line to gain for the down.

Following that, you have a dead ball Personal Foul against Delta that ALSO should have been enforced Following the mark off of the 1st penalty.

If the line to gain is past the 1st down then that is where the ball is 

These are NOT offsetting penalties!  They are BOTH enforced.  And it could *i guess be possible for the ball to wind up at the spot of the original end of the run...but I highly doubt it.

[Indiansreloaded]

21 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

Sounds like the face mask should have been enforced at the end of the run...then check the line to gain for the down.

Following that, you have a dead ball Personal Foul against Delta that ALSO should have been enforced Following the mark off of the 1st penalty.

If the line to gain is past the 1st down then that is where the ball is 

These are NOT offsetting penalties!  They are BOTH enforced.  And it could *i guess be possible for the ball to wind up at the spot of the original end of the run...but I highly doubt it.

I thought that the facemask should have been marked off from the spot of the penalty and then the late hit out of bounds be marked off.  The run was around a 50 yard run from the original line of scrimmage.  The facemask was down field maybe 10-15 yards from the line of scrimmage.  The final spotting of the ball where the RB went out of bounds is what is strange.  Mississinewa ended up scoring a few plays after this.  

[Yuccaguy]

49 minutes ago, Indiansreloaded said:

I thought that the facemask should have been marked off from the spot of the penalty and then the late hit out of bounds be marked off.  The run was around a 50 yard run from the original line of scrimmage.  The facemask was down field maybe 10-15 yards from the line of scrimmage.  The final spotting of the ball where the RB went out of bounds is what is strange.  Mississinewa ended up scoring a few plays after this.  

Penalty (defensive) is ADDED to the end of the run....  

[JustRules]

These would only offset if they were both dead ball fouls. The ball would next be snapped at the succeeding spot (end of the run).

[Yuccaguy]

2 hours ago, Indiansreloaded said:

I thought that the facemask should have been marked off from the spot of the penalty and then the late hit out of bounds be marked off.  The run was around a 50 yard run from the original line of scrimmage.  The facemask was down field maybe 10-15 yards from the line of scrimmage.  The final spotting of the ball where the RB went out of bounds is what is strange.  Mississinewa ended up scoring a few plays after this.  

@Indiansreloaded

I am sorry, I though that the initial facemask penalty was against the defensive player..... So let me change the administration of the situation

Yes, the penalty for facemask which was an OFFENSIVE penalty would be marked off at the spot of the foul.  THEN, check for the line to gain.  If it was a 1st down...  Ole Miss would have a 1st down, then you would mark off the dead ball foul for the late hit and it would be a 1st down at that spot following the late hit.

My game ended rather quickly, and I was trying to answer the question in the parking lot.....  DOH!  

Edited November 2, 2024 by Yuccaguy

[Indiansreloaded]

8 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

@Indiansreloaded

I am sorry, I though that the initial facemask penalty was against the defensive player..... So let me change the administration of the situation

Yes, the penalty for facemask which was an OFFENSIVE penalty would be marked off at the spot of the foul.  THEN, check for the line to gain.  If it was a 1st down...  Ole Miss would have a 1st down, then you would mark off the dead ball foul for the late hit and it would be a 1st down at that spot following the late hit.

My game ended rather quickly, and I was trying to answer the question in the parking lot.....  DOH!  

Where the ball was spotted was 30+ yards beyond the line to gain and 20+ yards from where the offensive facemask occurred.  The officials spotted the ball after the penalties where the play ended, as in where the defensive foul occurred.  They didn't mark anything off.

[Bobref]

Let’s see if we can’t wrap this up. 

The assumption is that the facemask foul by A took place behind the spot where the ball became dead when the runner went out of bounds.

First, we address the live ball foul. Go back to the spot of the facemask foul, and go back 15 yds. assuming it was a personal foul and not a 5 yd. facemask. 

Second, now that we’ve enforced the penalty for the live ball foul, we look at the chains. If the ball is beyond the line to gain, it’s a 1st down. If the ball is not beyond the LTG, then the down counts.

Finally, we address the dead ball foul. It’s 15 yds. against Team B, enforced from the spot after the live ball foul’s enforcement. If that takes the ball beyond the LTG, then it’s a 1st & 10 for Team A there. If it’s not beyond the LTG, play the next down.

Regardless, the clock will start on the snap.

[fbofficial]

On 11/2/2024 at 9:28 AM, Bobref said:

Let’s see if we can’t wrap this up. 

The assumption is that the facemask foul by A took place behind the spot where the ball became dead when the runner went out of bounds.

First, we address the live ball foul. Go back to the spot of the facemask foul, and go back 15 yds. assuming it was a personal foul and not a 5 yd. facemask. 

Second, now that we’ve enforced the penalty for the live ball foul, we look at the chains. If the ball is beyond the line to gain, it’s a 1st down. If the ball is not beyond the LTG, then the down counts.

Finally, we address the dead ball foul. It’s 15 yds. against Team B, enforced from the spot after the live ball foul’s enforcement. If that takes the ball beyond the LTG, then it’s a 1st & 10 for Team A there. If it’s not beyond the LTG, play the next down.

Regardless, the clock will start on the snap.

Why would the down count if a live ball accepted penalty on the offense? 

[Bobref]

20 minutes ago, fbofficial said:

Why would the down count if a live ball accepted penalty on the offense? 

You’re correct, the down would not count so long as the facemask penalty is accepted.